Dragon Ball: Finite Universe

[Omegabronic]

also pretty sure this has passed the time mark and can now be applied, of the top of my head broly dbz and goku toei would need to have their high 3-A removed, we also need someone to recalc the speed value for the dbs chars

 

[BetterThanYou]

just ask staff for permission, if they give he can do as he pleases, we also had a rule against infinite universe, yet we all knew what happened don't we?

Not the same thing. Infinite uni was passed by a single before and was rejected multiple times before that. 3-A universe has been rejected multiple times already. I don't belive it is happening anytime soon. But you guys can do as you please. Btw I was against infinite universe from the begining due the speed scaling issues it brought.

 

[Omegabronic]

Not the same thing. Infinite uni was passed by a single before and was rejected multiple times before that. 3-A universe has been rejected multiple times already.

you just described the same situation twice

I don't belive it is happening anytime soon. But you guys can do as you please. Btw I was against infinite universe from the begining due the speed scaling issues it brought.

fair enough i guess

 

[GarrixianXD]

I mean, if the OP presumed that every supporting detail towards Dragon Ball's infinite universe is a hyperbole or metaphor I could also argue that Bulma's statement was also an allegory. Since a figuration of speech as "edge of the universe" could also be a non-literal speech.

 

[GarrixianXD]

you just described the same situation twice


fair enough i guess

Outlier CRT go buuurrrrr

 

[Nostredam]

I mean, if the OP presumed that every supporting detail towards Dragon Ball's infinite universe is a hyperbole or metaphor I could also argue that Bulma's statement was also an allegory. Since a figuration of speech as "edge of the universe" could also be a non-literal speech.

? Lol

第7宇宙にある超ドラゴンボールを探す為に超ドラゴンレーダーを完成させたブルマは、探すには宇宙の中心に向かわなくてはならない。そう考えてジャコを強引に呼び出したが、とんでもなく広い宇宙の中心なんかに行ける訳がないと呆れるジャコ。しかしブルマにビビらされたジャコは、何でも知っているズノー様という人物に聞いてみると良いと代案を持ちかける。早速、ズノー様の星に向かうブルマとジャコ。だが、ズノー様との面会は、予約制で、順番が回ってくるのは7年後だという！果たして、二人の面会は叶うのか！？

Bulma, who has completed the Super Dragon Radar to search for the Super Dragon Balls in Universe 7, must head to the center of the universe to find them. Thinking so, he forcibly summons Jaco, but Jaco is amazed that there is no way he can go to the center of the vast universe. However, Jaco, who is terrified by Bulma, offers an alternative, saying that he should ask Mr. Zuno, who knows everything. Bulma and Jaco immediately head for Zuno's star. However, meeting with Mr. Zuno is by appointment only, and it is said that it will be seven years before the turn comes around! Will the meeting between the two be successful!?

 

[GarrixianXD]

also pretty sure this has passed the time mark and can now be applied, of the top of my head broly dbz and goku toei would need to have their high 3-A removed, we also need someone to recalc the speed value for the dbs chars

Why a recalc for speed? It's irrelevant with the infinite universes heck Champa and Vado's speed feat contributes to infinite by crossing space-time from universe 6 to 7 (guess someone forgot a crt about it). Simply the DBS character's speed doesn't seem to be updating with the cosmology and tiering therefore a speed recalc wouldn't be necessary at all.

 

[GarrixianXD]

? Lol

Having a centre =/= having an actual edge

A centre could be determined by the observer's spatial location and properties anyways

 

[Nostredam]

Having a centre =/= having an actual edge

A centre could be determined by the observer's spatial location and properties anyways

So basically your conclusion is that the context of the scene means that "edge of the universe" could be a non-literal speech, while the "center" part can't. Lmfao

 

[BetterThanYou]

So basically your conclusion is that the context of the scene means that "edge of the universe" could be a non-literal speech, while the "center" part can't. Lmfao

He didn't say that. He said that if all those High 3A statements are hyperbole then by this stance, bulma's statement and any statement that includes a "center" or "edge" can be hyperbole too.

 

[CloverDragon03]

By how much? Without knowing that we have nothing to do

This means we know it's over 1/10 the size of our own universe

I don't think you realize that this is still an absolutely massive space-time. So yes, it's 3 space-times, not 2, and will continue to be as such

 

[GarrixianXD]

So basically your conclusion is that the context of the scene means that "edge of the universe" could be a non-literal speech, while the "center" part can't. Lmfao

I never concluded the centre of the Universe is a literal speech

The issue is that we have proof the space-time continuum is in-fact infinite, hence, the Universe having "an edge" could and most likely, be non-literal

 

[GarrixianXD]

This means we know it's over 1/10 the size of our own universe

I don't think you realize that this is still an absolutely massive space-time. So yes, it's 3 space-times, not 2, and will continue to be as such

The actual size of the Universe is unknown anyways... not to mention countless physicists concluded the universe as infinite

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

i agree with you on that, but i never said just because it uses the kanji says infinite, it is, you quoted me on something i never even said. And read the whole argument, i was using the kanji infinite as supporting evidence. Like how it aligns with infinite galaxies, and it doesn't have to be poetic just because todd said so, and how i haven't actually seen any infinitely expanding statements, only straight up infinite.

The context of what you said, specifically the "That doesn't mean it has to be poetic, especially when it uses the actual kanji "無限" which literally means infinite." Does mean what you said bro. "You quoted me on something I never even said" There is also something called indirect quoting, which means what saying what somebody said but in different words (meaning is still the same)

Either way, the way you said it does imply that it having the Kanji of infinite somehow makes it literal.

 

[Nostredam]

He didn't say that. He said that if all those High 3A statements are hyperbole then by this stance, bulma's statement and any statement that includes a "center" or "edge" can be hyperbole too.

The High 3-A statements are "hyperbole" because the kanji used in some (not all) of them is figurative. Bulma's statement has nothing to do with that.

I never concluded the centre of the Universe is a literal speech

The issue is that we have proof the space-time continuum is in-fact infinite, hence, the Universe having "an edge" could and most likely, be non-literal

Space-time continuum is Tier 2 (start with Low 2-C). This thread is about an Tier 3 ranting, dude.

 

[Kroneii1]

I don't know why the mention of the center of the universe is a topic of debate, an infinite universe can have a center, which is basically any point in space.

 

[BetterThanYou]

This means we know it's over 1/10 the size of our own universe

I don't think you realize that this is still an absolutely massive space-time. So yes, it's 3 space-times, not 2, and will continue to be as such

Isn't Kaio realm 1/10th macroverse sized? The macroverse that includes 2 spacetimes(living world and after life). 2 spacetimes divided by 10 should still be tier 2 right? Since I have heard that you can't divide or multiply in tier 2.

 

[Kroneii1]

Isn't Kaio realm 1/10th macroverse sized? The macroverse that includes 2 spacetimes(living world and after life). 2 spacetimes divided by 10 should still be tier 2 right? Since I have that you can't divide or multiply in tier 2.

Yes

 

[Omegabronic]

This means we know it's over 1/10 the size of our own universe

I don't think you realize that this is still an absolutely massive space-time. So yes, it's 3 space-times, not 2, and will continue to be as such

not how it works, it needs to at least be the size of the observable universe for it to count for anything in tier 2-C, that is how it is

Why a recalc for speed? It's irrelevant with the infinite universes

read the title of the thread, 48hrs passed, it is accepted as not infinite anymore, since the current calc uses a model that was recently agreed as not being in scale, we now need a re calc of it

heck Champa and Vado's speed feat contributes to infinite by crossing space-time from universe 6 to 7 (guess someone forgot a crt about it)

going from one space time to another is dimensional travel and not speed at all, recent changes made sure of that

. Simply the DBS character's speed doesn't seem to be updating with the cosmology and tiering therefore a speed recalc wouldn't be necessary at all.

it is updating, if the current calc is no longer acceptable


anyway, @JustANormalLemon actually made a recalc here https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-universe-crt.150545/post-5553407
so we just have to implement this speed to the current scaling and we are good to go

 

[CloverDragon03]

not how it works, it needs to at least be the size of the observable universe for it to count for anything in tier 2-C, that is how it is

Source?

These are all separate space-time continua, so it counts

 

[Omegabronic]

Isn't Kaio realm 1/10th macroverse sized? The macroverse that includes 2 spacetimes(living world and after life). 2 spacetimes divided by 10 should still be tier 2 right? Since I have heard that you can't divide or multiply in tier 2.

if the spatial 3D size is not universal in size, then it doesn't matter for it to be a low 2-C structure, this is why we don't have the ROST as low 2-C for example

either way this thing is getting into derail i feel, someone just needs to apply the multipliers to the new speed calc and we are good to go

 

[BetterThanYou]

not how it works, it needs to at least be the size of the observable universe for it to count for anything in tier 2-C, that is how it is

It is 10% of the macrocosm, which is a 2-C contruct made up of at least 2 spacetimes. 2-C/10 is still 2-C.

 

[GarrixianXD]

The High 3-A statements are "hyperbole" because the kanji used in some (not all) of them is figurative. Bulma's statement has nothing to do with that.



Space-time continuum is Tier 2 (start with Low 2-C). This thread is about an Tier 3 ranting, dude.

The Universe itself is bounded with the space-time continuum, if this thread gets accepted it not only will change Toei Broly's rating but also 2-C characters as well

not how it works, it needs to at least be the size of the observable universe for it to count for anything in tier 2-C, that is how it is


read the title of the thread, 48hrs passed, it is accepted as not infinite anymore, since the current calc uses a model that was recently agreed as not being in scale, we now need a re calc of it


going from one space time to another is dimensional travel and not speed at all, recent changes made sure of that


it is updating, if the current calc is no longer acceptable


anyway, @JustANormalLemon actually made a recalc here https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-universe-crt.150545/post-5553407
so we just have to implement this speed to the current scaling and we are good to go

Mind my bad English, what I'm implying is that the speed hasn't been updating with the tiering.
I haven't been informed about the DB speed rating, why isn't it acceptable anymore?

 

[Nostredam]

Source?

--

Low 2-C: Universe level+​

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale.

 

[Omegabronic]

Source?

These are all separate space-time continua, so it counts

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...

vsbattles.fandom.com

they have to be the size of a universe, as for our standards that has to be at minimum the size of our observable universe, as the page itself says, no that means that it isn't an actual universe and as such we don't treat it as a low 2-C structure, that is just how it is on the wiki, if you want more explanation go as @PrinceofPein since he was the one who updated the universe page

 

[BetterThanYou]

if the spatial 3D size is not universal in size, then it doesn't matter for it to be a low 2-C structure, this is why we don't have the ROST as low 2-C for example

either way this thing is getting into derail i feel, someone just needs to apply the multipliers to the new speed calc and we are good to go

RoSAT is not considered 2-C because it was explicitly stated to be tier 5. And how do you know that its spatial 3-D size is not universal? The realms actual size is never stated on screen. The 1/10th things comes from the guide. And according to vs battle wiki rules, there is no multiplication or division in tier 2. Macrocosm is tier 2 and a 10th of that is still tier 2. Thus kaioshin realm is still tier 2.

 

[Omegabronic]

It is 10% of the macrocosm, which is a 2-C contruct made up of at least 2 spacetimes. 2-C/10 is still 2-C.

it 10% in size, have you not read what i said? if the 3D size of the realm is not universal in size, then we don't treat it as a low 2-C structure independently if it is another space time

 

[BetterThanYou]

it 10% in size, have you not read what i said? if the 3D size of the realm is not universal in size, then we don't treat it as a low 2-C structure independently if it is another space time

10% of 2 universes is not universal? And each of those 2 universes are arguably much bigger than our observable universe.

 

[Omegabronic]

The Universe itself is bounded with the space-time continuum, if this thread gets accepted it not only will change Toei Broly's rating but also 2-C characters as well

Mind my bad English, what I'm implying is that the speed hasn't been updating with the tiering.
I haven't been informed about the DB speed rating, why isn't it acceptable anymore?

Dragon ball universe crt

the current calcs for the 3-As in the dbs uses the classic map for the macrocosm to calc the ap and speed of the characters, however there are two problems with this: 1: this map is not consistent with dbs anime's visuals of how universes are, it is consistently shown to not look like the...

vsbattles.com

as of this thread it was concluded that the macrocosm map is not on scale with the real size of things, so it is as such inrealiable to calced the ratings of the characters, as of now the current calc for speed uses the map, now since the map was accepted as not being on scale, we simply have to recalc it, fortunely a user already did that on the thread, so now we just need to apply it

 

[Nostredam]

The Universe itself is bounded with the space-time continuum, if this thread gets accepted it not only will change Toei Broly's rating but also 2-C characters as well

Space-time continumm encompasses the universe, not the other way around; hence, the universe not being infinite-sized does not affect Tier 2 rantings.

To be more precise, the difference between a Timeline/4D Space-Time that encompasses a High 3-A universe, and a Timeline/4D Space-Time that encompasses a 3-A universe is none, since both work as uncountable infinity and thus countable finite or infinite values on a three-dimensional scale are rendered meaningless in this tier.

 

[Omegabronic]

10% of 2 universes is not universal?

no

And each of those 2 universes are arguably much bigger than our observable universe.

unless you can prove by how much

 

[Ringki_64]

Wdym no real counter-argument? 无线 translate to infinity. Nonetheless, the only proof in this thread of the Universe possibly being finite is Bulma's statement of "edge of Universe". However she only referred to the universe and we could inferred to she was insinuating the observable universe rather than the space-time continuum itself.

it was proven by official transalator that the infinity cant be taken literally but just a use of poetic words
did you read this crt?

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Heaven's accepted as being the size of the universe right? The Kaioshin Realm's size is 1/10th of the Afterlife+Universe combined.

Considering how small Heaven is to the scope of the entire Afterlife (literally you can see how numerous Heavens would fit in the space shown here alone), the Kaioshin Realm still probably reaches universal size.

 

[BetterThanYou]

no


unless you can prove by how much

That's stupid tbh. The earth is at the edge of the living world which does make the living world considerably larger than our universe. Hell inside the afterlife is as wide as the universe and the afterlife is much bigger than that. And the kaio realm is 10% of all tgat COMBINED. How the hell is that not universal?

 

[GarrixianXD]

Space-time continumm encompasses the universe, not the other way around; hence, the universe not being infinite-sized does not affect Tier 2 rantings.

To be more precise, the difference between a Timeline/4D Space-Time that encompasses a High 3-A universe, and a Timeline/4D Space-Time that encompasses a 3-A universe is none, since both work as uncountable infinity and thus countable finite or infinite values on a three-dimensional scale are rendered meaningless in this tier.

Oh ic, so you're implying a special context that the Universe isn't actually the space-time continuum itself

Ya ik, that's why I stated the Universe was bounded to the continuum

it was proven from official tl that the infinity cant be taken literally but just a use of poetic words
did you read this crt?

From one statement, not the other however
sometimes I get lazy and miss some details but not the significant parts

 

[Ringki_64]

Oh ic, so you're implying a special context that the Universe isn't actually the space-time continuum itself

Ya ik, that's why I stated the Universe was bounded to the continuum

From one statement, not the other however
sometimes I get lazy and miss some details but not the significant parts

 

[StekFence]

I don't know why the mention of the center of the universe is a topic of debate, an infinite universe can have a center, which is basically any point in space.

In this context tho, it refers to a very specific and singular location where the SDBs are, so there is only a single center

 

[Nostredam]

Oh ic, so you're implying a special context that the Universe isn't actually the space-time continuum itself

Because it's not. The space-time continuum is the Timeline, the Universe is simply all the matter within said continuum.

Time > Space > Universe.

 

[Omegabronic]

That's stupid tbh. The earth is at the edge of the living world which does make the living world considerably larger than our universe.

the position of earth means nothing really

Hell inside the afterlife is as wide as the universe and the afterlife is much bigger than that. And the kaio realm is 10% of all tgat COMBINED. How the hell is that not universal?

unless you can prove how much bigger it is we can't, that is just how it is

 

[BetterThanYou]

Well you will have to prove that the kaio realm is not universal sized since it is currently accepted as a low 2-C realm. The burden of proof is on you. I just gave my reason why I consider it as universal, infinite or not.