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Introduction
Recently on this wiki, the Dragon Ball franchise has run over several revisions until it was accepted that its universes (like the main one, the Universe 7) are spatially infinite in size (a.k.a High 3-A). This being something applied to the statistics of certain characters, as we can see in Toei Broly's profile page:
Needless to say that, by looking at the title of this Content Revision Thread, not only I disagree with the above idea, but I also find the arguments pretty much weak and some of them even objectively incorrect. In this thread I'll cover them in detail and explain why they are wrong. Take a note that if there's an argument about the universe being infinite that is missing on this thread, people can send it here so we can discuss about it. Of course, that missing argument would only be relevant if people directly rebut the "Inconsistencies" section on this same thread. Without further ado, let's begin.
Chozenshu 4 & Daizenshuu 7
To begin with, we have two quotes from Chozenshu 4 and Daizenshuu 7 respectively. Both were translated here with those sentences:
and:
What is wrong in using both to prove that the universe is infinite is the fact that people misinterpret the adjective used in both sentences, which is Hateshinai (果てしない). In both Chozenshu 4 and Daizenshuu 7, this adjective appears:
Chozenshu 4:
Daizenshuu 7:
Please note that in Daizenshuu 7's scan, the kanji い is missing and it's substituted with く, forming 果てし無く, which means "eternally; interminably".
Anyway, what's important with those informations is that Hateshinai is a figurative term of japanese to talk about an infinite element. To explain this thesis, I will use three reliable dictionaries that demonstrates how the term applies within a sentence:
Weblio
According to the Weblio dictionary, Hateshinai is an state of seemingly endless continuity (like the phrase "the endless expanse of the sea"). The word is used figuratively; like "a tediously long conversation", "continuing forever or indefinitely" and "seemingly endless in amount or number or degree or especially range".
Collins
According to the Collins dictionary, Hateshinai is used to describe figuratively something "eternal" or "interminable". For example: "an interminable meeting".
Linguee
The Linguee dictionary shows phrases commonly associated with that word, and it is very clear that none of them are being used similarly to as an literal adjective to describe something infinite in size (at least with standard measures of space). They are all figuratively endless/infinite.
Conclusion
As such, those two scans from Chozenshu and Daizenshuu don't prove the universe is literally infinite in size; in fact, it doesn't even assert its true size in the first place, as the descriptions are used figuratively to describe it. We can discard them right off the bat.
Daizenshuu 4 (#1 & #2)
The next quotes are those two from Daizenshuu 4:
and:
There's not much to refute here, honestly. The word used in the scans is Hirogaru (広がる), which means "to spread (out); to extend; to stretch; to reach to; to get around; to fill (e.g. a space)". What this means is that by converting the word from Japanese to English, we have a gerund phrase; which in turn means that the two scans are not saying that the universe is literally infinite in size, but it's expanding infinitely (i.e without an end). Something that is expanding is something that is constantly growing, not something that is already big (in this case, infinite). Saying it is literally infinite would be just an textual misinterpretation of what the wording is referring to.
Dainzeshuu 4 (#3)
Continuing, we have this one quote from the Universe Chapter Cover Art of Daizenshuu 4, which says:
I'll be straightforward here: This is just an poetic description of the universe. The Daizenshuu 4 translator himself says this, therefore it's not literal:
Also, it's worth noting that the canocity of said cover art is heavily dubious, as this page section of Daizenshuu 4 was considered so irrelevant that it wasn't even included in Chozenshu, which is the remake of Daizenshuu and, as people may know, it's reviewed by Akira Toriyama himself.
Dragon Ball GT Episode 2
Another argument about the universe being infinite in size is the narration at the ending of DBGT episode 2, which mentions "boundless galaxies". Before anything, this "scan" (video) also puts (in this case, speaks) the Hateshinai word in its sentence, therefore it is completely invalid a priori. However, I would like to demonstrate to the people how ridiculous is using that as an argument, even ignoring the context of the word:
Disregarding the above mentioned (which already refutes it), this is obviously a hyperbole. Firstly, we need to know that a hyperbole is an exaggeration of expression that, to be identified, needs to be in explicit sentences as to its intentions. What makes the statement explicit as being a hyperbole is not directly the fact that it mentions boundless galaxies, but the fact that it mentions this:
If we take literally that there are infinite/boundless galaxies, then we should also take literally that Bulma's spaceship can get through an infinite number of galaxies, which is simply wrong basing off the entire premisse of the next episode (Episode 3):
We can clearly see that the spaceship only passes by a star cluster, and never gets out of an single galaxy.
A few moments later, the spaceship crashes on a near planet, which is were the plot of episode 3 passes on.
Being entirely honest, is actually doubtful for me that the people who uses that argument has actually watched GT. Besides, let's move on:
Herms' Translation
The last one which I would like to cover is Herms' translation from Chozenshu:
Surprisingly, this citation is valid for arguing about an infinite-sized universe, as it's the only citation which does not use Hateshinai and it's present in both Chozenshu and Daizenshuu. It is the only valid citation in the entire guide.
However, if it was this easy, I wouldn't be making this thread, would I? The reason why this cannot be used is not because the above reasons, but rather because it's actively contradictory with Dragon Ball Super, which is what we'll se below. As such, this is either an hyperbole or a retconned information that doesn't fit in the actual writting of the verse.
Inconsistencies
Cosmology Side
The universe is explicitly noted to have an edge and an center, meaning it's obviously not infinite:The only "rebuttal" people use for this claim is that Bulma is talking about only the observable universe, and not the supposed space that exists beyond it. This is impossible, as one cannot be at the "edge of a observable universe"; the observer has to be in the middle as the light comes from all directions:
Quoting:
Quoting:
In fact, the context of the chapter points nothing about an "observable universe", but rather the full structure of it, the terminology of Universe 6/7:
Also, the Official Toei Website in its Episode Summary Section says this:
Meaning that claiming it is the "observable universe" is a flawed logic contradicted by the own authors' intention.
Rantings Side
As people may know, the premisse of the Dragon Ball franchise is that characters can get stronger by finite and limited attributes such as training, transformations' multipliers, etc. Looking at the Toei side of this, the notion of the characters having an High 3-A ranting absurdly skips through tiering levels, as from a moment to another one can skip a 4-B level of power to straight up infinite levels of power by having power ups that are clearly not an infinite attribute booster. For example, in Toei's Goku page it is said this:
That something to at least rethink of, since SS3 is a finite multiplier of SS2 and still is classified as infinitely more powerful. People may consider that some fictions can skip several tiers through certain power ups, which is true, but in this specific case it doesn't make any sense as the character is getting a "infinitely more powerful" form which he got by finite measures (training). Applying this logic retroactively would make much more characters get High 3-A ranting despite clearly don't having it, basing on vague reasons like "this character take a hit from a High 3-A character, therefore he should be High 3-A despite being vastly inferior to said character". A notory downfall path to actual power scaling.
Conclusions
The Dragon Ball Universe is potrayed to as having finite size by both statements and author's intentions. Nearly all the scans of it having an infinite size are either out of context or misinterpretated. High 3-A rantings should vanish because of that. And, obviously, there's 0 room for debate about the characters having Infinite Speed for supposedly crossing an infinite universe.
