dragon ball cosmology revision

[DMB_1]

About those Universal things...
when people calced again and again Goku and Beerus' 3-A feat, they often mentioned how the Mortal universe is the size of our universe.

... Yet, I'm pretty sure that the Demon Realm is also a part of the mortal universe, just its lowest one. I know that they size of the Demon Realm compared to the rest of the Universe is inconsistent, though that would change the calculation.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The real world is far bigger than the Observable Universe, the Observable Universe is just a tiny spec compared to how big the universe actually is. It can be anywhere from Observable Universe size or infinite. Also, Earth and the Milky way galaxy are located in the center of the Observable universe, but we don't know if the Observable Universe is located in the edge, or the center of the actual universe. Meaning if Earth and Milky Way galaxy were at the edge of the Universe, then the Universe would by default be much larger than the observable Universe.

Because, Point A is one edge of the Universe, point B is Earth's location, and Point C is the other edge of the universe. Lines AB and BC would each have to be 4.65 * 10^10 Lightyears at bare minimum, and it's likely both of them are actually longer than that. And the fact that one of them is astronomically higher than the other is proof that both of them added together would get something far above 9.3 * 10^10 lightyears. And that excludes the afterlife being bigger than the Mortal Universe, Kaioshin Realm being outside the body of space, and inverse square law with Earth's atmosphere being the epic center of the blast making all of the above much higher. Who whole calculation is a massive lowball if anything.

Side note, if we decided to accept Cosmic inflation Theory to make the Universe 9.3 * 10^33 Lightyears in diameter, and in turn multiply the the baseline of 3-A by 10^69, there would be no problems treating the Mortal Universe as just a regular sized universe; but would still be a massive upgrade for Dragon Ball both an AP and speed; just not by as significant compared to others. Plus Kaizenshuu says the Universe is infinite, so there.

 

[My_area]

Love the last part

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Zamasu Those are some really old threads. I'll only comment on the ones that I'm still aware on.

"The universes being hundreds of times bigger than baseline."

Well, it's currently accepted as 110x above baseline, from https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...on_Ball_Universe_size#Part_2_-_Beerus.27_Feat

So I'm not really sure who disagrees there.

"Only the afterlives have separate space times while the universes don't."

Kinda funny how that switched around. But I don't believe there's too much disagreement on this one either. But I'm fairly neutral on the whole afterlife having seperate space-time.

The rest there seems to be quite a bit more of disagreement with from at least what I've seen as of late.

Question: in this blog what size would the mortal universe alone be?

 

[DanielX7]

@Zamasu Those are some really old threads. I'll only comment on the ones that I'm still aware on.

"The universes being hundreds of times bigger than baseline."

Well, it's currently accepted as 110x above baseline, from https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...on_Ball_Universe_size#Part_2_-_Beerus.27_Feat

So I'm not really sure who disagrees there.

"Only the afterlives have separate space times while the universes don't."

Kinda funny how that switched around. But I don't believe there's too much disagreement on this one either. But I'm fairly neutral on the whole afterlife having seperate space-time.

The rest there seems to be quite a bit more of disagreement with from at least what I've seen as of late.

Question: in this blog what size would the mortal universe alone be?

Infinite.

 

[Sera_EX]

To repost what I said on another ongoing DBS CRT:

I think they should get Cross-Dimensional range instead, due to Goku v. Beerus affecting other dimensions of U7. If they got flatout Universal+ range it would conflict with Infinite Zamasu's Universal+ range which is accurately about encroaching across space-time.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Cross-dimension makes far more sense than Low Multiversal.

 

[HrishikeshM]

it would make sense with the current rating but i have still got no answer why it was decided to treat the universe 7 as one universe.....all i got was an old discussion where it was decided out of compromise.....like the actual cosmology will make the correct rating too high because of multiple universe sized space time constructs so just ignore them and treat universe 7 as one universe because all of it is called a universe......and i was told that even if a construct is called universe it could still be tier 2-a or even 1 so what is the problem?

 

[AwkguyDB]

So why is Universe 7 not Low 2-C?

 

[Sera_EX]

It is Low 2-C, it's not 2-C.

 

[AwkguyDB]

It is Low 2-C, it's not 2-C.

Okay so if it is Low 2-C is there a thread explaning why the BoG feats are not Low 2-C as well?

 

[Sera_EX]

Because they were piercing dimensional barriers, not threatening space-time itself (i.e. we didn't see Future Trunks' timeline crumbling from Goku v. Beerus). That's not enough for Low 2-C.

 

[My_area]

Yes there was a long thread on Low 2-C BOG which got closed because its spiraled into chaos

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

All I've literally seen is an admin just sayingno or we've been over this without a proper refute. I've looked through past threads and I've seen so many claims thrown left and right. The only staff member who I've seen actually trying is Sera, and I appreciate that.

For starters the universes, Realm of the Kais, and the afterlives have no different characteristics. All of them are universal in size, separated from each other, require dimensional travel, and are referred to as different dimensions one way or another. Since these characteristics are literally the same, this makes me ask: what makes U6 and U7 different space times but not the other realms, especially if they share these characteristics? If 3-A is emphasized so much, why not just have all the universes 3-A and not low 2-C? Oh wait! I forgot that's something I shouldn't bring up because...

• Note: We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate timespaces relative each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.

The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected.

(-~-) I still do not understand this at all. What does the the ROSAT have to do with anything? The quote says that U7 has more than one time space, so why is it strictly low 2-C as a whole? And for the last time what different characteristics do the afterlife and U6 (for example) have?

Someone for the love of everything holy, please give me a competent response because I'm pretty sure we are ALL tired of this shit.

Also Kudos to Kep for writing the note but, it makes no bloody sense.

 

[Stefano4444]

Realms of the Kais aren't actually universal in size, only the Afterlifes and Living Worlds are.

 

[AKM sama]

@Zamasu because dimensional tiering sucks and low 2-c and 3-a should be the same thing without all the shit about time axis

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I thought the same thing too but that would upgrade a lot of high 3-As to 2-A.

 

[HrishikeshM]

zamasu chan that makes sense because destroying one infinite sized rock is same as destroying infinite number of finite sized rocks.....but destroying infinite number of infinite sized rocks still will be above destroying one infinite sized rock lol but let us not get into that or this thread will close

 

[Sera_EX]

@Zamasu because dimensional tiering sucks and low 2-c and 3-a should be the same thing without all the shit about time axis

Even if we did, it wouldn't be Universal+ because it's just dimensional barriers being threatened. It's no different than the dimensional barriers separating the many realms of Earth-616 in Marvel.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Universe 7 just has pocket realities with nonlinear time, it's still branched from the main timeline. Room of Spirit and Time is simply has a 360 times faster, which is technically the same direction but simply flows at a different rate. It's not a separate flow of time entirely like the different universes in Narnia; where it could be thousands of times faster, completely frozen, or even backwards. RoSaT has a static flow of time compared to the main timeline and still branched from it.

Although, the Trunk's timeline argument, I don't think was the best. Because that's a completely separate timeline entirely that was created via time travel.

 

[Sera_EX]

DBS contradicts that, Zamasu from Trunks' timeline was appearing in the present of Goku's timeline. Unless you're going to argue Zamasu is 2-C (please don't). Regardless it still stands that U7 is a universe with multiple dimensions separated by dimensional barriers. A macrocosm, an afterlife, a demon realm, and multiple pocket realms like the ROSAT. Of course there's also the apparently 3-B sized Kaioshin Realm. There's no evidence of the time-space whole being threatened by Goku v. Beerus, just the physical dimensions.

You can make an argument for High 3-A though.

 

[AKM sama]

There's also the fact that all the supposed dimensions of U7 are still a part of, and linked to U7. This is why the effects of Goku v Beerus can reach to the afterlife and even the kaioshin realm that is even further from the mortal universe, but still not reach U6's mortal realm that is just beside U7's. It's because there's clear distinction between the dimensions of one universe and a totally different space-time continuum.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Can someone please answer my post from 18 hrs ago?

 

[AKM sama]

Unless you're going to argue Zamasu is 2-C (please don't).

but Zamasu would eventually become 2-C according to his profile ovo

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And yes, Goku Vs Casual Beerus is not Tier 2, and we aren't making characters like Android 17, Piccolo, Gohan, Trunks, ect Tier 2. Zamasu is simply Low 2-C who's approaching 2-C, but he's simply Low 2-C as is everyone superior to him.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

There's also the fact that all the supposed dimensions of U7 are still a part of, and linked to U7. This is why the effects of Goku v Beerus can reach to the afterlife and even the kaioshin realm that is even further from the mortal universe, but still not reach U6's mortal realm that is just beside U7's. It's because there's clear distinction between the dimensions of one universe and a totally different space-time continuum.

Ok. I think the question I should be asking is what makes U7 and U6 different space times?

 

[My_area]

General assuming that each universes are separate space and time continuum as they are separate universes?

If thats not better then fact that Goku vs Beerus clash was going to destroy universe 7 macrocosm and not other universes or Beerus vs Champa were going to destroy 2 universes only not more or universes canr be accessed by anyone other than Angels/Grand Priest/Zeno attack/Guards/Cube specifically stated to travel universes means other universes are seperated by space and time continum

Though I wont argue on this right now

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

General assuming that each universes are separate space and time continuum as they are separate universes?
If thats not better then fact that Goku vs Beerus clash was going to destroy universe 7 macrocosm and not other universes or Beerus vs Champa were going to destroy 2 universes only not more or universes canr be accessed by anyone other than Angels/Grand Priest/Zeno attack/Guards/Cube specifically stated to travel universes means other universes are seperated by space and time continum

Though I wont argue on this right now

Oxymoron. Not only is the living world isolated in its own space but it's called the vast universe. The afterlife and realm of the Kai also require dimensional travel with the examples you've given.

• U6 - separate from U7, requires dimension travel.

• The afterlife - requires dimension travel, is separate from the Living World.

There's literally nothing different about them other that their names.

 

[My_area]

Living world is called universe because its based on our universe and its enclosed on a bigger universe 7 macrocosm which in total is represented and called universe which is why we knew that Goku and Beerus were going to destroy whole universe 7 macrocosm and not only living world since only "universe" was used

Its because in map of Daizenshuu which is what I use is seperated only by boundary abut is still conjoined with the whole macrocosm map and realm of kai cant be accessed because its outside macrocosm structure and when was afterlife stated to be not be accessible?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The map is just that, a map. It's made to show us the locations of different areas. We have cinematics in the actual show that contradict the drawing and shows the living universe to be its own space.

 

[Sera_EX]

Toriyama created the map so he can give fans a general idea of where everything is located and so he wouldn't forget how his cosmology is organized. In the actual animanga the universe is compared to a latter, which each realm separated by dimensional barriers. It's clearly meant to be a multi-dimensional (multi-realm) universe, not a literal multiverse.

While I believe the Afterlife is the size of the mortal universe it is not only because of "muh map" but because the afterlife in the actual manga and anime as shown to us is shown to contain planets (each Kai has their own planet, albeit a small one) and a su as well as cosmic distances between celestial bodies, so it's not far-fetched to say it's universe-sized.

 

[Sera_EX]

Also, the living realm is essentially the "observable universe" of Drgaon Ball, e.g. the universe observable by mortals. So it being called a universe doesn't mean much. By definition it is a universe (in the general sense of the word) as it is a galactic filament with countless stars, planets, and galaxies. It doesn't make it it's very own universe.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I know that, but it's still no smaller than the observable Universe or our universe in general. In fact, if our Universe is infinite, then there are no contradictions in the Kaizenshuu saying it's infinite.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Also, the living realm is essentially the "observable universe" of Drgaon Ball, e.g. the universe observable by mortals. So it being called a universe doesn't mean much. By definition it is a universe (in the general sense of the word) as it is a galactic filament with countless stars, planets, and galaxies. It doesn't make it it's very own universe.

Ok, multi-dimensional ok. I'm completely fine with that. I think a proper note on the profile, plus a discussion rule is necessary.

 

[Sera_EX]

I do believe a DB cosmology page is in order, but a highly experienced tier system member who is also knowledgeable on Dragon Ball would need to make it.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Dragon Ball tiering is shakespearean at this point.

2-C, or not 2-C, that is the questio

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I do believe a DB cosmology page is in order, but a highly experienced tier system member who is also knowledgeable on Dragon Ball would need to make it.

This

 

[AwkguyDB]

Thought SSJRyu did something like this before

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I do believe a DB cosmology page is in order, but a highly experienced tier system member who is also knowledgeable on Dragon Ball would need to make it.

Who do you think should hold this responsibility?

 

[My_area]

I dont know what DBS even doing anymore considering the map was made by Toriyama,used in DB kai(which we dont use)and used in Daizenshuu to explain in good length and used in DBS manga