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The DBS manga is inconsistent with the universe formation as shown above.
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dragon ball cosmology revision
- Thread starter HrishikeshM
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.AwkguyDB said:Wait hold on The Manga uses both the Sphere Universe and the Globe Macrocosm
. Within the same arc if not chapter lol. Does that mean anything?
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Those globes are obviously not real universes, at least not yet when we don't even have enough info about them to even make an assumption.
I think the topic of this thread was rejected so should I go ahead and close it?
I think the topic of this thread was rejected so should I go ahead and close it?
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I think we can close the thread.
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I'm surprised this has never happened before. There should be a discussion rule, a cosmology analysis (made by staff) and an updated note on Zeno's profile to explain why the universes are different space times.Antvasima said:
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Who do you think should hold this responsibility?
It seems I have to be the one.
Those globes are obviously not real universes, at least not yet when we don't even have enough info about them to even make an assumption.
Those are literally supposed to be the universes. No that doesn't mean Grand Priest is 3-B sized, it means those orbs are like crystal balls showing the universes.
Should we write a new discussion rule about this often repeated topic first?
Since a cosmology page is being made, I'm not sure if that's necessary.
It seems I have to be the one.
Those globes are obviously not real universes, at least not yet when we don't even have enough info about them to even make an assumption.
Those are literally supposed to be the universes. No that doesn't mean Grand Priest is 3-B sized, it means those orbs are like crystal balls showing the universes.
Should we write a new discussion rule about this often repeated topic first?
Since a cosmology page is being made, I'm not sure if that's necessary.
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"No that doesn't mean Grand Priest is 3-B sized, it means those orbs are like crystal balls showing the universes."
Again, my point was they are not REAL universes. Those orbs can represent universes, that's there for all to see, but their structure or how they're arranged relative to each other, etc, no such info can be gathered about real universes from that scan.
A rule should be fine. No matter if we make a cosmology page or write notes in their profiles, they don't stop people from making upgrade/downgrade threads.
Again, my point was they are not REAL universes. Those orbs can represent universes, that's there for all to see, but their structure or how they're arranged relative to each other, etc, no such info can be gathered about real universes from that scan.
A rule should be fine. No matter if we make a cosmology page or write notes in their profiles, they don't stop people from making upgrade/downgrade threads.
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It's ironic how Toriyama wanted the universe's structure to be 'simple' but look where it got us.
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I thought GT was disliked because the plot was bad. That's worse than cosmology retcons imo
Listentomyrhytm
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I remember that the first arc was compared to milking of Namek and previous arcs by being another Dragon Ball hunt arc.
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Super was full of PIS and cosmology stuff that make little sense; however, it's still great entertainment and introduced plenty of likable characters. I don't care of the concepts or on paper writing was worse the GT, I still strongly take it over GT in terms of execution.
Anyway, I'll wait for AKM's suggestion if he has one.
Anyway, I'll wait for AKM's suggestion if he has one.
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No-no-no-no-nob Super is bad plot and cosmology retcons. So if GT is bad for "bad plot" Super is worse because it's bad plot + unnecessary retcons + little-to-no explanation of things that need explaining.
The DB universe is a mess now because of Super, and our community doesn't realize how lenient we actually are with DB. There's galaxies between U6 and U7 (shown at the end of the GoD tournament as Super Shenron was summoned in-between universes) and, among other things, there's plenty evidence to suggest they share the same space. Xenoverse/Heroes (while non-canon) also differentiate between timelines and physical universes + their spiritual realms. So each universe shouldn't be considered Low 2-C, but we do anyway (let's be honest, mostly due to controversy).
Personally what makes the most sense is there is a quilted multiverse with twelve (formerly eighteen) macrocosms, each with their own afterlife and demon realms. Rather than suggest there's 36 (formerly 54) universe-sized realms in DB's cosmology.
I still love this franchise to death but since power-scaling is now the core of DB (and the writers clearly acknowledged this), they can at least do their best to not screw it up. DB may be for kids but that doesn't mean it should be written like it's for five-year-olds. Even Toy Story has more consistency, depth, and complexity than Super's literal fanservice with a little (inconsistent) worldbuilding and plot.
The DB universe is a mess now because of Super, and our community doesn't realize how lenient we actually are with DB. There's galaxies between U6 and U7 (shown at the end of the GoD tournament as Super Shenron was summoned in-between universes) and, among other things, there's plenty evidence to suggest they share the same space. Xenoverse/Heroes (while non-canon) also differentiate between timelines and physical universes + their spiritual realms. So each universe shouldn't be considered Low 2-C, but we do anyway (let's be honest, mostly due to controversy).
Personally what makes the most sense is there is a quilted multiverse with twelve (formerly eighteen) macrocosms, each with their own afterlife and demon realms. Rather than suggest there's 36 (formerly 54) universe-sized realms in DB's cosmology.
I still love this franchise to death but since power-scaling is now the core of DB (and the writers clearly acknowledged this), they can at least do their best to not screw it up. DB may be for kids but that doesn't mean it should be written like it's for five-year-olds. Even Toy Story has more consistency, depth, and complexity than Super's literal fanservice with a little (inconsistent) worldbuilding and plot.
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@Sera, it isn't just the plot. Most if not all the fight scenes in GT are also underwhelming compared to previous Anime. They really use martial arts and just use energy blasts in GT where as Super actually improved the fight scenes at least in ToP. The first two seasons still had sub par animation than the no longer canon movies. Also, making Baby a villain right after they just had Buu was one of the problems with GT.
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Sorry if I'm going off topic and butting in here, but while Super may be a mess behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure that, most viewer really doesn't really care all that much since it's easily overlooked when you're distracted by the spectacle of Goku vs Jiren Round 3, Fusion Zamasu vs Vegito, etc. Most viewers are honestly just here to be entertained by big fights and power levels, rather than the cosmology of Dragon Balls multiverse.
Also, while Super has a lot of fanservice, quite a lot of it is actually entertaining/meshes well with the overarching story. In contrast GT handles fan service weirdly by trying to make OG Dragon ball 2.0 with Kid Goku, and making most of the Shadow Dragons mere gimmicks/call backs to previous wishes rather than actual villain.
Btw you're ignoring all the stuff Super did better, i.e, characters with... character, actually having the case outside of Goku do something productive, not making Goku win every fight, having humor that (usually) works, and actually executing concepts with some competancy (E.G: Baby vs Black - Black is far more nuanced, and a character who isn't evil for evils sake, Returning villains actually have impact beyond cheap fanservice, and explored new concepts, like the God hierachy, are actually explored, unlike the Black Dragon Balls which are introduced and essentially dropped outside of the earth blowing up.)
Also, while Super has a lot of fanservice, quite a lot of it is actually entertaining/meshes well with the overarching story. In contrast GT handles fan service weirdly by trying to make OG Dragon ball 2.0 with Kid Goku, and making most of the Shadow Dragons mere gimmicks/call backs to previous wishes rather than actual villain.
Btw you're ignoring all the stuff Super did better, i.e, characters with... character, actually having the case outside of Goku do something productive, not making Goku win every fight, having humor that (usually) works, and actually executing concepts with some competancy (E.G: Baby vs Black - Black is far more nuanced, and a character who isn't evil for evils sake, Returning villains actually have impact beyond cheap fanservice, and explored new concepts, like the God hierachy, are actually explored, unlike the Black Dragon Balls which are introduced and essentially dropped outside of the earth blowing up.)
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When you realize that the structure was always simple but vs debaters care about "time", "dimenshuns", "continuums", etc that were always irrelevant to Toriyama.Zamasu Chan said:
As for the rule, only a minor adjustment needs to be made in a pre-existing rule:
"Do not attempt to change the current Dragon Ball power ratings without explicit feats from the new anime series. We have heard all of the arguments many times before, and are so exhausted of constantly dealing with those topics that bringing them up recurrently leads to nowhere, with the thread being oftentimes closed immediately."
to
"Do not attempt to change the current Dragon Ball cosmology and power ratings without new evidence from the ongoing manga. We have heard all of the arguments many times before, and are so exhausted of constantly dealing with those topics that bringing them up recurrently leads to nowhere, with the thread being oftentimes closed immediately."
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@Sera
Well, I personally enjoyed much of DBS better than DBZ, especially the tournament of power. They likely got the idea from the Dragon Ball Multiverse webcomic, but executed it better i.m.h.o.
@AKM
Wouldn't something like this be better? I have heard that a continuation to the TV series will come sooner or later.
"Do not attempt to change the current Dragon Ball cosmology and power ratings without new evidence from an ongoing manga or anime series. We have heard all of the arguments many times before, and are so exhausted of constantly dealing with those topics that bringing them up recurrently leads to nowhere, with the discussion threads being oftentimes closed immediately."
Well, I personally enjoyed much of DBS better than DBZ, especially the tournament of power. They likely got the idea from the Dragon Ball Multiverse webcomic, but executed it better i.m.h.o.
@AKM
Wouldn't something like this be better? I have heard that a continuation to the TV series will come sooner or later.
"Do not attempt to change the current Dragon Ball cosmology and power ratings without new evidence from an ongoing manga or anime series. We have heard all of the arguments many times before, and are so exhausted of constantly dealing with those topics that bringing them up recurrently leads to nowhere, with the discussion threads being oftentimes closed immediately."
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The new rule seems good, there's already a new movie officially confirmed to be in production so I guess we'll be getting an anime and movie at some point in the future
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@Ant
The director of the Dragon Ball Unit on Shueisha said some things about the future of Dragon Ball:
"Broly was so strong that I think the next one will probably be totally different. I've overcome various hurdles with parts of Broly, so I won't get burned out. I think that Dragon Ball will continue on, so I want fans to look forward to it."
He also stated: "Now for our next steps, we are steadily preparing for the next movie."
Moro is not necessarily strong like Broly, he's more on the abilities and exotic techniques side of things, which makes me believe that he's referring to Moro. But on the other hand, the Moro arc is too big for a movie, and that makes me think that an anime and a movie is on the way.
The director of the Dragon Ball Unit on Shueisha said some things about the future of Dragon Ball:
"Broly was so strong that I think the next one will probably be totally different. I've overcome various hurdles with parts of Broly, so I won't get burned out. I think that Dragon Ball will continue on, so I want fans to look forward to it."
He also stated: "Now for our next steps, we are steadily preparing for the next movie."
Moro is not necessarily strong like Broly, he's more on the abilities and exotic techniques side of things, which makes me believe that he's referring to Moro. But on the other hand, the Moro arc is too big for a movie, and that makes me think that an anime and a movie is on the way.
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I actually thought this was closed. Sera is planning on making it, I believe, so this should be closed.
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I need to update the Discussion Rules text first. Are the rest of you fine with this?
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I have done so: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Discussion_Rules&diff=5853890&oldid=5818965
I will close this thread then.
I will close this thread then.
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