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Dota 2 Discussion Thread

JohnHendrix212 said:
True.

True. My current justifications for them was "exists and occupies realms outside of time." Perhaps, "beyond time" was the correct term given Void's respawn line.

I suppose I should consult DDM again regarding this...
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Should Faceless Void and Weaver's examples of time travel be included as well?
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Should Faceless Void and Weaver's examples of time travel be included as well?
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I've just read Weaver's ability descriptions, and I think they fit what DDM said about being able to walk casually or fight through time. Especially this:

If Skitskurr does not deem the current reality of the world to fit his desires, he simply crawls back in time to right what was wronged.

Void's methods of time travel is quite straightforward, really. He's not bound by time, and can casually move to and fro it. So he keeps Immeasurable. He doesn't need consulting if you ask me.
 
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Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
My only gripe with the series is how confusing some of the new lore can be. The new eldwurms being the pillars of creation instead of the elemental spirits and 4 fundamental forces is quite hard to grasp but I hope that they are still relevant to the lore. Although I like how Uldorak (who used to be a time dragon in the game) isn't what he is in the anime, and he's only called a time dragon because he has someone spread lore about him like a publicist. Adds more depth to what kind of interactions dragons have with lesser creatures.

The show has lots of good feats too and I think it's further supported by what's in Dota 2 and its spinoff games.
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I’m pretty sure the dragons are the element spirts and fundamental forces(well there souls are atleast)
 
The_one_you_least_excpet said:
Also are we gonn talk about how invoker captured and contained one of the elderwurm(did take everything out of him though) and how terrorblade clapped selemene
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One of the writers said that Terrorblade isn't at full strength outside of Foulfell, plus Selemene was weakened by the eclipse that Invoker made. So both of their real strength levels are quite vague rn
 
Okay so I rewatched the anime again and I found this interesting quote from Slyvion that he said to Kaden when he was captured by him. Take it with a grain of salt, because this might not be the exact words that he said to him and this is all from memory. It could be supporting evidence for 2-A ratings, but not enough to merit a profile since most of the powers of the dragons and their souls are not fully known yet.

"Once released from corporal fetters; time, space, the Manifold Forms, the pillars of order and chaos dissolve, causing the destruction of endless universes, with no hope of regeneration."

Slyvion said this when Kaden stated his intentions of killing him, so this quote might be referring to the consequences of destroying the dragon souls that support the universe (or multiverse). The Manifold Forms might be related to the Manifold Paradox blades that PA wields, and the word "manifold" means "many and various". All of these manifold stuff are somewhat connected with characters who have something to do with multiple timelines. Also, he mentions "absence of nothingness" which implies that this might even destroy the Void and Void Spirit himself (if he makes an appearance) so take that as you will

Also, I found some more feats that I overlooked from the anime.
  • Mirana shattering a cave's ceiling using Davion's glowing arm blade
  • The clash between Slyrak and Kaden shattering a mountain top (both survived this, but Slyrak was completely unharmed by it)
  • Luna's Lucent Beam make a spiral cloud formation
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
"Once released from corporal fetters; time, space, the Manifold Forms, the pillars of order and chaos dissolve, causing the destruction of endless universes, with no hope of regeneration."

Slyvion said this when Kaden stated his intentions of killing him, so this quote might be referring to the consequences of destroying the dragon souls that support the universe (or multiverse). The Manifold Forms might be related to the Manifold Paradox blades that PA wields, and the word "manifold" means "many and various". All of these manifold stuff are somewhat connected with characters who have something to do with multiple timelines. Also, he mentions "absence of nothingness" which implies that this might even destroy the Void and Void Spirit himself (if he makes an appearance) so take that as you will
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That's a pretty good supporting evidence for 2-A. Also, that "Absence of nothingness" sounds interesting. I hope you're right about it relating to the Void Spirit. Manifold Paradox was made by the Oracle, so if it is indeed related to that, Oracle would have to be closely related as well. I do hope we get to see more of him since the intro.
 
The Manifold Paradox was made by a blacksmith whom I forgot the name of. Oracle just summoned it out of thin air, but the fact that he considers it useful to kill those people who killed him in alternate timelines could mean something
 
The blacksmith doesn't really have a name, he was just some blacksmith who managed to somehow make a sword so powerful that it allowed him to cut through space-time, kill himself from the past, and obtain two versions of the sword. The reason Oracle considers it useful is most likely because of the vergil space-time cutting stuff.
 
We're talking about the in-game lore, I think you can get a head start at the wiki but not all the lore is sorted up together in a convenient way. Some of it comes from item descriptions, voice lines, events, etc. so you'll have to find a place to start.
 
Headcanon? I thought they were just theories he came up with. Speaking of, there's plenty of evidence that suggests that Spectre is actually Mortred, so should we add her as a key to Phantom Assassin's profile or is that a bad idea?
 
Shmooply said:
Headcanon? I thought they were just theories he came up with. Speaking of, there's plenty of evidence that suggests that Spectre is actually Mortred, so should we add her as a key to Phantom Assassin's profile or is that a bad idea?
Click to expand...
I haven't seen that theory yet so I don't know. But theories in general aren't accepted here in this wiki unless there's lots of proof behind its legitimacy, which would not make it a theory.
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
I haven't seen that theory yet so I don't know. But theories in general aren't accepted here in this wiki unless there's lots of proof behind its legitimacy, which would not make it a theory.
Click to expand...
There is plenty of proof that suggests that Spectre and Phantom Assassin are ABSOLUTELY the same being, the reason why I think it would be a bad idea to add her as a key for PA's profile is because I feel like plenty of members who happen to play or know something about Dota 2 wouldn't agree with it. Anywho, the theory was made by, you've guessed it, Slacks, and he wrote all the reasons why they're the same character in a very long rant that he sent to some random guy on Plebbit.

you wanna ****** go right now

Alright lets do this

At the end of the oracle comic we see pa traveling between realities spitting herself to assassinate targets across dimensions and space. As she does her contracts, we see via her arcane that she becomes more ethereal and ghostly. As her physical form fades, we see her change to become more ghostly and faded from our realm.

Furthermore:

-Specter throws a dagger, like PA which slow the target

-Specter has a ability which deals additional damage to single targets

-specter has a passive which affects heros that attack her

-specter has the ability to cross long distances to instantly appear at her target.

FURTHERMORE

-specter has the same voice actor as PA, but reversed and echoed. When pa gets her arcana her voice echoes as well.

-THEY HAVE THE SAME VOICE LINES for several things. Also, the other voice lines are ones of confusion and apologies, and when she wins she claims she is finally able to go home http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Spectre_responses

-specter has nearly the same weapon as pa but in a ghostly form held in the same way, offhand with one hand.

-both of their names start with the same letter and are very similar, as if it was remembered incorrectly or lost over time

-pa is the one sister of the veil that values her own name, and her own self. Specter is attempting to combine the diffrent versions of herself to find out who she is. Her identity is everything, just like PA.

AND THERE YOU GO.
 
Anyways, we all know that the dragons represent both the Fundamentals and the Celestials. First, there's the strong nuclear force (CK), the weak nuclear force (KotL), electromagnetism (Io), and gravity (Enigma) for the 4 Fs which are represented by the Chaos Eldwurm, Luminous Eldwurm, Ionic Eldwurm, and the Void Eldwurm. For the Celestial Spirits, there's fire (Ember Spirit), earth (Earth Spirit), and storm (Storm Spirit) which are represented by Ember Eldwurm, Earth Eldwurm, and the Water & Air Eldwurms who both make up the storm element.

However, we know that there are four Celestial brothers so there must be four elemental dragons. But there's no 1:1 relationship between them, since Ember Spirit would be Slyrak, Earth Spirit would be Uldorak, Storm Spirit would be Lirrak and Aethrak, and Void Spirit would be Byssrak. However, Byssrak is one of the fundamental dragons who is literally gravity and spacetime given form despite its name "void dragon". Leaving Void Spirit with no equivalent.

So who is Void Spirit's dragon equivalent? The fact that he doesn't have any might actually mean something. All of these dragons have souls just like their hero counterparts, but Void Spirit has none. He existed before the spirit itself, and thus has no soul. He is literally nothingness, but we only see him because he had to make a form that could interact with all of creation.

Void Spirit might make an appearance not as the humanoid version that we see in the games since the whole dragon cosmology somewhat contradicts the lore about the Celestials, Fundamentals, and anyone related to them, but he might have a dragon form if he chooses to make one.
 
Looks like this thread hasn't been bumped in a while. Lemme fix that by posting some more proof that Spectre and Phantom Assassin are most likely the same person.
unknown.png

also, what the **** is hoodwink? was one of the developers a fan of that furry robin hood movie or something? and dont get me started on how low quality his model is
 
I still don't buy the theory of PA = Spectre. I would believe it if it's explicitly stated in a way, plus Artifact's lore about the Sisters of the Veil kinda contradicts with the theory. I can explain it here if you want

Hoodwink is my least favourite among the new heroes tbh. Her lore is pretty boring and she doesn't add any new or interesting story to the rest of the cast
 
First, the more powerful members of the Sisters of the Veil have a limited degree of immortality. When the most powerful assassins of that order die, their strong connection with the Phantom Veil allows them to live on as a spirit. Now you may think that this reinforces Slacks' theory, but it doesn't. There's no mention of anything related to his theory (timelines, Oracle, Manifold Paradox, etc.) and for PA to become Spectre (who is a ghost), she must die first. But she's not dead, nor has she gone to the spiritual plane or anything similar to that.

Not to mention that Spectre has a physical form when she starts to enter combat or any scene of conflict, which is the form that we see in-game. If a Sister of the Veil dies, they become spirits and they can't go back to their physical forms.

The Manifold Paradox doesn't have any mention of turning its wielder into a ghost, so no she can't be Spectre. It does transform her appearance but that's what Arcana items do in general.
 
Reviving this thread with a Dark Troll's spell

Also I just realized Spectre won the arcana vote versus Faceless Void, we might be getting a huge lore dump when that drops
 
Earthshaker's arcana probably has the least vague power level in terms of lore. He's now connected to distant earths (including space rocks) and has some form of capability to travel through space, but he's still learning his new powers.

Most Arcana items aren't power boosts like Lina's arcana (which would count as Awakened Power) and some are power boosts to an unknown extent (SF, PA, Jugg, Legion, etc)
 
Speaking of power, I just found a Reddit post that has a lot of interesting scrapped card art from Artifact. Thing is, it's unused content since Artifact got killed by Valve and I don't think we can use any of the cool lore that we see from the card art.
 
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