Dota 2 Discussion Thread

[StretchSebe]

My b, was so used to UES and not the other two. Between the limited and non-physical energy system, which one does Dota 2 use?

Ahh, finally getting to the Dota Blood episodes today, but going through the requirements, I think that Mana could still qualify for UES.

While many aren't literally dependent, or reliant on mana for their stats, higher tier characters that aren't the top tiers like Invoker and other high level mages like Oracle would probably be the best examples of characters that display such system being to their benefit, as well as anti-mage depleting the mana essentially draining said power from them.

At minimum, I'd say it would be non-physical energy system given the commonality and effective amping mana provides.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Y'all saw the remastered hats for Dota's anniversary? They just redesigned the controversial cowboy hat Ursa set and added a Tormentor skin

 

[Shmooply]

Also some more obvious proof that the Ancients aren't bound by time, which is nice. Wonder what the free treasures are though besides the Ursa and Earthshaker one.

 

[Shmooply]

Also some more obvious proof that the Ancients aren't bound by time, which is nice. Wonder what the free treasures are though besides the Ursa and Earthshaker one.

im ******* dumb just checked in-game

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Lol at the writing of the blog post, nice that they're siphoning it from TF2 inspired by TF2 blog posts

 

[StretchSebe]

I am behind on watching Dota Blood, but

Also some more obvious proof that the Ancients aren't bound by time, which is nice. Wonder what the free treasures are though besides the Ursa and Earthshaker one.

iirc, the idea behind matches themselves is that although it is the last and most fateful day of the war between the ancients, said day is being repeated over and over with the ever changing arrangements of things like heroes and their builds, which ancient wins, and the map itself, especially as updates change things. Basically the two ancients prolonging the inevitable and/or choosing to fight indefinitely by cycling through every possible reality.

I could have sworn that the update that introduced neutral items, and new neutral creeps alongside the new heroes of void spirit and snapfire suggested that beyond Void Spirit: "Only emerging from his hidden temple into the material plane when he deems that he alone can steer the course of reality along its proper path." That it was said reality was becoming more unstable too, which was the reason he enters the material plane to begin with (the unstableness being due to game updates meta-textually, but specifically in verse changes like map changes, neutral items, later shards, etc.)

In trying to go through the recent updates to find it (and failing), I did find other interesting things though. Primal Beast's update was more stacked than I remembered:

"A creature hatched into an existence devoid of all feeling but hunger and pain, aeons of carnage shaped the Primal Beast into the apex predator on a planet filled with violent terrors. Desperately banished by would-be masters with failed hopes to control him, the Beast was cast into a new world — one where he could ascend from mere hungry predator into an invasive killing machine with nothing able to stand in his way.

For thousands of years, the Mistwood served as undisputed stomping ground for the Beast's destructive play — until one tiny annoyance employed vile trickery to trap the unstoppable Beast in the Gleipnir. There he might have remained subdued for eternity, were it not for the unpredictable powers of the Continuum Device. Now, freed from both Gleipnir and Vault, far afield from the Mistwood, and much closer to inhabited lands, the Beast sets his snout towards new slaughters and the delights of savage destruction — and the paltry fires of civilization will do little to keep this ageless monster at bay."

Primal Beast is quite literally primal.

Also in his update: 'Primal Beast's arrival has imbued jungle creeps everywhere with newfound ferocity and power.'

I'm not claiming they are a literal force of nature, but that's pretty insane that their mere introduction into the main reality of Dota was enough to empower all jungle creeps.

 

[StretchSebe]

Y'all saw the remastered hats for Dota's anniversary? They just redesigned the controversial cowboy hat Ursa set and added a Tormentor skin

Hadn't seen this tho

 

[Shmooply]

iirc, the idea behind matches themselves is that although it is the last and most fateful day of the war between the ancients, said day is being repeated over and over with the ever changing arrangements of things like heroes and their builds, which ancient wins, and the map itself, especially as updates change things. Basically the two ancients prolonging the inevitable and/or choosing to fight indefinitely by cycling through every possible reality.

Yeah, that's already been confirmed.

 

[StretchSebe]

Alright, tomorrow for Drota Blood, I swear. I'm sure there will be a thing or two to calc in just the first few episodes.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Alright, tomorrow for Drota Blood, I swear. I'm sure there will be a thing or two to calc in just the first few episodes.

As someone who has watched all 3 books, I think I can spare you from watching them all and I can compile some feats for you myself, I downloaded all 24 episodes and they're ready to be used for your calc needs

 

[StretchSebe]

As someone who has watched all 3 books, I think I can spare you from watching them all and I can compile some feats for you myself, I downloaded all 24 episodes and they're ready to be used for your calc needs

Oh, thanks. I still feel I should watch it. Been years and I just put it off. Don't watch much tv anyways, but still, I like Dota, and I'm sure it's good.

 

[StretchSebe]

So I watched the first two episodes and noticed some interesting things. Things that don't seem calcable for one reason or another, but definitely superhuman

• Davion being at bare minimum peak human in strength, speed, and durability (the various stuffs he endures and does in the various fights/skirmishes he's in, especially against assumedly athletic level humanoids. You know, besides the fact he's a prolific dragon hunter whose successfully hunted 5 of the 8 types.)
• Davion's supernatural will to resist terrorblade, and later Slyrak after first transforming (assumedly. Seems like that is being expanded upon and confirmed as the first season goes on)
• Mirana's combat speed being above peak human (cinematic time I think. It takes a number of bandits getting shot in the head in various locations before any non-shot bandits even react)
• Davion looking to have low-mid regeneration in human form (again only a couple episodes so far, but it looks like he has it in human form, what with getting stabbed and his wounds recovering).

Gonna keep going anyways, but I think I could take some of the feats that are able to be calc'd on. Need to get that Axe calc evaluated still, but can move onto Dragon Blood stuff regardless.

 

[StretchSebe]

"Once released from corporal fetters, time, space, the Manifold Forms, the pillars of order and chaos dissolve. What awaits the endless universes is a destruction with no hope of regeneration. Absence of nothing. You know not what you are up against."

Also 20 years and 29 souls got DAMN

 

[StretchSebe]

As someone who has watched all 3 books, I think I can spare you from watching them all and I can compile some feats for you myself, I downloaded all 24 episodes and they're ready to be used for your calc needs

So I'm seeing a lot - namely the raw strength, durability, and speed of an elderwyrm - but I have absolutely no frame of reference how to go about calculating it. No official heights, and all. I'd be interested to know what scenes in particular you think would be calculable?

 

[StretchSebe]

Finished Book 1. That was good. Lot happened, and I definitely see the potential in demons and elderwyrms (among other magic users like invoker), but again, I'm not sure how to go about pixel scaling it, and what specifically to pixel scale.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Finished Book 1. That was good. Lot happened, and I definitely see the potential in demons and elderwyrms (among other magic users like invoker), but again, I'm not sure how to go about pixel scaling it, and what specifically to pixel scale.

Nice. There are feats in Book 1 at the top of my head

• Earth dragons burrowing in the earth, and eldwurms like Uldorak making even bigger tunnels by digging, both in Chapter 1
• Air dragon flight speed in Chapter 6 (scales to Mirana and maybe Sagan who can shoot them down and catch them respectively in the same episode)
• Slyvion swinging and sending a bandit flying into a tower, cracking its walls, in Chapter 2
• Slyvion making shockwaves when landing, in Chapter 8
• Lirrak making a big ice wall versus the Invoker (might be outdated since spoilers), in Chapter 7 I think
• There's a feat where the water in the caldera lake where Lirrak was sleeping in was split, I dunno if Invoker's Wex orb did this or if it was Lirrak herself with her power over water. Probably also in Chapter 7
• Luna's Lucent Beams making flaming craters and their speed going from the moon to the earth in Chapter 6 I think

I can see characters like Davion, Mirana, Luna, and Fymryn being 9-C only since the story shows that they are just peak humans. Marci might actually be stronger than them because that's her thing

 

[StretchSebe]

Nice. There are feats in Book 1 at the top of my head

• Earth dragons burrowing in the earth, and eldwurms like Uldorak making even bigger tunnels by digging, both in Chapter 1
• Air dragon flight speed in Chapter 6 (scales to Mirana and maybe Sagan who can shoot them down and catch them respectively in the same episode)
• Slyvion swinging and sending a bandit flying into a tower, cracking its walls, in Chapter 2
• Slyvion making shockwaves when landing, in Chapter 8
• Lirrak making a big ice wall versus the Invoker (might be outdated since spoilers), in Chapter 7 I think
• There's a feat where the water in the caldera lake where Lirrak was sleeping in was split, I dunno if Invoker's Wex orb did this or if it was Lirrak herself with her power over water. Probably also in Chapter 7
• Luna's Lucent Beams making flaming craters and their speed going from the moon to the earth in Chapter 6 I think

I can see characters like Davion, Mirana, Luna, and Fymryn being 9-C only since the story shows that they are just peak humans. Marci might actually be stronger than them because that's her thing

Yeah like I said; there's a lot.

I'm just at a loss of how to pixel scale such happenings due to no official heights being provided, and often having no other frames of reference for average heights of things within the action scenes. For example, maybe that chapter 2 feat with dragon davion cracking a wall there could be a horse nearby, and I could do something like 'average size of horse' to pixel scale, but if not, I'd be pixel scaling in the dark for the most part.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Yeah like I said; there's a lot.

I'm just at a loss of how to pixel scale such happenings due to no official heights being provided, and often having no other frames of reference for average heights of things within the action scenes. For example, maybe that chapter 2 feat with dragon davion cracking a wall there could be a horse nearby, and I could do something like 'average size of horse' to pixel scale, but if not, I'd be pixel scaling in the dark for the most part.

Davion and Kaden look like they're 6 feet tall honestly while Mirana and Marci are short like 5'4 or something. There are stuff you can pixel scale from like the size of a horse that Davion rode and you can probably get his height from that. I also recall the writer saying that Eldwurms are as large as a 2 story building iirc

 

[StretchSebe]

Davion and Kaden look like they're 6 feet tall honestly while Mirana and Marci are short like 5'4 or something. There are stuff you can pixel scale from like the size of a horse that Davion rode and you can probably get his height from that. I also recall the writer saying that Eldwurms are as large as a 2 story building iirc

Oh, that's definitely useful they do have scenes with horses and Davion.

I'll be continuing through to book 2 at some point, but with this considered I can go back and calc stuff that way.

I'd need a source on the Eldwurm thing though, as I'm having trouble finding that in q&a's.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Oh, that's definitely useful they do have scenes with horses and Davion.

I'll be continuing through to book 2 at some point, but with this considered I can go back and calc stuff that way.

I'd need a source on the Eldwurm thing though, as I'm having trouble finding that in q&a's.

Uldorak's size compared to a human on 2nd pic

 

[StretchSebe]

Uldorak's size compared to a human on 2nd pic

Perfect! Now I could pixel scale and go about calcing some feats. Will go back through Book 1 and calc some of those feats with this all.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'm sure there are other shots of humans standing next to Eldwurms, but the clearest one I know is in the next season so you might want to watch that before I show you

 

[StretchSebe]

Going to be getting to Dragon's Blood, but the Axe feat was finally accepted! Heavily downgraded (relatively speaking), but it remains Wall Level, which I think is a good baseline for the lower tiers of the verse. Also, learned how to make blogs more compact with source editing (using [[Media:LINK HERE]] or [[:File:LINK HERE]] instead of just putting images in):

Axe needs a new calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Shmooply]

How should we treat heroes being able to harm Weaver while he's traversing through a wormhole? This thing always bothered me, and I wasn't sure if it should be treated as game mechanics or not, especially when it could be used as more supporting evidence for weavers having Immeasurable speed (see here).

 

[StretchSebe]

Finally through a gauntlet of calcs for Steven Universe, and am going to be revisiting the Dragon Blood stuff from season 1 unless there's a feat more pressing I should do from the later seasons.

How should we treat heroes being able to harm Weaver while he's traversing through a wormhole? This thing always bothered me, and I wasn't sure if it should be treated as game mechanics or not, especially when it could be used as more supporting evidence for weavers having Immeasurable speed (see here).

As for lore, yeah weaver is absolutely much faster than just the 'Massively FTL+' they have on their page.

Firstly, they are part of a species that creates timelines and realities. From someplace outside of time and reality, obviously.

Secondly, Weaver in both official description and lore is credited to being capable of, and explicitly creating their own time/reality, going on to make one after being cast out from the other Weavers. Though vague, they're even stated to be capable of combatting and preventing entities comparable to themselves; 'whose young can quickly devour an entire universe if the Weavers let their attention lapse.'

In game? About as vague in terms of relative power equalization due to the ancients as the rest of the cast.

The official description says Weaver goes into 'micro-wormholes' for their Shukuchi, their Q being: "Opening a gap in spacetime, the Weaver invites 'The Swarm' - young Weavers to latch onto enemies, and nibble away at their armor,' and even Germinate attack being described as 'the fabric of time frays around Skitskurr, occasionally replaying...' but also Weaver can be dust-of-appearanced 'out' of the their micro-wormhole and miss Germinate attack because Windranger "enchants gusts of winds to fight incoming attacks."

Game mechanics are what they are. I think the best we got is lore in whatever forms we have it lmao

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Also try not to rely on gameplay too much. Valve may have this schtick where they try to pack as much story into their gameplay as possible so as to not rely on cutscenes, but they do cross the line into gameplay and story segregation occasionally with the weird irrational stuff that happens in their games

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Finally through a gauntlet of calcs for Steven Universe, and am going to be revisiting the Dragon Blood stuff from season 1 unless there's a feat more pressing I should do from the later seasons.

Bro there is so much shit in the later seasons

 

[StretchSebe]

Hello oh my gosh it's been too long.

Bro there is so much shit in the later seasons

I've been waiting on a bunch of calcs to be evaluated, but I don't think any will be at this point... so I'd still like to do calcs, but I think practically we'd need to work on stuff elsewhere.

Is there anything else we could work on in the meantime? Also forgot if I sent the 9-B axe calc being accepted.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Hello oh my gosh it's been too long.

I've been waiting on a bunch of calcs to be evaluated, but I don't think any will be at this point... so I'd still like to do calcs, but I think practically we'd need to work on stuff elsewhere.

Is there anything else we could work on in the meantime? Also forgot if I sent the 9-B axe calc being accepted.

Frankly Dota 2 is hard to powerscale but Dragon's Blood profiles might be easier. Book 1 feats below

Nice. There are feats in Book 1 at the top of my head

• Earth dragons burrowing in the earth, and eldwurms like Uldorak making even bigger tunnels by digging, both in Chapter 1
• Air dragon flight speed in Chapter 6 (scales to Mirana and maybe Sagan who can shoot them down and catch them respectively in the same episode)
• Slyvion swinging and sending a bandit flying into a tower, cracking its walls, in Chapter 2
• Slyvion making shockwaves when landing, in Chapter 8
• Lirrak making a big ice wall versus the Invoker (might be outdated since spoilers), in Chapter 7 I think
• There's a feat where the water in the caldera lake where Lirrak was sleeping in was split, I dunno if Invoker's Wex orb did this or if it was Lirrak herself with her power over water. Probably also in Chapter 7
• Luna's Lucent Beams making flaming craters and their speed going from the moon to the earth in Chapter 6 I think

I can see characters like Davion, Mirana, Luna, and Fymryn being 9-C only since the story shows that they are just peak humans. Marci might actually be stronger than them because that's her thing

I also forgot a few feats from Book 1

• Kaden's feats versus Slyvion: making a crater on the floor by slamming his void dragon sword and sending him flying into a pillar to collapse it in Chapter 4
• Kaden's feats versus Slyrak where he smashes him through the walls of a fortress and one where the clash between his shield and Slyrak's fire destroys the top of a mountain, making a bigger shockwave that rattles the forest below the mountain in Chapter 4

Have a feeling these are too much for one guy to calc but at least I can help with references like concept art (hell I can post screenshots that are spoilers)