DOOM Immeasurable speed continuation

[Hellscream]

Continuation of Immeasurable speed for DOOM.

"The very first creations molded from the void in Urdak. Seraphs are bound to the Father's will. The angelic creatures helped build the Father's works, assisted his research, and once winged through creation to do the Father's bidding."
ref: https://gyazo.com/00da947e7e9ea43eb5c53db7401321d7

Context: The angelic beings that were created, are tasked by the creator of the verse to do his bidding.

One of the most common arguments that it wasn't referring to "all of creation" but a single point in creation, for which there is a direct statement about it being "all of creation".

"Most favored of all Seraphs was Samur Maykr. It was he who administered worlds, studied divine experiments, and reported progress in all creation. After much time, the Father grew frustrated with his own many divine errors, most vexing of all being Jekkad and its continued slide into discordance. The Father declared he would withdraw from the physical realm to prevent Jekkad's ever increasing power from someday shattering Urdak, and to stop Davoth from absorbing the Father's infinite powers that he so coveted."
ref: https://gyazo.com/b589c775347517ac159e682ff03213b2

And last, the statement of them being able to move through time and space itself, which is supported by the information above.

"These were beings unlike any we had seen before, sword and shield held no weight against them, for the ethereal flesh of these luminous beings seemed unbound by mortality. Able to move through time and space, they held sway over all dominions of the known and unknown dimensions. Through their ways we grew stronger, our society bolstered by their infinite wisdom and all-knowing power, assuring our peoples' safety for all time - in this world and the next"
ref: https://gyazo.com/214041efeb21a3cc85046f31ab12ea8e

So, we have the seraphs, being able to move through ALL of creation, and direct statements of them being able to move through time and space itself.
This should grant them at the very least a possibly immeasurable rating, if not a solid immeasurable rating.

Agree: 4 @Firestorm808 Possibly @DarkDragonMedeus Possibly @KLOL506 Possibly @Thelastmlg Likely, atleast possibly @TheUnshakableOne Possibly @The_Pink_God Possibly @Transcending @Planck69 Possibly @Gasper @LuffyRuffy46307
Neutral: 0
Disagree: 1 @Everything12 @Vietthai96

 

[Firestorm808]

@DarkDragonMedeus

@KLOL506

I can see the possibility. What do you think?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think I can see possibly Immeasurable speed working; Infinite was already accepted via other reasons and traveling through space and time implies they can actively travel forward and backwards in time with ease. And traveling to other timelines in general is also something that doesn't stop them either.

 

[KLOL506]

I can see the possibility here too at a first glance, but if I've made a grave mistake, please do let me know.

For now tho, put me at a very slight lean on agreeing at a "possibly" rating.

 

[Thelastmlg]

i can see it as well, honestly maybe not solid but i think likely could work, if not, possibly at least

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

A "possibly" rating makes more sense to me here.

I see where you could get get immeasurable speed with that "Moving through time and space" statement, but im of the opinion that more evidence would be needed for a more solid rating. It seems inconclusive to me.

 

[Hellscream]

A "possibly" rating makes more sense to me here.

I see where you could get get immeasurable speed with that "Moving through time and space" statement, but im of the opinion that more evidence would be needed for a more solid rating. It seems inconclusive to me.

Noted

 

[Hellscream]

There is more evidence that can be posted that could support it even further, but im fine with a possibly for now.

 

[Everything12]

Immeasurable speed is more than just being able to move through time, that is Time Travel. It is able to act faster than even Infinite speed, able to act before instantaneous attacks/effects or make move causally through time as easy as we would space.

This is not Immeasurable speed, Immeasurable speed is a specific thing that requires stronger and more definitive evidence than just being bale to move through time.

 

[Hellscream]

Immeasurable speed is more than just being able to move through time, that is Time Travel. It is able to act faster than even Infinite speed, able to act before instantaneous attacks/effects or make move causally through time as easy as we would space.

This is not Immeasurable speed, Immeasurable speed is a specific thing that requires stronger and more definitive evidence than just being bale to move through time.

Except for that it's not time travel, but is literally done by flight with their wings.

 

[Hellscream]

You just decided to call it "time travel" while nothing hints towards it being time travel, and the usage of their wings is literally shown to be flight.

 

[Everything12]

Time Travel through the likes of wings is nothing new to fiction, and is not adequate proof for immeasurable speed. As it does not prove you have the necessary reaction and perception speed for immeasurable speed.

 

[Hellscream]

Time Travel through the likes of wings is nothing new to fiction, and is not adequate proof for immeasurable speed. As it does not prove you have the necessary reaction and perception speed for immeasurable speed.

You need to prove that it's time travel though, everything i posted says nothing about any sort of time travel being involved.

 

[Hellscream]

And the fact that the wings are used for literal flight supports my argument. as opposed to "time travel" your interpretation holds no credit whatsoever.

 

[Firestorm808]

Can Immeasurable Speed be used to time travel? Yes.

Time Travel is just the result of the methodology.

One must prove that this Time Travel is not done through Immeasurable Speed.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Can Immeasurable Speed be used to time travel? Yes.

Time Travel is just the result of the methodology.

One must prove that this Time Travel is not done through Immeasurable Speed.

But if it was off scene, you can't prove how it was achieved, no?

 

[The_Pink_God]

Possibly seems fine

 

[Firestorm808]

But if it was off scene, you can't prove how it was achieved, no?

The first agreed speed thread confirmed that his wings don't provide teleporting or use portals.

 

[Hellscream]

Like was said, it's already accepted that there is no usage of teleportation, or use of a portal, nor is the use of time travel ever mentioned at all.

 

[Vietthai96]

No one listed me as disagree??, well my argument is in previous thread bruhh.

But anyway even though i disagree with Immeasurable speed, i also disagree with @Everything12 reasoning, Time Travel via sheer speed is also Immeasurable travelling speed as travel through time is one of Immeasurable speed proterties, and act faster than Infinite Speed is not necessary Immeasurable speed, since speed scaling with A faster than B is a thing or everyone else gonna have Immeasurable speed via being faster than Infinite Speed, it is a supporting reasoning rather than being a main one

Anyway i reason for my disagreement is like in previous thread is the statement of moving through time and space was interpeted too sematically and literally, time and space here is continous in the sentence thus in dictionary it is refering to space-time, so the statement is also move through space-time which in turn is not different than move through universe. Administraing the world, govern all of creation is extremely vague statement which even if combine with other statements to get more contexts it still mean nothing, also leave too much room for wild interpretation.

I also remember about statement Doomguy being one who attack Demon through time and being time-walker, now if we take this statement literally at face value, well it is Immeasurable speed. However my counter argument is that this statement is a metaphor talking about Doomguy battle Demons for eternity as time passing on

@LordGriffin1000 also have good point regarding everything is off-screen thus it leave too much room for wild interpretation

 

[Hellscream]

I find the statement of the slayer being a time-walker less valid and supporting evidence, as opposed to them being able to move through time and space itself, governing all of creation.

The wings are shown to be actually used for flight itself, so it's not interpretation it's directly going off by what's shown.

But i'll put you down as a disagree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just a heads up, while I agree with Qawsed's statement on paper that simply "Traveling through time and space" would simply be Time Travel; All Immeasurable speed people have time travel but not all time travelers are Immeasurable.

But the execution is where I see it fall flat, they already have Infinite speed via other reasons via setting wing in each of the Infinite universes one by one within a finite amount of time. And there is too much vagueness for what "All creation means" though it would mean the entire multiverse. Traveling universes and an infinite amount of one, and could include time periods. But it's weird for a character with Infinite speed to have time travel; and normally I would be skeptical if they were finite speed. But given the consistent feats that are infinite at minimum combined with being able to physically traverse time, I still see no issues with possibly Immeasurable speed.

 

[Hellscream]

Just a heads up, while I agree with Qawsed's statement on paper that simply "Traveling through time and space" would simply be Time Travel; All Immeasurable speed people have time travel but not all time travelers are Immeasurable.

But the execution is where I see it fall flat, they already have Infinite speed via other reasons via setting wing in each of the Infinite universes one by one within a finite amount of time. And there is too much vagueness for what "All creation means" though it would mean the entire multiverse. Traveling universes and an infinite amount of one, and could include time periods. But it's weird for a character with Infinite speed to have time travel; and normally I would be skeptical if they were finite speed. But given the consistent feats that are infinite at minimum combined with being able to physically traverse time, I still see no issues with possibly Immeasurable speed.

Yes, this is where the argument for a possibly rating comes from.

 

[Transcending]

I agree naturally

 

[Hellscream]

bump

 

[Gasper]

This clearly won't get accepted. One staff disagrees and all reasoning goes to trash.

 

[The_Pink_God]

My guy
2 staff agrees
What are you talking about

 

[Gasper]

My guy
2 staff agrees
What are you talking about

Yeah, but 1 disagrees. That's my point, no matter how many of them agrees, that one who disagrees will always win.

And btw, i am not saying he shouldn't be upgraded, i actually agree.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, but 1 disagrees. That's my point, no matter how many of them agrees, that one who disagrees will always win.

Not how it works, m8, you need a Purple Name for that to work.

 

[KLOL506]

This clearly needs more staff input so what the ****.

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Lonkitt @Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @Maverick_Zero_X @Elizhaa @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @GyroNutz @Sir_Ovens @ByAsura @Starter_Pack @SamanPatou What do you think of the current proposals?

 

[Planck69]

Possibly Immeasurable works for me.

 

[Hellscream]

Yeah, but 1 disagrees. That's my point, no matter how many of them agrees, that one who disagrees will always win.

And btw, i am not saying he shouldn't be upgraded, i actually agree.

I don't get that reasoning but yeah, one staff disagreement is not enough

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

How is this not a range feat?

 

[Hellscream]

How is it a range feat?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

How is it a range feat?

Other verses have similar statements and it was decided to be range. I would like to know how is this different.

 

[Hellscream]

Because they're travelling the distance?..

We're talking about infinite amounts of distance

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

to me it looks good, so I agree with immeasurable speed.

 

[Vietthai96]

I still hard disagree, however, if Doom get Possibly Immeasurable speed because of single vague statement like this, then Sailor Moom should get the same rating because having better evidences

 

[Firestorm808]

I still hard disagree, however, if Doom get Possibly Immeasurable speed because of single vague statement like this, then Sailor Moom should get the same rating because having better evidences

I don't know what Sailor Moon stuff you're talking about or the context, but feel free to review the prior SM threads to draft a new one.

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't know what Sailor Moon stuff you're talking about or the context, but feel free to review the prior SM threads to draft a new one.

I'm not SM suppoters, however since i'm the one who disagreed with SM Immeasurable speed, and this Doom thread have one similar statement and get possibly rating, then for the sake of fairness, SM should get one too

Other verses have similar statements and it was decided to be range. I would like to know how is this different.

Feel free to make SM thread, if Doom get the speed rating