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Doom Eternal - The Ancient Gods - Part Two CRT (Spoilers Ahead)

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Sir_Ovens said:
You do realize Hell is a living breathing creature with actual AP right? Hell being an extension of his power would mean constant 2-B output always. This is not ED, this is actual AP we're talking about.
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Yes, it still wouldnt scale
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Okay but that not only goes against all of the context of the DLC but outright spits in the face of our standards. We need proof in order to scale the creation feats to physicals, something that does not exist outside of assumptions and guesswork. The fact that we literally do not know how he would have done it means we have to rely on Occam's Razor to determine the most likely outcome, and given that he does not demonstrate tier 2 feats of destruction at any point in the game and he explicitly used an army and planned to wage war on creation rather than outright destroying it instantly, it dictates that he was not going to destroy it in a physical manner using 2-B physical or general power and was rathr going to destroy it in a manner of 'im going to destroy the world', wiping out everything in it over time using his armies and the physical power he did possess, power on par with the Slayer.
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We have proof. He states he will destroy it all. Wiping out each individual realm 1 at a time with some kind of casual physical movement.
WeeklyBattles said:
As for the Primevils that would be a feat of Destabilization, which no longr scales to AP feats as per our new standards. Same with Hell being an extension, would scal to creation butnot general AP
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It's not Destabilization because Primevals do not stabilize their realms.
 
Axxtentacle said:
Davoth created everything by moving through the void of existence. Weekly made the claim that he will destroy everything he created the same way that he created it, which means he created every realm at least 1 at a time, and that he will destroy them the same way, 1 at a time. In order to do this, he needs to destroy every single realm that he created in order to properly destroy everything. Meaning he has to destroy Hell, an at least 2-B structure, which is possibly far higher.

He specifically states HE unmake it, not his armies, not anything else. Him. By HIS hand all things were made, and they shall be unmade.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Honestly, can we just go with Oven's proposal and call it a day? This seemed to have gone for far too long then it should of had, and he's the closet thing to a middle man here.

This has seriously gotten out of control.
 
Gewsbumpz_dude said:
Honestly, can we just go with Oven's proposal and call it a day? This seemed to have gone for far too long then it should of had, and he's the closet thing to a middle man here.

This has seriously gotten out of control.
Click to expand...
There are still a lot of issues with Ovens' proposal
 
DTG499 said:
It’s not a summon, he made with his power and it’s stated to be and part of his power.
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Thats whata summon is, yes. If he has greater creation power than physical power then yeah it being part of his creation power whil not scalig to physical powr would make total sense
 
WeeklyBattles said:
You havent provided any support

So youre basically claiming youre above the rules
Click to expand...
Already did.

I did here.
Axxtentacle said:
Davoth created everything by moving through the void of existence. Weekly made the claim that he will destroy everything he created the same way that he created it, which means he created every realm at least 1 at a time, and that he will destroy them the same way, 1 at a time. In order to do this, he needs to destroy every single realm that he created in order to properly destroy everything. Meaning he has to destroy Hell, an at least 2-B structure, which is possibly far higher.

He specifically states HE unmake it, not his armies, not anything else. Him. By HIS hand all things were made, and they shall be unmade.
Click to expand...
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Thats whata summon is, yes. If he has greater creation power than physical power then yeah it being part of his creation power whil not scalig to physical powr would make total sense
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You need to explain yourself further than that. You are making no sense. Hell is listed as 2-B because it is sentient and Davoth would scale above hell because all the previous statements.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Did he destroy Hell with a punch? Or an energyblast? If not it would be treated the same way as people who use Summoning but dont scale to their summons
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it's both stated he's created the realm, and that the realms power is an extension of his own, it's not summoning, it's blatant upscaling to another character.
 
Axxtentacle said:
Already did.

I did here.
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You realize thats a rule violation right? An outright declaration of being above the rules of the wiki is a major offense

If he created it by walking and would destroy it by walking that would just be a feat of reality warping/existence erasure
 
I think the problem here is believing that we need to show an on-screen tier 2 feat to place these guys as tier 2. The fact of the matter is, we don't. we have enough evidence to at the very least push a possibly and Weekly disagreeing with us will only end in circles.

Seeing as neither side will back down, I opt for an unbiased opinion. I will invite some staff members to come take a look at this and see what they say.
 
DTG499 said:
You need to explain yourself further than that. You are making no sense. Hell is listed as 2-B because it is sentient and Davoth would scale above hell because all the previous statements.
Click to expand...
If a normal human wizard creates a living universe with his magic, what tier would he be?
 
If he can't respond to my point which pushes his own narrative, I see no reason to go with any compromise.

WeeklyBattles said:
You realize thats a rule violation right? An outright declaration of being above the rules of the wiki is a major offense

If he created it by walking and would destroy it by walking that would just be a feat of reality warping/existence erasure
Click to expand...
No, he created it with a casual physical movement. You were the one that claimed it would be the same.

I also never claimed I was above the rules. I said that was only ONE possible supporting piece of evidence you would need, which is actually confirmed.

Sir_Ovens said:
I think the problem here is believing that we need to show an on-screen tier 2 feat to place these guys as tier 2. The fact of the matter is, we don't. we have enough evidence to at the very least push a possibly and Weekly disagreeing with us will only end in circles.

Seeing as neither side will back down, I opt for an unbiased opinion. I will invite some staff members to come take a look at this and see what they say.
Click to expand...
Reading this, i'm ok with that. Nevermind what I first said.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
If he created it by walking and would destroy it by walking that would just be a feat of reality warping/existence erasure
Click to expand...
You have been SO picky about doom’s lack of statements about certain things. But you are now saying that Davoth has reality warping and EE, when it’s never been stated that he has those powers?
 
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Gewsbumpz_dude said:
Weekly. Stop. You're one of the reasons why this has gotten out of control in the first place. This needs to end, and Ovens seems to be the best choice here because both sides are starting to look bad at this point.
Click to expand...
Thats a fancy way of saying 'youre the one disagreeing with our wank, stop and let us wank Doom in peace.'
 
DTG499 said:
You have been SO picky about doom’s lack of statements about certain things. But you now saying that Davoth has reality warping and EE, when it’s never been stated that he has those powers?
Click to expand...
Correct, that in and of itself is an assumption
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Its creation thatwouldnt scale to physicals
Click to expand...
I'm not arguing about him creating the realm though. That's not my point.

My point is that Hell as a character, is 2-B. This is as a character, not a realm.
Davoth, as another character, scales above hell's power through it being a portion of his own.

This isn't me saying davoth is greater than hell because he made it. This is me saying davoth power is greater than the power possessed by the entity hell, as it's directly stated to be a fraction of his own.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
I think the problem here is believing that we need to show an on-screen tier 2 feat to place these guys as tier 2. The fact of the matter is, we don't. we have enough evidence to at the very least push a possibly and Weekly disagreeing with us will only end in circles.
Click to expand...
Except we do, its written clearly in the creation feats page
 
KieranH10 said:
I'm not arguing about him creating the realm though. That's not my point.

My point is that He'll as a character, is 2-B. This is as a character, not a realm.
Davoth, as another character, scales above hell's power through it being a portion of his own.

This isn't me saying davoth is greater than hell because he made it. This is me saying davoth power is greater than the power possessed by the entity hell, as it's directly stated to be a fraction of his own.
Click to expand...
Cool, 2-A creation power would logically be ablv the powr of a 2-B realm. Thatdoesnt mean the character with 2-A creation powers is automatically 2-A physically
 
to quote medeus again:

"It doesn't have to be pure destruction, but that is one of several optional things to back it up. Whether it be lore on universal energy sources or simply showing the ability to shake their own creations with physical strikes are also possible back up feats."
 
Cyberblader90 said:
to quote medeus again:

"It doesn't have to be pure destruction, but that is one of several optional things to back it up. Whether it be lore on universal energy sources or simply showing the ability to shake their own creations with physical strikes are also possible back up feats."
Click to expand...
Universal energy sources ar explicitly stated to not scale to general AP, literally on th Creation Feats page
 
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