Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers inbound)

[Lacku]

Best of luck in your exams bro!
Don't stress focus on yourself and get it done when you're able. Can't wait to see the pages all finished!

ayy thanks man I'll try my best

 

[Luigi3645]

Is that stated anywhere?

No but it's clear in the films he demonstrates skills he never did previously.
Maybe he did know them and just never needed to use them, but that's never been stated either.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

No but it's clear in the films he demonstrates skills he never did previously.
Maybe he did know them and just never needed to use them, but that's never been stated either.

I mean he did view the events, all 14,000,605, that would happen from between the Battle of Titan to the Final Battle in Endgame, and kept reinforcing that there was only one where they would win.

 

[Armorchompy]

Extrasensory Perception and Enhanced Senses (Performed a spell which made Gargantos visible)

This is invisibility negation i think

 

[Luigi3645]

I mean he did view the events, all 14,000,605, that would happen from between the Battle of Titan to the Final Battle in Endgame, and kept reinforcing that there was only one where they would win.

That doesn't necessarily imply he had the skills prior to Post-Blip.
Although 14,000,605 timelines would be more than enough to learn a few things on the way
The MCU Wiki also shows that MoM takes place in 2024, another year after Endgame and NWH so that's another year to learn skills too.

 

[Luigi3645]

This is invisibility negation i think

In the comics the Eye can perceive the unseen which is EP.
Could be negation but he sensed its presence even before visible (kinda hard not to when its tearing through the city though haha).

 

[Armorchompy]

In the comics the Eye can perceive the unseen which is EP.

Well yeah but I think other people straight-up react to the monster becoming visible, not to mention if it was EP it'd be passive

 

[Luigi3645]

Well yeah but I think other people straight-up react to the monster becoming visible, not to mention if it was EP it'd be passive

I'm not sure if it would count as one or the other I'll leave it to the admins to determine.
Totally see where you're coming from though.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Ah **** that also made me remember the damned souls thing was a resistance to soul manip since they were trying to drag these fools souls and didn't really attack in a AP capacity

Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think that's Stranges profile updates done now more or less, I'm happy with it but if there's anything I should change or fix let me know

Seeing Strange being tier 8 at best

 

[Dalesean027]

Seeing Strange being tier 8 at best

To be fair he has possibly far higher because discussion for tier 6 is still open

 

[ArkhamDC06]

To be fair he has possibly far higher because discussion for tier 6 is still open

Hope so (gonna have to change the Sinister Strange rating)

Aside from that, the draft Lacku provided is very good I think

 

[Dalesean027]

Hope so (gonna have to change the Sinister Strange rating)

Aside from that, the draft Lacku provided is very good I think

Not necessarily if people make a good enough case for 6-C strange when the CRT is being done then it's possible it just had to use the right stuff

 

[ArkhamDC06]

True, still gonna add the Resistance to Mind Manip though (what's the justification, simply something like "Sorcerers can protect their mind against mental intrusions"?)

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

The ragnarok render for Strange just made me realize it looks like he's wearing kitchen gloves in ragnarok

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Great, now I can't unsee an image of Strange doing the dishes in his free time but with his sorcerer outfit

 

[Dalesean027]

True, still gonna add the Resistance to Mind Manip though (what's the justification, simply something like "Sorcerers can protect their mind against mental intrusions"?)

Since that'll be on every sorcerers first keys and carry over on them it can just be said that even novice and fodder sorcerers are taught how to resist mind manip and in have shown to do so against the scarlet witch with strange and wong being able to do the same(can just keep the first part only for mordo and the ancient one)

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I wrote "His Sacred Timeline counterpart and Wong were able to fortify their mind against the Scarlet Witch's mental intrusion during her attack on Kamar-Taj, Sinister Strange should be able to do the same"

 

[Dalesean027]

I wrote "His Sacred Timeline counterpart and Wong were able to fortify their mind against the Scarlet Witch's mental intrusion during her attack on Kamar-Taj, Sinister Strange should be able to do the same"

That works I suppose we can save the explanation that even the fodder can and had been taught to resist mind manip for the CRT

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Yep, btw when are making it?

Also, not the thread to talk about but since I've recieved no answers to that, any news about the Elden Ring calcs?

 

[Dalesean027]

Yep, btw when are making it?

I suppose when we finally finish getting everything sorted here which we're basically done with since all that's left really is to add some missing abilities and justifications then just do one last check over it all ig and put it out which can probably happen this week I mean I don't see why not

 

[Dalesean027]

Here's everything I could find so far

@ArkhamDC06 Sinister Strange Blog which is missing a few abilities

Sinister Strange (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

vsbattles.fandom.com

@Lacku Strange's updated profile sandbox which is missing lots of his new abilities

Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

@Lacku America Chavez profile as well(range should be multiverse+ as well)

Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

@AbaddonTheDisappointment calc blog for the feats that's been accepted

Multiverse of Madness Calcs

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Wanda lifts the Castle: 49953888.7744 kg (Class M)
• America punches Wanda and parts clouds: 1.6400975e+12 J (Multi-City Block level)
• Black Bolt destroys the ground (Low End): 168926864.95 J (Small Building level)
• Black Bolt destroys the ground (High End): 1456994210.19 J (Building level)

This calc @Lacku found that'll be used to solidify Strange's (and other sorcerers) early AP tier

Even More What If Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

• 0.15484627333 tons of tnt (Small Building level+)

We for the most part have the scaling intact though there's still room for more discussion to just solidify for good what we want to go with for strange (Also scaling Wong to 8-C since he's comparable to strange?)

These renders for Wanda and Chavez

We've got this article courtesy of @M3X (WHAT THE **** I JUST FOUND OUT HE QUIT THE WIKI)

https://www.cbr.com/doctor-strange-2-scarlet-witch-not-full-power-marvel/

The article stated this:

We decided that the limitation is that she's not in her body," Olsen revealed. "She's in a less-oiled version of her body. So it's not capable of doing as much as our universe's Wanda could do, because it's more about using the body like a not-so-tuned-up car. I wanted it to be easier, but it was amazing to get to have those moments."



meaning this and in M3X's own words

"The alternate universe Wanda can't use Scarlet Witch's full power, it's simple as that. Since she can't use Scarlet Witch's full power because of the body, she is weaker. Same applies for Strange. It's a dead and rotten body. Though you have a point about being amped by the Darkhold, despite being inconsistent since Sinister Strange had the Darkhold since... years? And still somewhat comparable to our Strange.
The spell Strange and Wanda used are the same, they used the Darkhold to use the possession. If Wanda is weaker using a different body, Strange should also be weaker when possessing a (dead) body.
Maaaybe we can downscale regular Doctor Strange to 6-C? Can somewhat match Wanda despite being weaker and should be stronger than possessed Defender Strange, and the Thanos fight."


In terms of new abilities I'll need some help getting everything discussed here but at the very least we have this

Wanda:

Astral Projection and Possession (Possessed a different version of herself from another universe to battle the Illuminati)

Power Absorption

Deconstruction and or Existence Erasure

Technology Manipulation(could prevent christine from releasing chavez by glitching the panel to the cell)

Resistance to Soul Manip

Multiversal+ Range with dreamwalking and EE(or Deconstruction)

Maybe more I've missed?

Strange:

Astral Projection and Possession (Possessed a different version of herself from another universe to battle Wanda) (he already has Astral Projection so anyway)

Summoning (Summoned mystics snakes to attack Wanda, he summoned a gigantic beast to knock one of the buses away from a woman and her baby and formed ******** hands to tear the pole off and kill Gargantos)

New justifications for his power absorption, capable of absorbing America Chavez ability to travel through universes, as seen by Defender Strange doing it.

Invisibility Negation (Performed a spell which made Gargantos visible)

Telekinesis (Bus ability feat unless we want to consider that a new justification for reality warping potentially fusionism?)

Sound Manipulation (Was able to create tangible musical notes made of Eldritch Magic's energy to attack his alternate self during their duel),

Body Control (Can make a third eye appear on his forehead)

Illusion Creation (Coerced Wanda into the Mirror Dimension with an illusion of himself)

Cloth Manipulation (CAN change his clothes into anything and can even make the cloak into a pretty nifty scarf.)

Resistance to Soul Manip

New range justification for Multiverese+ with dreamwalking

Wong: got some new stuff as well if anyone remembers what send it this way




ALL SORCERORS

Receive Resistances to Mind Manipulation on their first or only keys as even fodder sorcerers are trained in how to resist mind manip


There's more abilities than you guys can fill in and we can move onto the next step of formatting stuff

Updated

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

The ragnarok render for Strange just made me realize it looks like he's wearing kitchen gloves in ragnarok

I want those ******* gloves back, they were perfect (Strange's role in the movie was small, so he's probably wearing them to save time on not applying scar make-up on Strange's hands...I still want them back)

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Strange should get longevity. It was said by the Russo's that he had to live through every single outcome to find a way to defeat Thanos. Even if 0.01% of those outcomes, had he had to experience the 5 year gap between Infinity War and Endgame, 0.01% of the 14,000,605 x 5 is just over 7000 years.

The directing pair answered a fan question which read: ‘When Doctor Strange is seeing all the scenarios for how the war could end, does he see it like a montage or a movie?’

In response, Anthony said: ‘Strange has to exert an immense amount of energy to go into state, the amount of time he’s in the state – as we know from his own standalone film – he could be in that state for who knows how long, so it could have taken Strange an immensely long time to actually review all those scenarios.’

‘He has to physically live them,’ adds Joe, ‘and then die in each one and right before he dies he has to reset and do it again, and take copious notes as he goes.’ Source

 

[Dalesean027]

Strange should get longevity. It was said by the Russo's that he had to live through every single outcome to find a way to defeat Thanos. Even if 0.01% of those outcomes, had he had to experience the 5 year gap between Infinity War and Endgame, 0.01% of the 14,000,605 x 5 is just over 7000 years.

Okay I'll add it to the list when I get off work and get some sleep though that won't be for another 6 hours lol

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Okay I'll add it to the list when I get off work and get some sleep though that won't be for another 6 hours lol

Take your time dude, irl stuff comes first ofc, and there's no rush.

 

[Luigi3645]

I think a good case could be made for Strange being at least 6-C.
Durability is a cert because he took hits from Wanda and was able to repel some of her attacks with his shields.
Secondly some of his attacks did seem to genuinely get her worried, like the serpents or the horde of the souls of the damned (and that seemed to overwhelm her for a little bit and he easily killed Gargantos by ripping out his eye (not sure to Gargantos scales to though but it should be comparable).
Finally, the mere fact he was able to take on Thanos (wielding four Infinity Stones) without needing to rely on the Time Stone should put him within this range (remember how Thanos had to actually dodge his energy attack rather than just tank it? Seemed like he could tell that hit would have got him pretty bad if he tried to). There's also the fact that they say the Darkhold does grant you significant power, but at a cost (i.e. Strange's third eye) so he could be just as strong if not stronger than Wanda at this point.

 

[Dalesean027]

On break but also curious when we do- nevermind

I think a good case could be made for Strange being at least 6-C.
Durability is a cert because he took hits from Wanda and was able to repel some of her attacks with his shields.
Secondly some of his attacks did seem to genuinely get her worried, like the serpents or the horde of the souls of the damned (and that seemed to overwhelm her for a little bit and he easily killed Gargantos by ripping out his eye (not sure to Gargantos scales to though but it should be comparable).
Finally, the mere fact he was able to take on Thanos (wielding four Infinity Stones) without needing to rely on the Time Stone should put him within this range (remember how Thanos had to actually dodge his energy attack rather than just tank it? Seemed like he could tell that hit would have got him pretty bad if he tried to). There's also the fact that they say the Darkhold does grant you significant power, but at a cost (i.e. Strange's third eye) so he could be just as strong if not stronger than Wanda at this point.

It's already been answered before I asked

 

[Dalesean027]

I think a good case could be made for Strange being at least 6-C.
Durability is a cert because he took hits from Wanda and was able to repel some of her attacks with his shields.
Secondly some of his attacks did seem to genuinely get her worried, like the serpents or the horde of the souls of the damned (and that seemed to overwhelm her for a little bit and he easily killed Gargantos by ripping out his eye (not sure to Gargantos scales to though but it should be comparable).
Finally, the mere fact he was able to take on Thanos (wielding four Infinity Stones) without needing to rely on the Time Stone should put him within this range (remember how Thanos had to actually dodge his energy attack rather than just tank it? Seemed like he could tell that hit would have got him pretty bad if he tried to). There's also the fact that they say the Darkhold does grant you significant power, but at a cost (i.e. Strange's third eye) so he could be just as strong if not stronger than Wanda at this point.

You could add this to your justifications if you want

We've got this article courtesy of @M3X (WHAT THE **** I JUST FOUND OUT HE QUIT THE WIKI)
https://www.cbr.com/doctor-strange-2-scarlet-witch-not-full-power-marvel/
The article stated this:

We decided that the limitation is that she's not in her body," Olsen revealed. "She's in a less-oiled version of her body. So it's not capable of doing as much as our universe's Wanda could do, because it's more about using the body like a not-so-tuned-up car. I wanted it to be easier, but it was amazing to get to have those moments."



meaning this and in M3X's own words

"The alternate universe Wanda can't use Scarlet Witch's full power, it's simple as that. Since she can't use Scarlet Witch's full power because of the body, she is weaker. Same applies for Strange. It's a dead and rotten body. Though you have a point about being amped by the Darkhold, despite being inconsistent since Sinister Strange had the Darkhold since... years? And still somewhat comparable to our Strange.
The spell Strange and Wanda used are the same, they used the Darkhold to use the possession. If Wanda is weaker using a different body, Strange should also be weaker when possessing a (dead) body

 

[Armorchompy]

Strange should get longevity. It was said by the Russo's that he had to live through every single outcome to find a way to defeat Thanos. Even if 0.01% of those outcomes, had he had to experience the 5 year gap between Infinity War and Endgame, 0.01% of the 14,000,605 x 5 is just over 7000 years.

"‘He has to physically live them,’ adds Joe, ‘and then die in each one and right before he dies he has to reset and do it again"

But like, if his body is reset then it's not living that long. It's just a mental thing.

 

[Dalesean027]

It's possible to live forever with the timestone as seen with supreme strange but since our strange is just looping it won't be the same thing basically since he's reseting


Anywho gtg my break is basically over

 

[Luigi3645]

You could add this to your justifications if you want

That's definitely a good point to prove the "at least 6-C" tiering.
MoM certainly proved that Wanda and Stephen are on equal footing in skill and power, it just manifests in different ways.
Wanda is stronger and more ruthless, while Strange is more resourceful and clever

 

[Armorchompy]

equal? she whoops his ass every time

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Nah, Wanda has far more raw power while Strange is far more skilled and inventive, Wanda is above, they're not comparable

Still, I believe Luigi's post is good enough to warrant a 6-C tier, though not an "at least"

 

[Armorchompy]

which post?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I think a good case could be made for Strange being at least 6-C.
Durability is a cert because he took hits from Wanda and was able to repel some of her attacks with his shields.
Secondly some of his attacks did seem to genuinely get her worried, like the serpents or the horde of the souls of the damned (and that seemed to overwhelm her for a little bit and he easily killed Gargantos by ripping out his eye (not sure to Gargantos scales to though but it should be comparable).
Finally, the mere fact he was able to take on Thanos (wielding four Infinity Stones) without needing to rely on the Time Stone should put him within this range (remember how Thanos had to actually dodge his energy attack rather than just tank it? Seemed like he could tell that hit would have got him pretty bad if he tried to). There's also the fact that they say the Darkhold does grant you significant power, but at a cost (i.e. Strange's third eye) so he could be just as strong if not stronger than Wanda at this point.

This one (I do disagree with Strange being equal to Wanda and he's certainly not stronger)

 

[Popted2]

yeah Strange is weaker but still 6-C, wich is good

 

[Luigi3645]

This one (I do disagree with Strange being equal to Wanda and he's certainly not stronger)

Maybe he's not stronger but he's definitely comparable. He's at least superior to Wong who IS the Sorcerer Supreme.
And as I say the Darkhold DID give him a power boost so he's probably within "6-C" range at this point. Maybe not "at least" though I read your justification and it's on point!

 

[Popted2]

Maybe he's not stronger but he's definitely comparable. He's at least superior to Wong who IS the Sorcerer Supreme.
And as I say the Darkhold DID give him a power boost so he's probably within "6-C" range at this point. Maybe not "at least" though I read your justification and it's on point!

probably comparable,

also he is Superior to Wong

 

[Luigi3645]

equal? she whoops his ass every time

But he's also the only sorcerer to get the better of her. He traps her in the Mirror Dimension, distracts her with the serpents, manages to block her attacks and then of course the climax where he puts up one hell of a fight against her and (briefly) overwhelms her.
Maybe "equal" was the wrong word to use, but Strange is definitely on a similar tier to Wanda at this stage.

 

[Armorchompy]

Meh no, I don't agree

I think a good case could be made for Strange being at least 6-C.
Durability is a cert because he took hits from Wanda and was able to repel some of her attacks with his shields.

I mean, shields I guess yeah but by her own admission Wanda is somewhat holding back in most fights. And surely you don't wanna scale his actual physical durability to 6-C since that would upgrade spider-man characters and his own SS to 6-C.

Secondly some of his attacks did seem to genuinely get her worried, like the serpents

Serpents took her off-guard for a second but she got rid of them fairly quickly (and it was done with Wong's help), Wanda's durability isn't 6-C so I don't really see why that'd scale to anything but that.

or the horde of the souls of the damned

Was done with the Darkhold, don't think that scales to his normal magic.

(and that seemed to overwhelm her for a little bit and he easily killed Gargantos by ripping out his eye (not sure to Gargantos scales to though but it should be comparable).

Gargantos is just a summon, no statement he was empowering her or anything. And again, Gargantos/Shuma-Gorath is Wanda's version of holding back, it isn't the strongest thing she can do.

Finally, the mere fact he was able to take on Thanos (wielding four Infinity Stones) without needing to rely on the Time Stone should put him within this range (remember how Thanos had to actually dodge his energy attack rather than just tank it? Seemed like he could tell that hit would have got him pretty bad if he tried to).

This was rejected before, most of what Strange does in that fight is hax. Not that Thanos is particularly knowledgeable in magic to begin with.

There's also the fact that they say the Darkhold does grant you significant power, but at a cost (i.e. Strange's third eye) so he could be just as strong if not stronger than Wanda at this point.

With the Darkhold, sure, but he doesn't have that in his possession anymore, we don't know if he kept all or even most of the power just because the side effects stuck.