DMC - Serious hax downgrade.

[LordGinSama]

Okay, so I left this verse alone for a bit and this happens? The amount of garbage in the profiles are something that don’t make a lot of sense, and I'll start first and foremost with this thread. This thread was made of as recently to get rid of Type 4 Acausality, and the reasons for it being denied were silly to say the least.

Issues with Type 4

---

Okay, now let's dive into some serious issues regarding the "reasons" for this being accepted.

• Acausality (Type 4): The Demon World has a different flow of time, laws of physics, laws of gravity and has stated to have every laws different from the Human World, which also would include the laws that govern all of reality. Demons are unaffected by the Beasthead's assimilation process, which is capable to bind the fates of humans to himself to never let them escape and to devour them.

Almost instantly we can see the obvious issues here, the first being that "Working on a different flow of time." isn't any indication of being Acausal, time is something temporal and completely separate from Causality, so that shouldn't even be used as a form of evidence. Being on a different Temporal system =/= Type 4.


The Laws of Physics and the laws of Gravity are also two completely separate things from Causality, so again these shouldn't even be used as a form of evidence of them working on a different Causality system. Now let's tackle the last part of the supposed "Evidence"


The world is trembling. As one historian put it, this world is so fragile in its foundation that it cannot accept beings that do not follow its laws. So what would happen to the world if an alien being were to be forcibly inserted? The answer is about to appear here, right now. Hailstones I thought the end of the world was going to be a bit loud and boisterous. Dante held his gun in his hands and looked up at the head of the giant beast that occupied the sky, fearlessly and provocatively. As he said, the world is quiet. No, if you value accuracy more, that might not be a very apt description. Rather than quiet, I would say that every sound - not just sound, but every living thing, large and small - has been robbed of its life in the "world" that surrounds it. The waves do not whisper, but stand still as if frozen. The wind has stopped, the air is heavy and stagnant, and only gravity is pulling and weighing down on it. The earth has lost its warmth, and the ground beneath us is like a thick layer of ice. It's not bad, but it's a little too gloomy. Let's have some fun, demon.


As we can see, no mention of a different system of Causality was ever mentioned, which is a requirement. The Causality system needs to have been stated to work on a different system, this isn't something you can assume even if the term "everything" is mentioned, which it isn't here, again a different system of Causality needs to be directly stated. Proof Here and I also find it funny that all of this was added despite the addition being rejected when it was brought up.


Low to Mid-tier Demon Resistances

---

Some of these i also take issues with, as some again were added to the page despite nobody agreeing with them and most of the additions being rejected.

Demons in general are Resistant to the following:

• Reality Warping, Biological Manipulation, Transmutation, Matter Manipulation (Atomic Level), Size Manipulation, Petrification, Soul Manipulation and Fate Manipulation: Demons are immune to the Beasthead's assimilation process, which is capable of warping reality in various ways

If the Resistance to Matter Manipulation comes from the Beam stuff, DontTalk has already explained why this isn't a resistance, and as for Fate Manipulation that's unsupported and has inconsistencies. The Cube was still able to Fate hax Dante a bunch of times, so again I see no resistance to Fate Manipulation.

• Law Manipulation: Demons live in the Demon World, where every law is different from the Human World, which would also include the laws that govern reality.

Expect for one, this isn't a resistance. Living somewhere with different laws isn't the same as being resistant to a law being applied directly TO you, and as I said before the "Laws of Reality" part is never even stated and is entirely made up.


Dante

---

And I also have issues with the additions to Dante's profile whenever they were never accepted.



Analytical Prediction (Is capable of noticing patterns in his opponent's style and adapt to fight accordingly, even against demons that have command of techniques that allow them to perceive patterns far beyond his opponent's abilities)


For starters, the Vergil feat can't be used as citation for Analytical Prediction as Dante has fought against him many times and naturally knows his moveset and fighting style due to having had clashed against him several times.


The second part has to do with Gilver and at no point did Dante use a form of Prediction in the match, he saw an opening in Gil's attacks and went for it, this isn't Dante predicting several steps ahead to do so he's just going for an opening he noticed. This is something that every MC in Shonen does, yet we don't give them any form of Prediction.

Enhanced Regeneration (Low-Godly; scales from Nelo Angelo, who can regen after complete destruction of his body, although since the time frame is not specified, this regen is non combat applicable)


Again this is complete out of the equation, NOBODY has ever accepted this and literally in the thread it was brought up in nobody agreed to it. Not to mention there's no evidence that Nelo's body was destroyed past a Atomic Level, so again this is just people adding in random powers and abilities, without them ever have gotten accepted.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree
hope you have better luck in getting this accepted

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Here before the FRA trains.

 

[Rocker1189]

Watching.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I see you mention that some of the things hadn't been accepted or were outright rejected. I haven't kept up with DMC in a while, so I'd like to see the proof for that.

Aside from that, I'm neutral on the OP, for now.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I agree with the removal of type 4.

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

The justification given has nothing to do with causality at all from what I can tell.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Neutral, Following.

 

[Shmooply]

Oh for ***** sake not the acausality stuff again

This argument has already been debunked in this thread.

Although I do agree with the removal of resistance to matter and law hax. Neutral on the other stuff for now.

 

[Arcker123]

Neutral on the acuasality, agree with everything else.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Acausality type 4 stuff

Already got debunked, thank you. Not only that but your "proof" is a bleach thread where the OP got salty and deleted everything, so I can't properly say what was denied. The comments mostly go about the concept of life and death and that is far from what we have here as proof and it is everything together that works for the acausality.

You would look better bringing something exactly like DMC and having it being rejected instead of your childish tamtrum over there.

"Being described as existing outside of/being an irregularity in Fate or Causality is normally likely to give it. There are some words and phrase that do frequently grant it as well, but that's only depending on the context of said phrase and needs to be looked at case by case; such as existing outside the flow of time"

Even in the QnA thread you linked, its not necessary to get beyond causality stuff when there are other alternatives. Even a staff member who has not the best opinion of the verse agreed that it is legit in the thread Setsuna made.

If the Resistance to Matter Manipulation comes from the Beam stuff, DontTalk has already explained why this isn't a resistance,

That's part of the Beastheads assimilation process tho, thing that every demon is immune to.

and as for Fate Manipulation that's unsupported and has inconsistencies. The Cube was still able to Fate hax Dante a bunch of times, so again I see no resistance to Fate Manipulation

And the verse is better off without you considering you don't even know this.

1) this is part of the beastheads powers, not the dice.

2) Dante was never haxed by it, he destroyed the dice lol, it was Nero the one that got forced to play.

3) Exactly how is this inconsistent with what we have seen and know of the verse?

Expect for one, this isn't a resistance. Living somewhere with different laws isn't the same as being resistant to a law being applied directly TO you, and as I said before the "Laws of Reality" part is never even stated and is entirely made up.

Did you miss the part where Demons don't follow the laws of the (human) world? You even quoted that. Not following the laws of the world = not being affected by them.

That is called resistance here dud.

The second part has to do with Gilver and at no point did Dante use a form of Prediction in the match, he saw an opening in Gil's attacks and went for it, this isn't Dante predicting several steps ahead to do so he's just going for an opening he noticed. This is something that every MC in Shonen does, yet we don't give them any form of Prediction.

You certainly miss stuff dude. Dante says that he has been watching Gilver all the time they had missions together, that is what allowed him to know how to fight against Gilver in the last showdown. Analizyng his oponent is what allowed him to easily evade all his attacks during that moment and the same thing allowed him to keep up with Gilver.

That looks like a clear cut feat to me. With the vergil thing, I somewhat agree, he has only fought him once after almost 20 years (not counting Nelo cuz they have different fighting styles) and after that he knew how to fight him. It could be from memory or just that he analyzed Vergil fighting style there.

Enhanced Regeneration (Low-Godly; scales from Nelo Angelo, who can regen after complete destruction of his body, although since the time frame is not specified, this regen is non combat applicable)

Again this is complete out of the equation, NOBODY has ever accepted this and literally in the thread it was brought up in nobody agreed to it. Not to mention there's no evidence that Nelo's body was destroyed past a Atomic Level, so again this is just people adding in random powers and abilities, without them ever have gotten accepted.

Nobody is exactly who? us? because there was a lot of support for that in the thread IIRC.

Did you not read the guide saying there was nothing left of his body? Did you not play the game or at least watch the cutscene where there was litererally nothing left out of his ass? I think there are things from 4 that support this too but I'm lazy to go searching for it.

They say that the simplest solution is the better one and we are not about to go into an argument wether there were atoms left or not just because someone think it does.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I do think that Analytical Prediction has some precedent, especially for Vergil, but it would be very limited. If there are other MCs that do the same and don't have it on their profiles, that means they should have it, not that Dante shouldn't.

The Regen and Acausality points seem reasonable at first glance. Entirely neutral on the Beasthead stuff, as I'm unfamiliar with it.

 

[Shmooply]

I've changed my mind. I disagree with their law hax resistance being removed, as the law manipulation page states that characters with acausality type 4 can possibly be unaffected by it.

not that it matters now since tony is wilding and debunking you at the moment

 

[Arcker123]

If the Resistance to Matter Manipulation comes from the Beam stuff, DontTalk has already explained why this isn't a resistance,

Where?

 

[Shmooply]

Where?

I believe it comes from Earl's hax downgrade thread.

 

[Sevil Natas]

If the Resistance to Matter Manipulation comes from the Beam stuff, DontTalk has already explained why this isn't a resistance, and as for Fate Manipulation that's unsupported and has inconsistencies. The Cube was still able to Fate hax Dante a bunch of times, so again I see no resistance to Fate Manipulation.

you legit didnt read any of the justifications for these abilities, the fate manip doesnt come from the dice, it comes from the beastheads

Enhanced Regeneration (Low-Godly; scales from Nelo Angelo, who can regen after complete destruction of his body, although since the time frame is not specified, this regen is non combat applicable)


Again this is complete out of the equation, NOBODY has ever accepted this and literally in the thread it was brought up in nobody agreed to it. Not to mention there's no evidence that Nelo's body was destroyed past a Atomic Level, so again this is just people adding in random powers and abilities, without them ever have gotten accepted.

this is a flat out lie, pretty much everyone on misters thread accepted low-godly, and you're not even bringing up the other justifications for it

again with what tony stated,
the scans clearly states that vergil's body disappears, and the cutscene where it happens shows nothing left of him, enough said

the type 4 stuff already got debunked in previous threads no use bringing it up here again

 

[Mister6ame6]

The matter hax resistance comes from the fact that demons resist transmutation in the series, since resisting transmutation gives you resistance to matter hax on atomic level.

From the matter hax page on atomic level section:

The ability to manipulate individual atoms, ions, and isotopes. At this level, users can change the nature of atoms and their properties, allowing them to transmute one thing into another, destroy atoms to obliterate targets, and completely rearrange atomic structures to create virtually anything. The user may also be able to manipulate the radioactive decay within certain atoms and isotopes as well.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

"Being described as existing outside of/being an irregularity in Fate or Causality is normally likely to give it. There are some words and phrase that do frequently grant it as well, but that's only depending on the context of said phrase and needs to be looked at case by case; such as existing outside the flow of time"

Those are alternatives yes, that's not DMC's quote though.

 

[VinnyXD]

The matter hax resistance comes from the fact that demons resist transmutation in the series, since resisting transmutation gives you resistance to matter hax on atomic level.

From the matter hax page on atomic level section:

The ability to manipulate individual atoms, ions, and isotopes. At this level, users can change the nature of atoms and their properties, allowing them to transmute one thing into another, destroy atoms to obliterate targets, and completely rearrange atomic structures to create virtually anything. The user may also be able to manipulate the radioactive decay within certain atoms and isotopes as well.

This should just be resistance to transmutation. Not matter manipulation or both

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Those are alternatives yes, that's not DMC's quote though.

And DMC has enough, 3 staff members agreed with it in the last thread.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And DMC has enough, 3 staff members agreed with it in the last thread.

Since when are staff omniscient?

 

[Mister6ame6]

This should just be resistance to transmutation. Not matter manipulation or both

I don't see the problem, both can overlap and in DMC case it's fits both. Not everybody know that resisting transmutation gives you resistance to matter hax on atomic level.

 

[Mister6ame6]

And DMC has enough, 3 staff members agreed with it in the last thread.

Four staff are there from what i remember.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I don't see the problem, both can overlap and in DMC case it's fits both. Not everybody know that resisting transmutation gives you resistance to matter hax on atomic level.

Yes not everyone knows that, cus it doesn't.

 

[VinnyXD]

I don't see the problem, both can overlap and in DMC case it's fits both. Not everybody know that resisting transmutation gives you resistance to matter hax on atomic level.

Because having both is unnecessary when it's just transmuted you. It's like having the power to stop time. And giving the the character Time manipulation and Time stop yeah both are true but it's only be used in one way. So you only give them time stop

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Since when are staff omniscient?

And when did I say they are omniscient? The fact that almost everyone there including 3 staff members agreed with it should tell you enough, it's not about being all knowing bro, it's about having evidence that fulfills the requirements and in this case we do.

 

[LordGinSama]

Already got debunked, thank you. Not only that but your "proof" is a bleach thread where the OP got salty and deleted everything, so I can't properly say what was denied. The comments mostly go about the concept of life and death and that is far from what we have here as proof and it is everything together that works for the acausality.

Actually hasn't been debunked, so your welcome. Don't come into this thread acting smug, for starters so let's not go there buddy. Secondly, the proof i gave was in the thread, the OP is irrelevant due to the information being discussed on the thread, and no it absolutely wasn't only tied to the Concepts of Life and Death, the verses entite system was changed but it was denied due to Causality never being stated to change.

You would look better bringing something exactly like DMC and having it being rejected instead of your childish tamtrum over there.

Oh look more personal attacks, because that isn't unheard of from you or DMC fans whenever they don't have real arguments. You can obviously read the thread and see the counter arguments that were given.

"Being described as existing outside of/being an irregularity in Fate or Causality is normally likely to give it. There are some words and phrase that do frequently grant it as well, but that's only depending on the context of said phrase and needs to be looked at case by case; such as existing outside the flow of time"

And this Quote proves absolutely nothing, there are absolutely zero statements regarding Causality having had changed, if you have this scan post it. I'm not gonna have you come into my thread, acting incredibly smug and self righteous while also literally applying things that don't apply to DMC.

Even in the QnA thread you linked, its not necessary to get beyond causality stuff when there are other alternatives. Even a staff member who has not the best opinion of the verse agreed that it is legit in the thread Setsuna made.

Now this part is just flat out dishonest, let's not try to make any of the staff members seem to have a nonexistent bias against DMC, DarkDragon made a singular comment on the thread and that's it. People are subject to change their opinions, so nice try. And no, in the thread it's never stated that there are "Alternatives." it's either they have a statement of a different Causality system or they don't have the ability, simple as that.

That's part of the Beastheads assimilation process tho, thing that every demon is immune to.

If that's the case then it should be fine, but I'd also like to see the evidence of this being a resistance as opposed to being a caveat.

And the verse is better off without you considering you don't even know this.

Literally all I see coming from you is throwing insults left and right without real arguments, and trust me as I said earlier you don't wanna go this route with me.

1) this is part of the beastheads powers, not the dice.

Citation would be nice, but the Beasthead is irrelevant as it's the Die doing the work, the die needs to activate first before it can manipulate them.

2) Dante was never haxed by it, he destroyed the dice lol, it was Nero the one that got forced to play.

Doesn't disqualify the notion of my argument, Dante destroyed the Dice before it could activate and Nero being manipulated is still an anti feat. If Demons were Type 4 then he wouldn't have been manipulated.

3) Exactly how is this inconsistent with what we have seen and know of the verse?

Whenever you have Demons who get manipulated by Fate, such as Nero we run into inconsistencies, and Dante never resisted, he cut the Dice before they could even activate, so again this isn't a resistance.

Did you miss the part where Demons don't follow the laws of the (human) world? You even quoted that. Not following the laws of the world = not being affected by them.

That is called resistance here dud.

Oh wow, look even more blatant dishonesty. There isn't any resistance here, they work on a different system due to being born in a universe that works differently than the Human World's, the Human World's Laws can't effect them due to the mechanic's, they follow the Laws of the Demon World.

You certainly miss stuff dude. Dante says that he has been watching Gilver all the time they had missions together, that is what allowed him to know how to fight against Gilver in the last showdown. Analizyng his oponent is what allowed him to easily evade all his attacks during that moment and the same thing allowed him to keep up with Gilver.

And there we go, going by your own words Dante already knows what Gilver can do as the two have gone on missions together, hence why he knows what he can do. There is no "Analizyng Gilver." whenever Dante already knows his ins and outs.

That looks like a clear cut feat to me. With the vergil thing, I somewhat agree, he has only fought him once after almost 20 years (not counting Nelo cuz they have different fighting styles) and after that he knew how to fight him. It could be from memory or just that he analyzed Vergil fighting style there.

I'd say it's more along the lines of memory, the both of them clashed blades after all and Vergil's fighting stlye hasn't changed from his Dark-Slayer Style.

Nobody is exactly who? us? because there was a lot of support for that in the thread IIRC.

Nobody being staff members, you guys rushed the CRT to get accepted. This is evident here where they barely even touch the Low Godly Subject, no staff agreed to it's addition.

Did you not read the guide saying there was nothing left of his body? Did you not play the game or at least watch the cutscene where there was litererally nothing left out of his ass? I think there are things from 4 that support this too but I'm lazy to go searching for it.

I did, and the translations aren't even verified so I have no reason to believe it's legitimate. And the game play is irrelevant, he just disappears into air, atomic particles can still exist in such as state.

They say that the simplest solution is the better one and we are not about to go into an argument wether there were atoms left or not just because someone think it does.

Burden of Proof literally falls on you to prove that he was destroyed beyond atoms, so yes this is an argument we're gonna get into. We aren't gonna ignore arguments simply because it's convenient to you, either proof that Nelo was reduced beyond atoms or miss me.

you legit didnt read any of the justifications for these abilities, the fate manip doesnt come from the dice, it comes from the beastheads

Addressed this above.

This is a flat out lie, pretty much everyone on misters thread accepted low-godly, and you're not even bringing up the other justifications for it

no they actually haven't, I followed that thread in particular and we never had a a full discussion regarding the regeneration. The only thing that's a lie here is your comment in it's entirety.

again with what tony stated,
the scans clearly states that vergil's body disappears, and the cutscene where it happens shows nothing left of him, enough said

Via a shaky translation that wasn't even given the "ok" from translators here, and the game play of him blowing up isn't evidence of low Godly as atoms still exist.

the type 4 stuff already got debunked in previous threads no use bringing it up here again

No, actually it hasn't, the arguments given in the other thread were poor at best. The staff skimmed through it, let's not be anymore dishonest here.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Actually hasn't been debunked, so your welcome. Don't come into this thread acting smug, for starters so let's not go there buddy. Secondly, the proof i gave was in the thread, the OP is irrelevant due to the information being discussed on the thread, and no it absolutely wasn't only tied to the Concepts of Life and Death, the verses entite system was changed but it was denied due to Causality never being stated to change.

It was, what you think of it is irrelevant. I came here to find someone saying that the profiles are garbage complete with a thread full of gross misunderstandings with little to no knowledge of the verse, I don't know what reaction you expected.

I don't know exactly what proof was being discussed because it was deleted, the comments doesn't tell me what the OP was about in full detail and its irrelevant to the contents of this verse when we use completely different justifications from whatever was there.

And this Quote proves absolutely nothing, there are absolutely zero statements regarding Causality having had changed, if you have this scan post it. I'm not gonna have you come into my thread, acting incredibly smug and self righteous while also literally applying things that don't apply to DMC.

It actually tells you a lot, for example you don't specifically need quotes about causality if you have something similar, enough evidence and context for them to work reasonably.

If you don't want me here that's your problem.

Now this part is just flat out dishonest, let's not try to make any of the staff members seem to have a nonexistent bias against DMC, DarkDragon made a singular comment on the thread and that's it. People are subject to change their opinions, so nice try.

DDM has already made clear his non favorable opinion of the verse on several ocassion, I'm not being dishonest here. It's to prove how solid the evidence seems to people that don't want anything to do with the verse. And yes, he made a single comment regarding Acausality type 4 and it was his agreement to our scans and reasoning for it, a thread that is not even 1 month old.

As things are he is in agreement along with another 2 staff members, you can obviously call him so he can say his opionion again. Wheter he changes his mind or not is irrelevant to me right now.

And no, in the thread it's never stated that there are "Alternatives." it's either they have a statement of a different Causality system or they don't have the ability, simple as that.

The quote I posted above is from another staff member, you might need to check it again and not only that but like I said, 3 staff members agreed to it in the thread setsuna made.

If that's the case then it should be fine, but I'd also like to see the evidence of this being a resistance as opposed to being a caveat.

It's in the thread where you insulted the supporters of the verse and left.

and trust me as I said earlier you don't wanna go this route with me.

And what exactly are you gonna do? throw another tantrum and report me? This is the internet, don't try to sound intimidating here

Citation would be nice, but the Beasthead is irrelevant as it's the Die doing the work, the die needs to activate first before it can manipulate them.

In the profile and in the physiology page, the beastheads have fate manip so it isn't the dice. It activated and Dante still destroyed it.

Doesn't disqualify the notion of my argument, Dante destroyed the Dice before it could activate and Nero being manipulated is still an anti feat. If Demons were Type 4 then he wouldn't have been manipulated.

1) It was already activated, you would do well to watch the cutscene for both Nero and Dante. 2) The dice works with demonic power, meaning it works under the same rules as them and it affecting nero is just proof that it goes beyond the basic resistance (thing that once again, Dante destroys)

Whenever you have Demons who get manipulated by Fate, such as Nero we run into inconsistencies, and Dante never resisted, he cut the Dice before they could even activate, so again this isn't a resistance.

I said it above, its hax that can affect them, that doens't suddenly disprove the type 4. Already debunked the Dante thing, heck he even no sells the beasthead thing.

Oh wow, look even more blatant dishonesty. There isn't any resistance here, they work on a different system due to being born in a universe that works differently than the Human World's, the Human World's Laws can't effect them due to the mechanic's, they follow the Laws of the Demon World.

Well yes, that is the definition of a resistance, not being affected by something that affects others. It can't be called dishonesty when it is a fact we use here.

And there we go, going by your own words Dante already knows what Gilver can do as the two have gone on missions together, hence why he knows what he can do. There is no "Analizyng Gilver." whenever Dante already knows his ins and outs.

That's the thing, he predicted his movements there by analyzing him on another time, if that isn't the definition of "analitical prediction" then I don't know what is, granted it is slower than others but still counts.

I'd say it's more along the lines of memory, the both of them clashed blades after all and Vergil's fighting stlye hasn't changed from his Dark-Slayer Style.

It has changed over the years cuz Urizen and Nelo but indiferent there.

Nobody being staff members, you guys rushed the CRT to get accepted. This is evident here where they barely even touch the Low Godly Subject, no staff agreed to it's addition.

From memory Grath and Glass and Nedge where there and I'm pretty sure there was more. The thread took almost 3 months, it can't even be described as rushed.

I did, and the translations aren't even verified so I have no reason to believe it's legitimate. And the game play is irrelevant, he just disappears into air, atomic particles can still exist in such as state.

We had the help from RedGrave there, but if you think none of us are reliable then you are free to ask for another member to check them. It isn't gamplay, its a full fledged cutscene and not only that but the context of the guide helps a lot, so yeah.

Burden of Proof literally falls on you to prove that he was destroyed beyond atoms, so yes this is an argument we're gonna get into. We aren't gonna ignore arguments simply because it's convenient to you, either proof that Nelo was reduced beyond atoms or miss me.

It's not only the most convenient thing but the simplest solution, which occam razor says is the most likely to be true.

The guide already said his body dissapear without a trace which is what we see happen. DMC 5 tells you that angelos are armors made by Maquiavelli and DMC4 tells you that Nelo Angelo houses Vergil's soul, not only that but Visions of V supports this even more with Mundus saying he will take away Vergil's humanity to make him a perfect weapon.

With all of that I could easily say his body wasn't even there but just another armor that was powered by his soul and he had to remake it after Dante defeated Mundus.

 

[LordGinSama]

Will reply to the comment above some time tomorrow.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Enhanced Regeneration (Low-Godly; scales from Nelo Angelo, who can regen after complete destruction of his body, although since the time frame is not specified, this regen is non combat applicable)


Again this is complete out of the equation, NOBODY has ever accepted this and literally in the thread it was brought up in nobody agreed to it. Not to mention there's no evidence that Nelo's body was destroyed past a Atomic Level, so again this is just people adding in random powers and abilities, without them ever have gotten accepted.

"全 身 か ら闇 気 を 噴 き 出 し 、 漆 黒 の 騎士 は 最 期 の 時 を 迎 え る 。 や が て声 き 命 の 輝 き は 完 全 に 燃 え 尽 き そ の 体 は跡 形 も な く 消 え 去 つ た 。"
"With darkness spewing from his body, the jet-black knight was approaching his final hour. The glow of life in his voice finally burned out completely, and his body disappeared without a trace."


Yeah....so you were saying???

"disappeared without a trace"....thats my proof.....If you want suggest that atoms or what not remained...then yeah...provide proof.

Its without taking into account that it might be only Vergil's soul inside the vessal....not body...there are statement that say he is only soul in armour or something along those lines....
And iirc...there aren't any statements of his body being in it....
So given all of this....I would find it hilarious if you still disagree...

Nobody being staff members, you guys rushed the CRT to get accepted. This is evident here where they barely even touch the Low Godly Subject, no staff agreed to it's addition.

3 months of time is rushed apparently.....

At the end of thread's life , staff was notified and they took a week to analyze and give thier input....even said that they were neutral...and would defer to judgement of Glass who is another staff member....and this besides the other's like Schnee etc...

Besides its OP's job to propose a hax/ability and give proof for it, which we did, its the commentators who have to voice the disagreements if they have any....
If not then the proposal remains uncontested.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I did, and the translations aren't even verified so I have no reason to believe it's legitimate. And the game play is irrelevant, he just disappears into air, atomic particles can still exist in such as state.

The translations were done by Redgrave who is staff and translates stuff for others too....even then if you have no reasons to beleive them legitimate then you neither have reasons to believe they are illegitimate....unless you are expert in Japanese and can provide better translations...be my guest.

 

[Arcker123]

Line me up for neutral Rn....

 

[LordGinSama]

Will reply to the comment above some time tomorrow.

^

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Read each and every quote in that video.
This video gives crystal clear evidence that its the entire room which binds you, your soul is registered the moment you step there...and the only way to proceed is playing the game to its completion. Either die or win are the only two options to escape it. That or you are stuck there permanantly with thumb up your ass.
It isn't the dice that binds you but the room as a whole.

Nero is forced to play this two times in entire game, M06 and M19.

And technically its not Nero but all the demons in it are bound to it too...each slot on the board creates a dimensions for Nero to fight in and it recreates the entire battles from the past. Dead Bosses like Berial, Echidna etc are braught back to life just to impede Nero's progress, even they are affected. Entire atmosphere is recreated , from the time of the day to the specific locations intact as they were in the past.




Anyone who has experience playing dice based board games( almost everyone has played of course, if you haven't well shoo shoo then go play one) you know how the deal is....

Lets take Snake and Ladders as example....
The only way to make positive progress forwards is to toss the dice and move accordingly, whether that brings you misfortune or fortune comes later...
If you refuse to play the dice then your familiar on the board remains stagnant on the slot. The dice is just an instrument of progression....
If you have ever had a salty bratty little sibling whom you may have played the game with(speaking from experience here), and they throw or destroy or hide the dice then the game cannot continue, you are at an impasse....your avatar is stuck there....then you have to spend hrs convincing your sibling to give back the dice, or get a new one or go search for it yourself.....and only then you can continue playing.

But imagine having a player who registers his avatar on the board but gets rid of the dice and proceeds to win the game by just moving the avatar to its win position and get off scot free without consequences.

You know who does that in DMC4...yeah thats pretty blatant fate manip resistance.

 

[AKM sama]

The translations were done by Redgrave who is staff and translates stuff for others too....even then if you have no reasons to beleive them legitimate then you neither have reasons to believe they are illegitimate....unless you are expert in Japanese and can provide better translations...be my guest.

Isn't there any official translation for this?

I am in agreement with Gin regarding Acausality. Different flow of time, law of gravity or physics isn't enough on its own for that and I don't see any direct evidence for a different system of causality altogether.

Regarding Resistance to Law Manipulation, that really does not seem like flat out resistance from the explanation provided for it, it's simply them following a different set of laws and not the normal one, if someone explicitly tries to apply law manipulation on them, there is nothing telling us that they will resist it. It's like giving Ryuk resistance to law manipulation because he hails from a world where normal laws don't apply and he doesn't follow human laws either.

I agree with removal of Analytical Prediction based on that too. It's more closely related to precog, where you can quickly analyze an opponent you have never even faced before and predict their movements, while having zero knowledge about them from your past encounters. For example, Goku got it for predicting Hit's movements ahead of time, someone who he never fought against before and who was using his time hax, not because he could predict whatever Krillin can do in his battle because he has been with Krillin for years. The latter is just called being familiar with someone who you regularly watch. Not analytical prediction.

As for the regen, I think the statement would hold true even if it was High, instead of Low-Godly. No trace being left does not account for molecules and atoms in normal language. If there is no explicit proof, then we should go with High.

I am undecided about the other things, can't give an opinion on them yet. Also, I'd appreciate if we drop the hostile tone from both sides.

 

[Slacjow]

I don't see the problem, both can overlap and in DMC case it's fits both. Not everybody know that resisting transmutation gives you resistance to matter hax on atomic level.

Em, no, you don't give characters resistance to Matter hax for Resisting Transmutation, unless that transmutation was stated to work on Atomic Level.

There's a "Transmuation" page for a reason.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Isn't there any official translation for this?

Do not recall anything like that, personally.

Regarding Resistance to Law Manipulation, that really does not seem like flat out resistance from the explanation provided for it, it's simply them following a different set of laws and not the normal one, if someone explicitly tries to apply law manipulation on them, there is nothing telling us that they will resist it. It's like giving Ryuk resistance to law manipulation because he hails from a world where normal laws don't apply and he doesn't follow human laws either.

Don't know all the details in regards to Ryuk, so I can't say anything. I'd say the evidence we have at hand is sufficient, but eh, what do I know.

I agree with removal of Analytical Prediction based on that too. It's more closely related to precog, where you can quickly analyze an opponent you have never even faced before and predict their movements, while having zero knowledge about them from your past encounters. For example, Goku got it for predicting Hit's movements ahead of time, someone who he never fought against before and who was using his time hax, not because he could predict whatever Krillin can do in his battle because he has been with Krillin for years. The latter is just called being familiar with someone who you regularly watch. Not analytical prediction.

Seems fair to me.

 

[Thehunter077]

I thought Acasuality type 4 has been debunked before, why bringin that again?

 

[Cloozuma]

Neutral on the removal on Acausality. I think having different laws would qualify depending on context is, but there's no stating of Causality so eh.

Agree with removal of Matter Manip for now, neutral for removal of Fate Manip.

Agree for removal of Law Manip, Different Laws ≠ Not immune to laws unless stated so.

For analytical prediction, I think we can change that to precog.

As for the regen, I think the statement would hold true even if it was High, instead of Low-Godly. No trace being left does not account for molecules and atoms in normal language. If there is no explicit proof, then we should go with High.

Is it better than we can say for the Regen High, Possibly Low-Godly? Disappeared without a trace seems vague for me imo.

I'm not really knowledgable at some abilities so this is what I can say.

 

[AKM sama]

Disappeared without a trace seems vague for me imo.

It's vague and open to interpretation if we consider both types of regen, but without direct evidence, we will go with the safer and lower end. That's how things are done. You need direct evidence to get the higher regen.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems to make sense to me.

@Theglassman12 @DarkGrath @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think?