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The example mentioned says "outside the flow of time" dude.
Thanks AKM, wish you'd had been there for the other threads where it was accepted. And the one that was closed by Glass.
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DMC - Serious hax downgrade.
- Thread starter LordGinSama
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Icic, in any case I'll stick with High, if there's more evidence that could support Low-Godly I think possibly would be a safe choice.
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The regen is honestly whatever at this point, because we don't know the timeframe and it wouldn't be combat applicable in any way. Lower end for regen seems fine to be, will remain neutral on the rest for now.
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you guys legit just glossed over all the other evidence for low-godly
also the fact remains, there is no high regen in DMC while there are other low-godly feats (3 to be exact) there's no reason to assume it is high because the statements make it clear that his body disappeared. to say that the author doesnt consider molecules & atoms is improbable to say the least, it is far reasonable to assume low-godly because there are other low-godly feats done by inferior demons to nelo angelo and to further support this, vergil in DMC 5 can make objects directly from his soul which suggests vergil can use his demon power & demonic abilities from just his soul
also the fact remains, there is no high regen in DMC while there are other low-godly feats (3 to be exact) there's no reason to assume it is high because the statements make it clear that his body disappeared. to say that the author doesnt consider molecules & atoms is improbable to say the least, it is far reasonable to assume low-godly because there are other low-godly feats done by inferior demons to nelo angelo and to further support this, vergil in DMC 5 can make objects directly from his soul which suggests vergil can use his demon power & demonic abilities from just his soul
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Not even gonna bother with this since we've already discussed this in other threads.
You mean the same one where you said rude stuff about Glass and made fun of people who disagreed with the removal of acausality? I'm sure AKM would like to hear about this.
I can't be bothered to address all the other arguments here as I got out of bed a while ago, but Tony and Gilver seem to be doing well here anyways.
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Can you show the feats?
Since AKM already said that they aren't enough i won't bother either.
Nope, not that thread. I mean this thread that Glass closed. The thread where glass was defending stuff against the standards of the site and closed the thread prematurely because he didn't like the arguments even though Wokistan an HR member said "the arguments Earl is making can be made". The topic kind of died out since Wok is busy lately.
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honestly it isnt a different flow of time, it's more of an inconsistent flow of time going by the scans provided,in some places it moves slower, in some places it moves faster
and entirely different laws of physics will lead to a different casusality system. since thats what casuality is bound by anyway (as far as i know)
and that seems to the case with the demon world, time is different, gravity is different, the laws seem to change depending on the place you're in
also demons have shown resistance to fate manipulation which goes for supporting type 4
griffon, shadow, nightmare & phantom also mundus has low-godly feats
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That's Analytical Prediction
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Causality isn't bound by them.
If you mean beastheads, it's not resistance. The beastheads aren't made to affect demons in the first place.
They are very specific demons.
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Ah yes about Regen, for now I agree about Low-Godly for twins but it can be higher than Mid based on Vergil could comeback from that.
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it is, actually making C infinite is enough to **** with casuality
here's proof
no they're not, one is a bird, one is a blob shape shifter, the other is a lava creature and nightmare is a bio weapon created by mundus, and if it is because they're "mundus generals" shadow wasnt even stated to be that, even vergil (the one who did the feat) was considered mundus' servant these points are redundant
this is a laughable argument, it is like saying a blender was made to affect only food, so putting your hand in it & turning on wouldnt affect you
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Not this one again...
I'll just be lazy and copy-paste what somebody else told you in your DMC downgrade thread.
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Making anything infinite would mess with causality cus infinite speed is weird. But that is a real life issue that we do not take into account, not to mention that is a very specific thing.
Cus not all demons have a core like that. Not all demons turn into a core when whacked. They are specific demons that have a core that they can be healed from.
If someone says "it heals some animals but kills humans" then that is not resistance for the animals that is a specific mechanic of the ability being used.
I'll just be lazy and get to the point:
1. That is about demon world stuff
2. False equivalency on the venus example.
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I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.
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Acausal stuff: We had this already it was clear cut with how different the world is and it operates differently from the natural world we live in.
"Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others."
Which seems to fit the bill for the demon world since it does it under different laws. Also doesn't causality fall under one of the laws that govern reality?
とある歴史学者の言を借りれば、この世界の成り立ちは非常に脆弱なものであり、己の法則性に従わない存在を受け入れることはできないのだという。
This literally said how it doesn't conform to the laws thus making it very different from the normal laws we have and again doesn't causality count under laws that govern reality due to its system being part of what makes our reality?
Btw the dice game does force ppl to play it last i checked which should bind them to it but Dante broke it instead thus was unable to be binded to the game so there is that...
The regen is because of how Nelo Angelo literally exploded without any trace but his amulet unless someone is telling me that won't count cuz the amulet remained. His soul was in the armor and that well bites the dust. So he only had a soul left anyway unless someone is also gonna nitpick atoms.
"Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others."
Which seems to fit the bill for the demon world since it does it under different laws. Also doesn't causality fall under one of the laws that govern reality?
とある歴史学者の言を借りれば、この世界の成り立ちは非常に脆弱なものであり、己の法則性に従わない存在を受け入れることはできないのだという。
This literally said how it doesn't conform to the laws thus making it very different from the normal laws we have and again doesn't causality count under laws that govern reality due to its system being part of what makes our reality?
Btw the dice game does force ppl to play it last i checked which should bind them to it but Dante broke it instead thus was unable to be binded to the game so there is that...
The regen is because of how Nelo Angelo literally exploded without any trace but his amulet unless someone is telling me that won't count cuz the amulet remained. His soul was in the armor and that well bites the dust. So he only had a soul left anyway unless someone is also gonna nitpick atoms.
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the scans above suggest otherwise also all demons have cores, thats how they turn into devil arms & you have glossed over my main arguments above, again
good cus the demon world is even wierder, and it doesnt matter if it is a "real life issue" or not, different laws of physics will break regular casuality
the different flow of time thing is enough to break casuality
the ordering of events in the universe depends on a consistent forward moving time, which clearly isnt the case in the underworld, where time moves incoherently,
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A world with different sets of laws isn't automatically a different system of cause and effect. It depends. What are these different sets of laws, apart from an inconsistent flow of time and different law of gravity?
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Our universe might have had a slightly or vastly different law of gravity, or various differences in physical constants, and this would be compatible with real world cause and effect.
Different flows of time can mean everything moves faster or moves slower (in fact, the scan provided is that in some places flowers don't die and in others places they wither quickly); sure these are different laws that vary with area but this does not imply acausality, and the standard relation between cause and effect is still valid.
Different flows of time can mean everything moves faster or moves slower (in fact, the scan provided is that in some places flowers don't die and in others places they wither quickly); sure these are different laws that vary with area but this does not imply acausality, and the standard relation between cause and effect is still valid.
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Not every physic law will break causality. You'd have to prove that the ones that are different are causality breaking things.
And the order of events in the universe works regardless of how fast or slow time moves. Whether time is moving slower or faster the fact that you felt pain after i punched you remains the same.
What scans?
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The scan that Vergil can make swords? How is that an argument for Low Godly regen?
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yes, just skip the main argument & go straight for the support feats that arent intended to have any merit alone
and it is an argument because vergil makes these swords straight from his soul, which suggests that vergil could use his demon abilities just from his soul aswell
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How does other characters performing a regen feat an argument for the character in question to also perform regen on the same level? Characters are different and their level of regen can be different as well.
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This shows how demons survive the assimilation process but humans don't.....clearly stated....
And the transformation requires "taking away the mass" even the process bewilders the scientist.......it is clear that the mass/matter of the victim is gradually piecemeal turned into stone statue thats only an inch long....
The human goes from large organic object to small inch tall stone statue.....its not a gorgon beam or magic spell that goes " swoosh and turns you to stone just cuz....
Its clearly shown that the Beastheads manipulate mass gradually to turn you to stone....
So matter manip stays......
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Its a established fact that demons get better regen as stronger they get....more blood and demonic energy you have the better physiology it gives you...
And there is evidence that all higher demons/devils have this soul based regen...there is a demon which willigly turns from his normal body to soul to become Devil Arm....and says that he will turn back to normal to challenge Dante someday again...
And even Berail turns to soul on occasion to escape from Nero but returns in full body a few hrs later and ends up fighting Dante....and again turns into Soul to do a suicide attack instead of becoming Devil Arm.
I'll provide proof after some time.
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because they have the same physiology which is where their regen comes from and there are scans suggesting that regen is bound by & enchanced via demon power in this case nelo angelo is far superior to shadow and the other ppl who could regen on that level, is it really that far of a stretch to say that we can reasonably take the statements regarding nelo's destruction as low-godly?
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"His volume and weight are decreasing rapidly" isn't enough for matter manipulation.
This shows how demons survive the assimilation process but humans don't.....clearly stated....
And the transformation requires "taking away the mass" even the process bewilders the scientist.......it is clear that the mass/matter of the victim is gradually piecemeal turned into stone statue thats only an inch long....
The human goes from large organic object to small inch tall stone statue.....its not a gorgon beam or magic spell that goes " swoosh and turns you to stone just cuz....
Its clearly shown that the Beastheads manipulate mass gradually to turn you to stone....
So matter manip stays......
Remove the word "matter" because it wasn't mentioned, you added it yourself.
This is still transmutation, no mention of molecules or atoms out there, no proof of matter manipulation.
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Didn't quote where he next says "we have no idea where lost mass is going.."
And pray tell what mass is ?? Pls don't be so dismissive my dude....I may be rusty in my physics for not having touched it in many years but even I know that mass is a property of matter....Both are different definition wise but they are often used interchangeably.
And if that scientist says that the mass is is being lost it means same as matter being lost.....
You want to say that the sentence is vague and doesn't tell if atoms or molecules are involved then fine I agree there.....we can discuss that later and come to consensus on it , saying that it doesn't involve matter manip is plain wrong.
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Losing mass isn't really a result of matter manip.
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@AKM sama Just to ask here, can you explain why the stuff does not count for type 4 beyond just “no mention of causality”? Because plenty of other characters have gotten type 4 Acausality and a good chunk of them have no mention of causality altogether, just that they function in different rules or flows of time than other normal beings.
also in DMC 4 there’s flat out statements in the recap of the lore that Vergil’s soul is in Nelo Angelo’s body, the fact that nothing of Nelo Angelo remained and the only thing left for Vergil was his literal soul, should be enough evidence to suggest its low godly and not high regen.
@Firephoenixearl I didn’t close the thread because I didn’t like the arguments, I closed the thread because you refused to follow through with your argument by making a thread to change video game standards as a whole and refused to drop the topic when you kept making the same baseless claims, which seems to be common coming from you. To take the one report and make me look bad by ignoring context altogether, the more you keep lying about this I will report you again for trying to poison the well.
also in DMC 4 there’s flat out statements in the recap of the lore that Vergil’s soul is in Nelo Angelo’s body, the fact that nothing of Nelo Angelo remained and the only thing left for Vergil was his literal soul, should be enough evidence to suggest its low godly and not high regen.
@Firephoenixearl I didn’t close the thread because I didn’t like the arguments, I closed the thread because you refused to follow through with your argument by making a thread to change video game standards as a whole and refused to drop the topic when you kept making the same baseless claims, which seems to be common coming from you. To take the one report and make me look bad by ignoring context altogether, the more you keep lying about this I will report you again for trying to poison the well.
Vietthai96
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So according to you losing mass is the result of what ability
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Mention cases please. You cannot say that without mentioning examples of who did this. For all we know the ppl who did this may be wrong too.
Didn't Wok say "there is no standard and Earl's argument can be made" though?
Everything that removes volume. He could just be evaporating for all we know. Cus he is not losing mass as a result of losing density (which would be more aching to matter manip), he's losing mass as a result of losing volume, meaning his body is shrinking in some way, that part of his body could go anywhere, regardless of where it goes it fails to be matter manip.
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Honestly Type 4 Acausality might needs its own thread in the future, because I honestly have trouble understanding what qualifies. However, I do agree with AKM Sama that a simple "Different laws of causality and physics" alone aren't enough. But most characters I know of have Type 4 via "Existing outside the concept of time and space" or "Existing outside the laws of Causality". But either way, Acausality type 4 and 5; especially 5, aren't fairly easy to understand and Sera thinks Acausality in general is difficult to understand from what I heard.
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Different laws of causality qualifies though.
That too qualifies.
Although a thread on acausality is probably needed, mainly on their limitations. For example does affecting a type 4 allow you to affect a type 2?
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Dragon ball heroes demons being type 4 just because they exist outside of history/the flow of time and operate on magic than physics. No mention of causality whatsoever but that’s accepted as type 4, so clearly that’s not the case for getting type 4.
Wok also didn’t get the full context behind why I closed it (because you didn’t tell him the full story), Kira explained the entire thing to him and he closed it right afterwards.
Wok also didn’t get the full context behind why I closed it (because you didn’t tell him the full story), Kira explained the entire thing to him and he closed it right afterwards.
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They exists outside of the flow of time though. That qualifies.
In the last comment, wok said:
It's not an argument that's not allowed to be made though.
And the way you worded that is aweful, he didn't close it cus he realized y'all were right and it had to be closed, he closed it cus he didn't want the discussion to continue until he had read the entire thing and decided which side was the correct one:
I'll get back to which way it ends up after reading through this.
So if you're not gonna word things correctly don't word them at all. Don't act like wok said you were correct. Wok has just been busy irl so he hasn't checked the thread.
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That does not debunk my point that causality being mentioned is not a requirement for type 4.
Says the guy who didn’t give the entire context on why I closed the thread. How about practice what you preach before you try and claim that other people need to word what they say better? Also it’s been a long time since Wok even said that, either he’s already read the thread and he agrees with me closing the thread or he doesn’t really care much in the end.
Says the guy who didn’t give the entire context on why I closed the thread. How about practice what you preach before you try and claim that other people need to word what they say better? Also it’s been a long time since Wok even said that, either he’s already read the thread and he agrees with me closing the thread or he doesn’t really care much in the end.
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I've talked to Wok and he said he's been busy. I can understand if he just stopped caring, but agreeing with you is not the case as he would have just gave an answer. Based on what wok last said you're in the wrong, so keep that place until a better judgement is given. And stop derailing with this topic.
Cus outside the flow of time is sth that qualifies. You don't need necessarily different causality as there are other things that qualify. But "different laws" need to have a statement of "including laws of cause and effect". There's nothing to debunk.
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You’re the one who brought it up for no reason so don’t blame that on me.
Earl you’re just proving my point even more. Nothing about this is helping your case when you just proved my point on my question for AKM.
Earl you’re just proving my point even more. Nothing about this is helping your case when you just proved my point on my question for AKM.
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DBH humans exist outside the flow of time all together and aren't apart of the verses history, I.E Causality.
Comparing the two is like Comparing oranges to carrots.
Comparing the two is like Comparing oranges to carrots.
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