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Discord vs Joker (Ren Amamiya)
- Thread starter Angeltripper
- Start date
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I looked around, and it's actually not on a lot of profile, but it's on Ren's. People must have forgot tbh.
Abstract Existence (Type 1. A Persona's true form is the abstract portions of their user's psyche, and their physical forms are mere projections of it)
Abstract Existence (Type 1. A Persona's true form is the abstract portions of their user's psyche, and their physical forms are mere projections of it)
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- Thread starter
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Welp, I'm lost with the votes. If he isn't bloodlusted anymore then they should all be removed, I assume?
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Yeah, his charisma gets nulled too. There is absolutely no way charisma isn't logic based. It clearly follows it.Multipize said:
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And before you even say it: Physics /=/ logic. Don't even bring it up. That's a false comparison.
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Basically, he can null powers by nulling the logic they run on. With the logic they operate on failing, the power fails (This canonically happened in a chapter book).
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Yep. Apparently Logic Manip = Mind/Speech(?) Manip too. Oh well. I find it a little silly, but I'm nowhere even close to being a knowledgeable of this verse, so I don't really have the right question things much.YungManzi said:
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Since when does type 1 make you immune to power nulling?
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Excuse me what? Since when?Smashkabab said:
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Being a type 1 abstract makes you immune to practically everything that isn't high level conceptual manipulation, unless the character you're going against can affect type 1 abstracts.
Edit: We also assume their mind and other things are abstract as well, so non of that works either.
Edit: We also assume their mind and other things are abstract as well, so non of that works either.
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Yep. Apparently Logic Manip = Mind/Speech(?) Manip too. Oh well. I find it a little silly, but I'm nowhere even close to being a knowledgeable of this verse, so I don't really have the right question things much.
Excuse me what? Since when?
Referring to the fact that the only way I can see this Logic Manip vs. Charisma thing working out is if Discord somehow shuts Joker up, which is either mind control, body control, or speech control(?). Maybe it's because a logical being is trying to understand something illogical, but it just doesn't work out in my head.
Excuse me what? Since when?
Referring to the fact that the only way I can see this Logic Manip vs. Charisma thing working out is if Discord somehow shuts Joker up, which is either mind control, body control, or speech control(?). Maybe it's because a logical being is trying to understand something illogical, but it just doesn't work out in my head.
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Assuming Joker keeps charisma, voting Joker. Otherwise, Discord still thinks him to death, just slower than before.
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Uh, seriously, can Discord not affect type 1 abstracts?
Discord not being able to affect type 1's means he couldn't do anything to a persona.
And he just loses at that point tbh, maybe even a stomp.
That would work out nicely, except that for Discord to lose, that's gonna probably mean Death Hax before Discord decides to use Gravity Manip to crush Joker, rip Joker apart, or turn him into a messy pulp by creating a gravity well in Joker's body.
And for Death Hax to be used that quickly, that means Sleuthing Mastery, which might or might not go off at the beginning of the fight, depending on how quickly Discord applies Logic Manip, therefore negating Sleuthing Mastery entirely. Discord may forgo Logic Manipulation due to his overconfidence until Joker becomes more visibly threatening, but I don't know. We'll see.
I'm rooting for Joker right now, but it's too soon to tell at the moment.
Discord not being able to affect type 1's means he couldn't do anything to a persona.
And he just loses at that point tbh, maybe even a stomp.
That would work out nicely, except that for Discord to lose, that's gonna probably mean Death Hax before Discord decides to use Gravity Manip to crush Joker, rip Joker apart, or turn him into a messy pulp by creating a gravity well in Joker's body.
And for Death Hax to be used that quickly, that means Sleuthing Mastery, which might or might not go off at the beginning of the fight, depending on how quickly Discord applies Logic Manip, therefore negating Sleuthing Mastery entirely. Discord may forgo Logic Manipulation due to his overconfidence until Joker becomes more visibly threatening, but I don't know. We'll see.
I'm rooting for Joker right now, but it's too soon to tell at the moment.
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Uh. Ren is an RPG character, so outside of cutscenes and animations, we would allow him to start with whatever move he has access to (Because his starting move wholy depends on whoever is playing as him).
That's how we treat Pokemon and other rpgs, anyway.
He would also know what would and wouldn't work on Discord...so that could influence what he would use first.
And does have resistance to spatial manipulation and reality warping, so that could cancel out any gravity spawning shenanigans you mentioned, depending on how they work.
That's how we treat Pokemon and other rpgs, anyway.
He would also know what would and wouldn't work on Discord...so that could influence what he would use first.
And does have resistance to spatial manipulation and reality warping, so that could cancel out any gravity spawning shenanigans you mentioned, depending on how they work.
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What makes charisma logic basedLightbuster30 said:
and what stopped him from doing this to stop Tirek from making him betray his friends
And don't try comparing this to flutter's stare. His charisma is used much more often in actual combat situations
Joker consistently gets people who try to kill him to turn around a new leaf. I fail to see how he can Power null something that's not magic. That's just a part of Joker as a person.
I vote Joker
Joker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA9iW8iG4ps
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So, remind me again why it was a good idea to pit a type 1 abstract against a guy who can't interact with them?
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Trust me when I say a lot of people know this fight was a mistake
But we're trying to make it work
Yeah, this fight shouldn't exist. It's been nothing but a pain for everyone. But as you said, we're trying to make it work.
But we're trying to make it work
Yeah, this fight shouldn't exist. It's been nothing but a pain for everyone. But as you said, we're trying to make it work.
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Btw, I vote Joker if I haven't already said that.
MrKerf
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My bad than, I'm a bit sleepy.
So, Discord can't powernull - because Abstract Type 1, can't Transmutate - because Resistance. In my book it is a stomp.
First of all, can I see this resistance? We've already established that some Ren's resistances are a bit iffy.
Second of all, how does Ren's death hax works?
So, Discord can't powernull - because Abstract Type 1, can't Transmutate - because Resistance. In my book it is a stomp.
First of all, can I see this resistance? We've already established that some Ren's resistances are a bit iffy.
Second of all, how does Ren's death hax works?
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He shouldn't power null to in theory just kill Ren lol He has other options he just doesn't kill people immediatly as long as he knows they can't hurt him. it's in his character which not a lot of ren's spells can do.MrKerf said:
Also death hax work by killing the target it doesn't really matter what it is. it works on Personas and shadows so going ghost can't save him
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As far as transmutation, I don't know. But the way Ren's death hax works is that if an enemy doesn't have death manip resistance, they will get hit by the move, since it spawns at the target's location and activates instantaneously. And if you get hit, that's game over unless you have resurrection. The only reason anyone survives death hax in Persona is because pretty much all characters in the verse have some level of resistance. The same applies to status ailments too, but that's irrelevant at the moment.MrKerf said:
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That would work, but I don't know if Die for Me has AoE. Mamudo/Mamudoon do.MrKerf said:
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