Discord vs Joker (Ren Amamiya)

[Smashkabab]

I agree. You made a number of excellent points. Joker FRA

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Why did the OP change it from bloodlusted discord???

Discord doesn't stomp in that scenario, in that scenario it's just incon

 

[Multipize]

I agree. You made a number of excellent points. Joker FRA

Thx

 

[Multipize]

Why did the OP change it from bloodlusted discord???
Discord doesn't stomp in that scenario, in that scenario it's just incon

with bloodlusted discord just takes ren outta the meta verse and kills him that's his win-con as of now but when bloodlusted it become an unaviodable certainty

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

You don't understand how Joker can think and infinitely screw him over as well.

Bloodlusted is a textbook definition of Incon

 

[Lightbuster30]

Discord doesn't lose fights because his opponent has bigger number by being outmatched He givesthem chances

Do....do you even know what a fight is? Literally none of the examples you used ever showed Discord in a fight for his life the way he is right now. He wasn't fighting anyone. Elements of Harmony: He knew he was gonna lose and let himself be hit.

Drained by Tirek: Either Plot Induced Stupidity or he was too shocked to fight back.

The Bell? He wasn't convinced to do anything, he told them where it was because it was part of the plan. He failed in not realizing they would turn on him. And even then that still counts as plot induced stupidity since he actively struggled and failed to escape Chrysalis's webbing despite being stronger than Starlight Glimmer, who in turn can break it easily.

Elements of Hamrony 2.0? What the hell was he supposed to do? He had every right to assume they would fail when they did so once already, and even if he could they sent out a blast wave over all of Equestria that undid Discord's magic. Even if he dodged the beam, he'd get caught in the blast and turned to stone anyways.

Tl;dr, every so-called "chance" you like to talk about is either entirely justified or pure plot induced stupidity; usually the latter.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Also: Why are people pretending like enhanced charisma isn't a superpower? Because it's a natural part of him? I'm sorry, but by that logic you might as well say being strong enough to punch a planet to pieces isn't a superpower because hey, strength is also part of someone. Like hell it isn't.

 

[Multipize]

Also: Why are people pretending like enhanced charisma isn't a superpower? Because it's a natural part of him? I'm sorry, but by that logic you might as well say being strong enough to punch a planet to pieces isn't a superpower because hey, strength is also part of someone. Like hell it isn't.

His charisma has to do with his qualities as a leader and personallity

Destroying a planet takes power

Knowing how to manipulate people is strategy

 

[Multipize]

Discord doesn't lose fights because his opponent has bigger number by being outmatched He givesthem chances

Do....do you even know what a fight is? Literally none of the examples you used ever showed Discord in a fight for his life the way he is right now. He wasn't fighting anyone. Elements of Harmony: He knew he was gonna lose and let himself be hit.
Drained by Tirek: Either Plot Induced Stupidity or he was too shocked to fight back.

The Bell? He wasn't convinced to do anything, he told them where it was because it was part of the plan. He failed in not realizing they would turn on him. And even then that still counts as plot induced stupidity since he actively struggled and failed to escape Chrysalis's webbing despite being stronger than Starlight Glimmer, who in turn can break it easily.

Elements of Hamrony 2.0? What the hell was he supposed to do? He had every right to assume they would fail when they did so once already, and even if he could they sent out a blast wave over all of Equestria that undid Discord's magic. Even if he dodged the beam, he'd get caught in the blast and turned to stone anyways.

Tl;dr, every so-called "chance" you like to talk about is either entirely justified or pure plot induced stupidity; usually the latter.

And those chances are a result of him underestimaing his opponent which is listed as one of his weaknesses it's too consistent to be considered an outlier at this point he's not fighting for his life because nothing Joker can do can push him that far. He ethier one-shots him or shoots him with a spell or air gun (that shouldn't even work in this scenario now that if you really think about it) that can't hurt him he would just delete it or take no noticible damage.

I believe Discord would see Joker underestimate him which just let him do this ]

Which would give him the chance that would not be PIS, but Joker taking advantage of Discord's constant over confidence. His page wouldn't say something about it if it wasn't a part of Discord's character

 

[Smashkabab]

Also: Why are people pretending like enhanced charisma isn't a superpower? Because it's a natural part of him? I'm sorry, but by that logic you might as well say being strong enough to punch a planet to pieces isn't a superpower because hey, strength is also part of someone. Like hell it isn't.

First of all, has the power null been demonstrated on anything besides that bad luck spell? If it hasn't, I think it's more akin to counterspelling than anything else. Still useful in this fight, just less so.

And if Discord can use that power NOT ONLY negate magic, but undermine his charisma, something entirely unrelated to what this power null has been shown to work on afaik, that's an NLF. It's like saying that Joker can deduce pressure points in an enemy using info analysis. It doesn't work that way.

Characters need to explicitly demonstrate that they can use a certain ability in a certain way for that ability to be used in that way for discussions like this. Otherwise, we may as well say "well, base Joker can kill an angel in just a few hits, therefore base Joker is High 6-A because base Bayonetta also kill an angel in just a few hits."

I took a look at Discord's power null. As far as his page is concerned, it has literally never been shown to work on anything other than magic. Therefore, we have no reason to assume Joker's charisma would be nulled.

Edit: I just looked at the page on Chaos Manipulation and its potential uses, here's what I found:

Triggering natural disasters, destruction, or disharmony, confusion, and strife among people. Therefore users can create several external factors that may impede an opponent's chance of victory.

Literally nothing about power null.

Edit 2: I just checked the Law Manipulation page, just in case. Here's what I found:

High-level users may be able to "prohibit" the use of certain power or abilities in a universe, rendering the users of said power powerless.

First of all, Discord's like mid-tier as far as Law Manip users are concerned, maybe even low-mid. Second, nothing about this description screams "can null any power, no matter how separate from what the user usually deals with". Why would Discord be able to null charisma just because it's superhuman? Are you implying magic was involved?

 

[Multipize]

Also Joker's gun works by tricking his opponets into thinking it's real and the fear of the phantom thieves let's the shadows imagine the bullets actually hit them

Not only is Discord not afraid of Joker

He also doesn't recongnize a gun so this mindgame would not work

Therefore the gun should just be blowing air on him

Also at least 8 people have commented on this thread how do we only have 4 votes in

 

[Smashkabab]

I know, right? At this point, I just want this thread to end. And yeah, guns don't work if the enemy doesn't, at least subconsciously, recognize it as a gun. Therefore, it may as well be one of those gag guns with the "Bang!" flag on the end. Luckily though, guns aren't a part of Joker's wincon. Charisma and Death Manip are.

 

[Smashkabab]

His charisma has to do with his qualities as a leader and personallity

Destroying a planet takes power

Knowing how to manipulate people is strategy

THANK YOU! Yes, absolutely, this. This is correct. Joker's charisma is a part of who he is as a person instead of what his body is.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The Heck??

 

[Multipize]

The Heck??

For future reference it's better to ignore stuff like this

 

[Smashkabab]

The Heck??

What are you referring to?

 

[Multipize]

The Heck??

What are you referring to?

Random stuff people post for no reason

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Also Joker's gun works by tricking his opponets into thinking it's real and the fear of the phantom thieves let's the shadows imagine the bullets actually hit them
Not only is Discord not afraid of Joker

He also doesn't recongnize a gun so this mindgame would not work

Therefore the gun should just be blowing air on him

Also at least 8 people have commented on this thread how do we only have 4 votes in

No, it's the persona users conception withinside the metaverse, not the enemies.

 

[Multipize]

Also Joker's gun works by tricking his opponets into thinking it's real and the fear of the phantom thieves let's the shadows imagine the bullets actually hit them
Not only is Discord not afraid of Joker

He also doesn't recongnize a gun so this mindgame would not work

Therefore the gun should just be blowing air on him

Also at least 8 people have commented on this thread how do we only have 4 votes in

No, it's the persona users conception withinside the metaverse, not the enemies.

So they imagine the bullets. I've never heard someone say that

I mean Morgana didn't say that

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Akechi has blatantly fake toy weapons. Also you have an ammo count that is independant of the enemies perception of your available and reliant on your mental understanding of how much you have.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Also Joker's gun works by tricking his opponets into thinking it's real and the fear of the phantom thieves let's the shadows imagine the bullets actually hit them
Not only is Discord not afraid of Joker

He also doesn't recongnize a gun so this mindgame would not work

Therefore the gun should just be blowing air on him

Also at least 8 people have commented on this thread how do we only have 4 votes in

Guns; while not being shown in MLP, are indeed a real thing in the verse. Guns, and weapons that operate on gunpowder have been referenced several times in the cartoon. They know what the weapon is.

 

[Smashkabab]

Akechi has blatantly fake toy weapons. Also you have an ammo count that is independant of the enemies perception of your available and reliant on your mental understanding of how much you have.

Source?

Even if this is true, it shouldn't make a difference since Discord's regen is far above what guns should be able to do, even if we used a customized Tyrant Pistol. But it's fine, since Joker's wincon isn't based on guns anyway.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Also Joker's gun works by tricking his opponets into thinking it's real and the fear of the phantom thieves let's the shadows imagine the bullets actually hit them
Not only is Discord not afraid of Joker

He also doesn't recongnize a gun so this mindgame would not work

Therefore the gun should just be blowing air on him

Also at least 8 people have commented on this thread how do we only have 4 votes in

Guns; while not being shown in MLP, are indeed a real thing in the verse. Guns, and weapons that operate on gunpowder have been referenced several times in the cartoon. They know what the weapon is.

>MLP knows about guns

Insert edgy MLP joke

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Incon FRA btw.

No matter if Discord is IC or Bloodlust, or if it's the show version or the one from the comics, it's just a who strikes 1st scenario

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Also, this thread is going in 2 million directions, can someone try to summarize the points instead of going in circles on useless points which proves the debate useless

 

[Lightbuster30]

First of all, has the power null been demonstrated on anything besides that bad luck spell? If it hasn't, I think it's more akin to counterspelling than anything else. Still useful in this fight, just less so.

I took a look at Discord's power null. As far as his page is concerned, it has literally never been shown to work on anything other than magic. Therefore, we have no reason to assume Joker's charisma would be nulled.

Once again: Discord did not negate the magic. The spell depends on logic in order to function. Discord's chaos has no logic. Since it has no logic, the spell is unable to function. He does not negate the spell itself. He negates what the spell works with. Logically speaking; Ironic considering who and what we're talking about, as long as the power relies on logic, it should cease to function. To what degree, idk. I'd assume at least up to his level of power? Maybe?

 

[Multipize]

Discord could win by teleporting Joker out of the metaverse and killing him

Joker should win due to his Charisma being able to convice Discord to take the battle to the the meta-verse then kill him with Anubis, Alice, or any other persona with Death hax

That's why I voted Joker

 

[Lightbuster30]

Wait, how is Joker gonna convince Discord to fight in the meta-versa after he's been teleported out of it? How is he going to communitcate like that? Oh, and I'm condeeding on not nulling charisma, if only to end the argument over it.

 

[Smashkabab]

Voting Joker FRA. Still a "fastest draw in the west" kind of deal, but Charisma + Death Hax should win the fight for Joker more times than not.

 

[YungManzi]

@Smash

He has effects with pistol shots. At least Freeze, burn, and shock after custiomization and gravity gun also inflicts despair.

And as far as gun attacks not working on people who don't see the guns as real goes, unless someone is REALLY oblivious/dimwitted they would still be convinced that the gun Ren holds is real (As he has been able to use it against literally everything he's come across).

This works double for someone who has never seen a gun before, and would have no way of knowing the difference between a real and fake one.

 

[Multipize]

Wait, how is Joker gonna convince Discord to fight in the meta-versa after he's been teleported out of it? How is he going to communitcate like that? Oh, and I'm condeeding on not nulling charisma, if only to end the argument over it.

Through Charisma if he's softens him up a bit he can get him to think he'll win wherever, and he would send him back.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Wait, how is Joker gonna convince Discord to fight in the meta-versa after he's been teleported out of it? How is he going to communitcate like that? Oh, and I'm condeeding on not nulling charisma, if only to end the argument over it.

Through Charisma if he's softens him up a bit he can get him to think he'll win wherever, and he would send him back.

>Charisma

>A silent protagonist who can only negotiate with near-death fodder shadows

>On discord


huh

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Akechi has blatantly fake toy weapons. Also you have an ammo count that is independant of the enemies perception of your available and reliant on your mental understanding of how much you have.

Source?

Even if this is true, it shouldn't make a difference since Discord's regen is far above what guns should be able to do, even if we used a customized Tyrant Pistol. But it's fine, since Joker's wincon isn't based on guns anyway.

It's how the metaverse operates. Akechi wouldn't be able to use blatant toy weapons against the thieves if they could just be like "lol akechi put that collector lightsaber down". Ammo would be based on what the opponent perceives and thus you'd like never run out.

The part about the guns being realistic is just a benefit, as if the thieves went around with squirt guns trying to manifest them into real working guns there would most likely be cognitive dissonance on both ends.

 

[Multipize]

Akechi has blatantly fake toy weapons. Also you have an ammo count that is independant of the enemies perception of your available and reliant on your mental understanding of how much you have.

Source?
Even if this is true, it shouldn't make a difference since Discord's regen is far above what guns should be able to do, even if we used a customized Tyrant Pistol. But it's fine, since Joker's wincon isn't based on guns anyway.

It's how the metaverse operates. Akechi wouldn't be able to use blatant toy weapons against the thieves if they could just be like "lol akechi put that collector lightsaber down". Ammo would be based on what the opponent perceives and thus you'd like never run out.
The part about the guns being realistic is just a benefit, as if the thieves went around with squirt guns trying to manifest them into real working guns there would most likely be cognitive dissonance on both ends.

I doubt they could use water pistols Something like a slingshot would work because that's an acutal weapon

 

[Multipize]

Wait, how is Joker gonna convince Discord to fight in the meta-versa after he's been teleported out of it? How is he going to communitcate like that? Oh, and I'm condeeding on not nulling charisma, if only to end the argument over it.

Through Charisma if he's softens him up a bit he can get him to think he'll win wherever, and he would send him back.

>Charisma
>A silent protagonist who can only negotiate with near-death fodder shadows

>On discord


huh

1. you do a lot of talking and get a lot of girls in Persona 5 for a silent Protagonist

2.He doesn't only Charisma shadows

3. Discord has been persauded out of doing things his like banishing tree hugger or capturing Tirek. He has also underestimated his opponets before that's how he loses, it's part of Discord

 

[YungManzi]

Ren's charisma is being downplayed I see...

 

[Smashkabab]

This is getting way off track. Can we please focus and finish this up? Guns aren't a part of either fighter's wincon, so it doesn't matter.

Btw, for those having trouble following along, Joker's wincon is Charisma and Death Hax. Discord's wincon is teleporting them both out of the Metaverse, then killing Joker before he can be sweet-talked into letting Joker back into the Metaverse.

 

[YungManzi]

Gun's could absolutely be a wincon for Joker. Discord has nearly 0 resistance to their effects. Both as an attack and as ailments.

 

[MrKerf]

Well, that was unexpected.

 

[Multipize]

Gun's could absolutely be a wincon for Joker. Discord has nearly 0 resistance to their effects. Both as an attack and as ailments.

If all else fails he can delete the gun it has no resistances to existance erasure or transmutation