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Anyway, I agree that Bill's Powers and Abilities section needs a revision, I'm not opposed to this being closed and redone when Bill's profile is complete with the new CRT they apparently will do later.
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Bill Cipher vs Discord but it's on vsbattle wiki now! (Stomp in discord's favor?))
- Thread starter Brogeefrong
- Start date
- Status
ShionAH
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Comes to the town, instantly turns Prestons face into a horrifying mess
Instantly starts petrifying random people after doing it
Created weirdness waves instantly when he came to the town, which transmutate things
Did it to Ford after making fun of him
Does it to random stuff he sees just for the fun of it
Literally got eye creatures that petrify things for Bill
It is revealed he petrified EVERYONE in the town.
Did it to Ford instantly when he stopped needing him
Instantly transmutated 6 of the rituals members instantly after he found them
Come on now. Bill spams it all the time. Plus the Unicorn Hair makes the Shack immune to Bills powers.
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Most of those things weren't during a fighting situation, like the times he does it for fun, or petrifies people before they escape in order to create his throne, the waves apparently don't even work on everything they touch, and the creatures that petrify people to Bill are outside help and shouldn't be allowed. The only time he really fought someone (well, something) it took him a while to use his powers correctly, since he started with punches (even when he didn't know that the Shacktron had a force field, and even when he realized it, he kept hitting it) and as a result suffered a counterattack that left him vulnerable for a considerable time. The likelihood that Bill, wanting to fight, sees Discord and decides to petrify him instead of going to punch him is pretty low considering what we see in the show.
Discord has better abilities to defeat Bill, and uses them quite well, as well as being resistant to several of Bill's powers (including transmutation and mind manipulation).
ShionAH
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Because Bill has never had to fight anyone in the verse. The only character that "fought" with Bill was literally immune to all of his hax.
They have no where to escape. Bill just likes spamming it
Yep. Its kind of random, still shows how much Bill uses it
Its his minions and can technically be considered his summons since unlike Henchmaniacs they dont have personalities.
I think we are ignoring that Shacktron can likely not be transmutated or haxed to death. It has the shield for weirdness as its stated and showed several times. I also want to say the reason he kep hitting was because his ego was hurt and he couldnt think straight
Why did you ignore him doing it to 6 people right after he sees them and him doing it to Ford right after he doesnt need to talk to him anymore? Bill simply loves Petrification a lot.
Bills transmutation makes it so they dont have a conscious iirc
- Mind Manipulation, Astral Projection (1 layer; Bill implies he now doesn't need dreams to enter minds, since he was gonna enter Fords mind anyway if he did not have the metal plate[8], Bill can also now Mind Control people when he wants, leaving them as flying puppets with likely no consciousness[8]. Paralyzed the minds of all the zodiac symbols before turning them into banners, including Old McGucket, who is unaffected by the Memory Gun, that can erase minds and memories)
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Reading is one thing, remembering everything by heart is another (especially a minor detail). Anyway, Shion is making a good argument, Bill just went crazy and attacked the Shacktron like that because his ego is easy to hurt. Plus Bill doesn't need to be a genius to know that he won't be able to petrify a shack with legs, so it's a pretty understandable reason why he didn't start with that on that occasion.
The question is, which happens first, Bill petrifies Discord/manipulates Discord's mind or Discord erases him from existence/puts him to sleep/petrifies him/seals him/nullifies his powers?
@Brogeefrong
I change my vote to neutral, but depending on the upcoming arguments I may vote for Bill later.
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Would that be incon or just a removed vote
ShionAH
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Can Low-Godly save Bill for that?
I think Discord needs feats of him being capable of putting things with Self Sustenance 3 into sleep.
Bill is getting resistance to this
How does Discords sealing work?
Bill is also likely getting a resistance to this
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For the moment remove my vote.
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In fact, yeah, how did I forget Bill has that? It's literally the first thing he uses in Weirdmageddon lol.
However, he doesn't have them yet.
I didn't read the comics, but apparently he sealed Cosmos in an object or something.
ShionAH
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Obviously lol.
So he only used it once? With a optional equipment?
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All the information I have on that ability is this:
So I have no idea if Discord needs that item or can use that ability with whatever he wants.
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I'll just say petrifaction/transmutation isn't working on Discord regardless. Petrifaction is just transmutation for one thing, and Discord can petrify himself just fine and undo it. We know he's immune because if you petrify yourself with your own magic, you're trapped as a statue until freed, meaning Discord would need resistance to said power to use it on himself with no issues. The one time it worked was when he was up against his own kryptonite.
ShionAH
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But wouldn't Discord need his conscious to turn himself back?
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Stone sleep specifically forces the mind into unconsciousness and Discord was completely immune to the sleep part of the spell. The one time it worked on him was when Luna did it, and he had his defences lowered so she could help him with his nightmares.
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Also, pretty certain Discord's powernull just bypasses. For one the powernull used on Bill worked on a totem. Bill 2-A and uncountably infinitely more powerful than an animated piece of wood. He can resist 3D powernull at best. Discord's powernull operates at a 4D scale, nullifying 4D levels of magic as easily as puffing out a candlestick. He can even nullify substances that specifically nullify magic at such scales.
ShionAH
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What I mean is when Bill uses Petrification it seemingly leaves his victims with no consciousness, If discord has to turn himself back from stone using his powers wouldnt he need to think which he cannot?
Discord being able to resist Sleep Manipulation doesnt mean "He can never lose his consciousness"
This is pointless and we should continue this after the CRT goes through so I will leave and come back later
AP has nothing to do with hax, Bill doesnt have HDE. If Discords null is 4D then I guess it does work.
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You can't think when you're brain is a rock. That's transmutation101.
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Discord can remain conscious when turned into random shit and just change himself back. Consider Discord is an abstract being, he doesn't really have a true form anyway. He's a Spirit of Chaos first and foremost. So unless Bill is affecting that abstract form, I doubt it'll do anything to his consciousness.
As for Bill, Shion, while he does use his more chaotic powers to mess up stuff. Every time we see him going into a fight, we seem him use punches or energy blasts.
The best example of his real starting move is Time Baby. Someone he actually thought was a threat. He immediately went with energy blast.
Against Shacktron, he went with punches and strikes.
Also, type 3 does not make Bill untouchable, unless you are going to argue that Mabel's pepper spray can interact with nonexistence.
He simply is in a state of being and not being at once. Not some weird "I'm nonexistent when attacked" shit. Cause that clearly isn't the case in the show, EVER.
As for Bill, Shion, while he does use his more chaotic powers to mess up stuff. Every time we see him going into a fight, we seem him use punches or energy blasts.
The best example of his real starting move is Time Baby. Someone he actually thought was a threat. He immediately went with energy blast.
Against Shacktron, he went with punches and strikes.
Also, type 3 does not make Bill untouchable, unless you are going to argue that Mabel's pepper spray can interact with nonexistence.
He simply is in a state of being and not being at once. Not some weird "I'm nonexistent when attacked" shit. Cause that clearly isn't the case in the show, EVER.
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Not even a threat. Rather Bill just hated Time Baby and wanted to kill him as soon as possible. Dude insults and trash talks Time Baby any chance he gets.
Eden_Warlock99
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Pretty sure only Mindscape Bill has the NEP
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The problem is even in the mindscape he has contrary showings.
ShionAH
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Depends on the verse and context. For example in Scribblenauts petrified people still can think. Its actually a very popular thing in fiction since it is kinda scary "I can see and feel everything but cannot move" type of deal
I also want to ask some stuff
"Removed Twilight and Rarity's horns, negating their use of magic"
Isnt this more of a weakness on their parts? Discord didnt nullify their magic, he simply destroyed their horns which lets them use magic?
Because Shacktron is you know...kinda immune to Weirdness (Even if the laser worked for some reason)? I also explained why he went with punches above (Ego!!)
Discord does not have AE 1. He is not "an abstract being that cannot be touched" he has AE 2 which is basically "He cannot die as long as this concept exist"
Even if we take Discord as an abstract being or a concept, Bill can literally affect concepts so it doesnt even matter.
ShionAH
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For the Time Baby thing, Bill wanted to kill Time Baby AND the soldiers so instead of turning all of them into objects or whatever he used the easier method. Which is to blast them.
Edit: "could think/remain conscious despite being turned to stone" this is a weakness of the petrification not an ability for Discord unless stated or shown otherwise
Edit: "could think/remain conscious despite being turned to stone" this is a weakness of the petrification not an ability for Discord unless stated or shown otherwise
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No, I said he puffed out 4D magic like a candle. In reference to him blowing away Starlight's magic when she tried restraining him.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,516
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Lad has a soul, his NEP just extends to his Body and Energy
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Ok 1: That's not a soul, that's a consciousness. 2: Is he no different in someones mind than he is outside? He's still in his mindscape form, just not directly in someone's mind.
ShionAH
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Where? I might be blind but I cannot see her trying to use TK
He removes Dippers spirit and takes his body. Mindscape contains Souls + Mind
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Discord doesn't even have a type on his profile. Lol. Old page.
He could be both of them tbh. He's created separate avatars like Grogar before and can easily make duplicates or act as anything he wants. So he doesn't really have a true physical form at all, no.
Anyway, it's not a weakness of Discord's magic, it's just that the mind/soul in my little pony are deeper than a physical brain, which is what would be transmuted.
And Discord specifically is also an abstract being.
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She has his hand wrapped in her magic aura, which is typically hot TK is portrayed in MLP.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying is the consciousness. Never really thought that was a soul. Just his disembodied mind.
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Anyway, I won't be able to comment much longer. Be gone for 8 hours.
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Discord's abstraction type is type 2. It is said to be the same as Cosmos, which is type 2 in its profile, not type 1.
ShionAH
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Ooh fair.
Souls exist in Gravity Falls Dipper would not have lost his body if he still had his soul inside
Weak Profile.
Scans for that? I only see Discord talk about how he can hear while he is a stone. This is a weakness of the Petrification rather than a ability for Discord
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I vote Discord
ShionAH
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Bro did NOT read the title
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I'm just saying my opinion in advance.Bro did NOT read the title
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- Thread starter
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Bump so it dosent get lost in the aether
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bump 2 so it dosent get lost
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Dude even if Bill is upgraded this is a stomp.
Discord first move is transmutation or power null. Is thought based.
And because speed is equalized, Discord retains his immeasurable travel speed (Rules equalized combat speed, and adjust every other form of speed accordingly).
With that, it means that while they'll react at the same speed, he can dodge anything Bill does at a speed he can't even comprehend.
And by the way, because Bill uses projectiles and waves to utilize his more hax based powers, Discord can just null or transmute them. Which is his most in character thing to do.
Discord first move is transmutation or power null. Is thought based.
And because speed is equalized, Discord retains his immeasurable travel speed (Rules equalized combat speed, and adjust every other form of speed accordingly).
With that, it means that while they'll react at the same speed, he can dodge anything Bill does at a speed he can't even comprehend.
And by the way, because Bill uses projectiles and waves to utilize his more hax based powers, Discord can just null or transmute them. Which is his most in character thing to do.
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