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Bill Cipher vs Discord but it's on vsbattle wiki now! (Stomp in discord's favor?))

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Phoenks said:
Dude even if Bill is upgraded this is a stomp.

Discord first move is transmutation or power null. Is thought based.

And because speed is equalized, Discord retains his immeasurable travel speed (Rules equalized combat speed, and adjust every other form of speed accordingly).

With that, it means that while they'll react at the same speed, he can dodge anything Bill does at a speed he can't even comprehend.

And by the way, because Bill uses projectiles and waves to utilize his more hax based powers, Discord can just null or transmute them. Which is his most in character thing to do.
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Yeah sadly I forgot about that whole deal. Discord kinda blitzes if its equal, Bill blitz if its not equal

So a mismatch
 
ShionAH said:
Yeah sadly I forgot about that whole deal. Discord kinda blitzes if its equal, Bill blitz if its not equal

So a mismatch
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Still a discord stomp in speed unequal because Bill has to grow to galaxy size to get that speed. Discord just blitzes him and uses hax before he can do that.
 
Does Discord really start with Power Null? I kinda doubt it since the only non-biological Power Null lad did, seems to be this one
Bill's best wincons are also snaps, not projectiles, so I don't think the immeasurable speed thing really matters
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Does Discord really start with Power Null? I kinda doubt it since the only non-biological Power Null lad did, seems to be this one
Bill's best wincons are also snaps, not projectiles, so I don't think the immeasurable speed thing really matters
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Bill doesn't do snaps at his enemies in character. So doesn't matter. His most common starting moves are either punches, energy beams, or chaotic projectiles.

Discord starts with either transmutation into random shit or nullification of powers yes.

Against projectiles, he transmutes them I to random stuff.

I'd appreciate if people stop being dishonest about Bill Cipher's starting moves. Especially in actual fights. He NEVER starts with the Hax you guys want him too.
 
Phoenks said:
Bill doesn't do snaps at his enemies in character. So doesn't matter. His most common starting moves are either punches, energy beams, or chaotic projectiles.

Discord starts with either transmutation into random shit or nullification of powers yes.

Against projectiles, he transmutes them I to random stuff.

I'd appreciate if people stop being dishonest about Bill Cipher's starting moves. Especially in actual fights. He NEVER starts with the Hax you guys want him too.
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Bill only fought once. Against Shacktron. Which he couldnt use hax on. He used energy blast because he wanted to kill Time Baby and his soldiers. Every other time he always went for snaps or petrification, he does it so much that I am tired of saying how much Bill spams his snappinf haxes.
 
I'm not sure transmutation would work on Bill, petrification is basically the same thing as it and lad is gonna get a resistance to it
I think Power Null is limited to what it's shown to nullify and doesn't even work on stuff that's stronger than what's shown, so not sure if that would work either
Also did Discord never fight anymore ever? Can't seem to find any fights lad did, if so I don't think we can assume lad just starts with his best hax

Agree with Bill not starting with snaps most of the time btw
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I'm not sure transmutation would work on Bill, petrification is basically the same thing as it and lad is gonna get a resistance to it
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He would need a resistant to transmutation, and not just being turned to stone, which is far more specific. So no on this.



Adem_Warlock69 said:
Also did Discord never fight anymore ever? Can't seem to find any fights lad did, if so I don't think we can assume lad just starts with his best hax
Click to expand...
Even when casual he nullifies attacks and transmutes people.

What?

Adem_Warlock69 said:
I think Power Null is limited to what it's shown to nullify and doesn't even work on stuff that's stronger than what's shown, so not sure if that would work either
Click to expand...
Discord can nullify the magic of 2-As like Starlight who scale higher than Bill. Moot point.
 
Phoenks said:
He would need a resistant to transmutation, and not just being turned to stone, which is far more specific. So no on this.
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I don't really see the difference between becoming a statue and becoming a dorito, Iwhy would Bill's soul disappear for the latter and not the former?
Some lads above even argued that Bill's petrification wouldn't work on Discord because of his resistance to transmutation, so yeah
Lightbuster30 said:
I'll just say petrifaction/transmutation isn't working on Discord regardless. Petrifaction is just transmutation for one thing, and Discord can petrify himself just fine and undo it. We know he's immune because if you petrify yourself with your own magic, you're trapped as a statue until freed, meaning Discord would need resistance to said power to use it on himself with no issues. The one time it worked was when he was up against his own kryptonite.
Click to expand...
Even when casual he nullifies attacks and transmutes people.

What?
Click to expand...
This talking about Sombra right? I mean, we have Bill who always goes for his hax abilities when casual but goes for Fisticuffs in actual fights, so ehhh
Plus, lad was transmutating the projectiles with snaps, not really using his thought-based abilities
Discord can nullify the magic of 2-As like Starlight who scale higher than Bill. Moot point.
Click to expand...
It nulled Telekinesis, not sure if it would work on more ethereal powers
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I don't really see the difference between becoming a statue and becoming a dorito, Iwhy would Bill's soul disappear for the latter and not the former?
Some lads above even argued that Bill's petrification wouldn't work on Discord because of his resistance to transmutation, so yeah
Click to expand...
Transmutation covers petrification, but not the other way around. Transmutation is basically an umbrella that includes things like petrification, while petrification is a very specific form of transmutation.

Adem_Warlock69 said:
This talking about Sombra right? I mean, we have Bill who always goes for his hax abilities when casual but goes for Fisticuffs in actual fights, so ehhh
Plus, lad was snapping to transmutate the projectiles, not really using his thought-based abilities
Click to expand...
There are countless times with the Mane 6 where he just pulls a silly and transmutes them or himself constantly. Or transmutes the enviornment and whatnot.

By transmuting the projectiles, he nullified them.

Also, it's been addressed on his profile that he doesn't actually need to snap. He just does a lot of the time.


Adem_Warlock69 said:
It nulled Telekinesis, not sure if it would work on more ethereal powers
Click to expand...
Why not? Discord has nulled magic, physiology, projectiles, etc.

At this point you're just nitpicking to give Bill any possible chance at this fight lol
 
Phoenks said:
Still a discord stomp in speed unequal because Bill has to grow to galaxy size to get that speed. Discord just blitzes him and uses hax before he can do that.
Click to expand...
Not really, the current profile has that as his base speed.
 
Phoenks said:
Transmutation covers petrification, but not the other way around. Transmutation is basically an umbrella that includes things like petrification, while petrification is a very specific form of transmutation.
Click to expand...
Very specific transmutation is still transmutation tho
That's like if someone who could survive as a candy bar, died if they turned into a steak
Doesn't really make sense
Also, it's been addressed on his profile that he doesn't actually need to snap. He just does a lot of the time.
Click to expand...
Lad still usually does it instead of going for the thought-based thing, so it's still a weakness me think
Why not? Discord has nulled magic, physiology, projectiles, etc.
Click to expand...
Going by the profile, the first one is biology manip, the second one is Power Null against telekinesis and in the third one he had help from Celestia or whatever
Transmutating projectiles is quite different than nullifying them, that's like giving someone Power Null for using casuality manipulation so that the attack never went off
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Very specific transmutation is still transmutation tho
That's like if someone who could survive as a candy bar, died if they turned into a steak
Doesn't really make sense
Click to expand...
Someone who can survive being petrified isn't necessarily going to survive being turned into balloons, mist, or some vastly different form of matter, no.

If you disagree then get Bill a resistance to Transmutation.

Otherwise this point is moot.


Adem_Warlock69 said:
Lad still usually does it instead of going for the thought-based thing, so it's still a weakness me think
Click to expand...
Not really. Snapping doesn't mean he isn't thinking.

It's like how Yogiri Takatou usually says "Die" but his death hax are still thought based.



Adem_Warlock69 said:
Going by the profile, the first one is biology manip, the second one is Power Null against telekinesis and in the third one he had help from Celestia or whatever
Transmutating projectiles is quite different than nullifying them, that's like giving someone Power Null for using casuality manipulation so that the attack never went off
Click to expand...
Regardless of your believes of what these are Bill's powers aren't really ethereal, especially compared to what Discord has been up against. So I'm gonna full disagree on him not being able to nullify them.

If anything, matter and space hax are less ethereal than purely magical abilities, by the way.


Also, I don't even know why Bill's transmutation is being argued here. Discord resist transmutation.

He also resist most of Bill's other Hax abilities.

So like... what's the argument?
 
Phoenks said:
Someone who can survive being petrified isn't necessarily going to survive being turned into balloons, mist, or some vastly different form of matter, no.

If you disagree then get Bill a resistance to Transmutation.

Otherwise this point is moot.
Click to expand...
Transmutation and Petrification might get fused, so maybe
Not really. Snapping doesn't mean he isn't thinking.

It's like how Yogiri Takatou usually says "Die" but his death hax are still thought based.
Click to expand...
I mean, Starlight stopped Discord from teleporting by using her TK to stop him from snapping his fingers, sooooo
Lad also just watched while Tirek restrained him with TK instead of using his powers
Regardless of your believes of what these are Bill's powers aren't really ethereal, especially compared to what Discord has been up against. So I'm gonna full disagree on him not being able to nullify them.
Click to expand...
The magical ability here being Telekinesis, not any of Bill's main wincons
 
Let's see, no matter how many abilities they give to Bill, this is still a brutal stomp.

The MLP characters are already much stronger and more powerful than Bill, with Discord being the top tier only being surpassed by Cosmos.

Secondly, Discord constantly applies Transmutation + Power Nullification + Resistance Nullification + Reality Warping + Many other random things. Bill is more into punching and throwing projectiles, so Discord would undoubtedly be annoying him without coming into physical contact. Discord since his first appearance has been able to deny Celestia's magic to steal the Elements of Harmony and ignore Twilight's attempts at restoration, turning Sombra's attacks into a complete joke and even threatening to send him back to the shadows, when he became Accord, he stripped Luna and Twilight of their powers while they were in his mind and practically did the same with the other characters, he prevented Luna from entering her dreams no matter how much she wanted to, etc.

Adem_Warlock69 said:
Going by the profile, the first one is biology manip, the second one is Power Null against telekinesis and in the third one he had help from Celestia or whatever
Transmutating projectiles is quite different than nullifying them, that's like giving someone Power Null for using casuality manipulation so that the attack never went off
Click to expand...

Btw his Power Null its not limited only for Bio Manip and Transmutation.
 
TheShape03 said:
Anyway, I agree that Bill's Powers and Abilities section needs a revision, I'm not opposed to this being closed and redone when Bill's profile is complete with the new CRT they apparently will do later.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this should be done now.
 
well now that my little pony is accepted to have a universal energy system, discord probably has layered hax

i mean its a stomp for discord anyway but yh
 
ArzCosmos_888 said:
The MLP characters are already much stronger and more powerful than Bill, with Discord being the top tier only being surpassed by Cosmos.
Click to expand...
Is he? I don't keep up with the comics, but aren't Tirek, the EoH, Magic of Friendship Mane 6, the Pony of Shadows, the Storm King, etc., superior to him?
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
The others yeah but I don't remember anything suggesting these two surpass Discord.
Click to expand...
I mean, in terms of pure magical power, I think so?


While Discord lost to the Elements, it took all of this for the Shadow Pony.

And even then it was difficult.
Multiverse level+ (Withstood a blast from the combined effort of the Elements of Harmony, Star Swirl, the other Pillars and Sunburst. It required all the Elements, the Pillars, Starlight, and Sunburst to separate Stygian from the Shadow)
Click to expand...

And your AP adapts to your durability.
Multiverse level+ (Scaled from durability.
Click to expand...
 
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