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Dio versus Diavolo

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Dio fra

Also why does everyone assume that epitaph would allow diavolo to see the time stop

At best it would either show him the outcome only and he would think it's similar to his ability or it would show him some incomprehensible mess of everything that occurs during the time stop all playing in his mind within a nanosecond and he would understand none of it
 
Paul Frank said:
Dio fra

Also why does everyone assume that epitaph would allow diavolo to see the time stop

At best it would either show him the outcome only and he would think it's similar to his ability or it would show him some incomprehensible mess of everything that occurs during the time stop all playing in his mind within a nanosecond and he would understand none of it
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This. Not to mention how every Diavolo voter ignored how The World's cooldown would be done when Diavolo's cooldown would of just started.

Anyways it's not grace. Incon incoming?
 
Oof, my bad.


Dio Brando: 8 (ThePixelKirby, Dragopentling, Arrogant Schmuck, HierophantDeluxe, X Squared, Paul Frank, Arsenal1212, Anttron)

Diavolo: 9 (Triforce, Lord Urien, EmperorDoom, Kirby75, Overlord775, TacticalNuke, Tincan123, Zephyros, SinsofMan)
 
DIO FRA btw. Pixel's reasons make sense.
 
DIO FRA.

This is like the third time this match has been done and it's different each time, will it ever stop?
 
Alright, let's clear some things up.

Diavolo not being able to tell what happens during stop time doesn't matter. His trade mark mindset makes that pointless. He sees what happens after that time stop and that is all that will matter to him. King Crimson has no notable cool down, and he can see 10 seconds into the future, so Epitaph will always counter the world unless he chooses to needlessly exhaust his entire 10 seconds. Diavolo is prideful but he isn't a moron, so the second he sees his target attacks (as he sees it) either instantly or incredibly fast, he will always time skip the minimum amount of time he can, which is .5 seconds.

Now, he "teleports" behind DIO and donuts him, but when he sees him regenerating, he goes for something more fatal. Against Bruno, he knew just went for more strong blows of the same type because he knew they were effecting. If DIO starts regenerating, and he sees his attack wasn't working, he goes for the head and wins, and if that doesn't work and DIO keeps regenerating, then he goes for the limbs. Also, let me remind you that DIO cannot as easily regenerate from his stand being broken, such as when Jotaro broke The World and DIO couldn't properly regenerate, at least not fast enough to heal before sun rise. Now, Diavolo may need to play this perfectly to win, but that is exactly what Epitaph is for. He can see what will happen, but if anything is too big for him not to handle, then he just erases time as always. Diavolo also would not simply de-summon King Crimson against a foe who he can see has healing. Again, Diavolo is prideful but he isn't a moron.

Thus, I vote Diavolo. DIO's regen doesn't help much when The World is shattered.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Alright, let's clear some things up.
Diavolo not being able to tell what happens during stop time doesn't matter. His trade mark mindset makes that pointless. He sees what happens after that time stop and that is all that will matter to him. King Crimson has no notable cool down, and he can see 10 seconds into the future, so Epitaph will always counter the world unless he chooses to needlessly exhaust his entire 10 seconds. Diavolo is prideful but he isn't a moron, so the second he sees his target attacks (as he sees it) either instantly or incredibly fast, he will always time skip the minimum amount of time he can, which is .5 seconds.

Now, he "teleports" behind DIO and donuts him, but when he sees him regenerating, he goes for something more fatal. Against Bruno, he knew just went for more strong blows of the same type because he knew they were effecting. If DIO starts regenerating, and he sees his attack wasn't working, he goes for the head and wins, and if that doesn't work and DIO keeps regenerating, then he goes for the limbs. Also, let me remind you that DIO cannot as easily regenerate from his stand being broken, such as when Jotaro broke The World and DIO couldn't properly regenerate, at least not fast enough to heal before sun rise. Now, Diavolo may need to play this perfectly to win, but that is exactly what Epitaph is for. He can see what will happen, but if anything is too big for him not to handle, then he just erases time as always. Diavolo also would not simply de-summon King Crimson against a foe who he can see has healing. Again, Diavolo is prideful but he isn't a moron.

Thus, I vote Diavolo. DIO's regen doesn't help much when The World is shattered.
Click to expand...
1. This doesn't explain that Diavolo not understanding DIO's time stop is actually really, really bad for Diavolo.

2. You say he skips the minimum amount of time, but rarely does he actually do this. Against Bruno, for example, he spent many seconds slowly walking around Bruno and watching him attack a wall/pillar- even completely missing Bruno's escape with his precog.

3. If he aims for the leg, DIO can still respond and kill. DIO's entire leg was severed (Base DIO) and his chest was blown open at the same time, and he showed no signs of pain.

Last but most importantly, this argument does not cover how DIO will simply use Time Stop right after Diavolo's first Time Erase and go for an easy kill. While Diavolo will be on cooldown, DIO will be off cooldown, so DIO will use Time Stop and kill.

Not to mention, DIO's Stand is still faster. Worst comes to worst and somehow Diavolo manages to skip literally every single Time Stop ever, which he can't, DIO can simply learn Diavolo's pattern after the first two attacks and, after every Time Erase, spin around with his much faster Stand and fight back. Diavolo can't regen, and if The World so much as lands a finger on Diavolo himself, he's ******* dead. Seeing as Diavolo is much, much slower than DIO, and DIO won't be holding back if someone lolnopes his Time Stop, DIO can simply squeeze one punch past King Crimson and completely obliterate Diavolo.

So not only does Diavolo have to modify his cooldown to be shorter than it actually is, but he also has to get faster so The World doesn't just zip past and hit Diavolo directly. He can't even Time Erase this, either- If he Time Erases DIO punching him out of Time Stop, not only will his attack not hit, but DIO can just Time Stop instantly after Time Erase ends and go for the kill, again.

 
1. Not really? Why is it an issue. He can see the results, and unless he is a dumbass and jumps more than he needs to he is fine

2. I said he would do it against DIO. When he knows his enemy can do an untold amount of actions in, what is to his perspective, an insanely small time frame, he isn't gonna do his insanely long time skips. He was doing his incredibly long time skips because he was trying to **** with Bruno, but against someone like DIO, he can see that it is advantageous to go for shorter time frames

3. No, he can't. If he tries, he just erases time again. I didn't mention anything about pain

That would be a really great strategy, except that Diavolo doesn't have a cool down, and unless he exhausts his entire 10 seconds he would be able to tell that DIO was going to stop time again there and either extend his erased time slightly further to compensate or just end it slightly shorter so he could erase time on both attempts.

Being faster doesn't matter since Diavolo always has time to react due to Epitaph. Diavolo won't use that attack pattern because he can see it won't work. All of this assumes Diavolo won't know what DIO is going to do next, which he can. Time Erasure is instant, and has no notable cool down. Anything DIO tries, he sees and either erases time longer or shorter to compensate.

Interesting idea but Diavolo has no notable cool down. If he sees Diavolo is going to do that, then he just erases time either longer to account for that attack, or erases time shorter so he can erase time twice to account for both attacks. You also act like DIO will know when Diavolo is erasing time, which he won't.

Put it like this, If DIO was going to erase time right after, he would need to know that Diavolo had just erased time, which he won't know, and even if he could, then Diavolo erases time to be longer by that instant, or he makes it shorter so he can erase time twice. Nice try, but no dice
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
1. Not really? Why is it an issue. He can see the results, and unless he is a dumbass and jumps more than he needs to he is fine
2. I said he would do it against DIO. When he knows his enemy can do an untold amount of actions in, what is to his perspective, an insanely small time frame, he isn't gonna do his insanely long time skips. He was doing his incredibly long time skips because he was trying to **** with Bruno, but against someone like DIO, he can see that it is advantageous to go for shorter time frames

3. No, he can't. If he tries, he just erases time again. I didn't mention anything about pain

That would be a really great strategy, except that Diavolo doesn't have a cool down, and unless he exhausts his entire 10 seconds he would be able to tell that DIO was going to stop time again there and either extend his erased time slightly further to compensate or just end it slightly shorter so he could erase time on both attempts.

Being faster doesn't matter since Diavolo always has time to react due to Epitaph. Diavolo won't use that attack pattern because he can see it won't work. All of this assumes Diavolo won't know what DIO is going to do next, which he can. Time Erasure is instant, and has no notable cool down. Anything DIO tries, he sees and either erases time longer or shorter to compensate.

Interesting idea but Diavolo has no notable cool down. If he sees Diavolo is going to do that, then he just erases time either longer to account for that attack, or erases time shorter so he can erase time twice to account for both attacks. You also act like DIO will know when Diavolo is erasing time, which he won't.

Put it like this, If DIO was going to erase time right after, he would need to know that Diavolo had just erased time, which he won't know, and even if he could, then Diavolo erases time to be longer by that instant, or he makes it shorter so he can erase time twice. Nice try, but no dice
Click to expand...
1. Because Diavolo won't know if or how to play around it besides skipping it. If he used precog on other attacks, he'd know how to dodge or counter them, even without time erasure. With Time Stop, he'll have no clue how to respond besides skipping over it.

2. I need to see evidence of him doing this. Against.. basically everyone, he uses Time Erasure for far more time than neccessary and misses incredibly predictable attempts to escape/avoid him.

3. Yes he can? DIO is much, much faster, and time erasure is incredibly easy to pick up on. Giorno, on the boat, near instantly picked up that something was wrong, and he wasn't in the fight in the first place. DIO can simply realize that his opponent is gone and that he moved places, which will instantly surprise him, and considering he's in a fight and is much faster than Diavolo, he can respond quickly.

Diavolo has always acted like he had a cooldown in just about every fight. The periods in between Diavolo's erasures have been, at shortest, around equal if not longer than the periods in between DIO's time stops.

If Diavolo doesn't use that attack pattern, how does he attack DIO? Once DIO survives the first attack, he can simply learn to turn around any time things suddenly change. Again, Time Erasure is pretty obvious when it's used, so every time it's used, DIO will just turn around if he doesnt' see Diavolo and fight him. Meaning, your very argument is saying that Diavolo will be unable to get close to DIO.

If Diavolo erases like that, he'll be quite literally unable to ever get close enough to land a hit on DIO. Every time Erasure ends, DIO will go for a quick attack or a time stop, and he'll either have to Erase again, or die. Meaning, he'd never have time to land a hit.

Let's make this clear. Time Erasure is very, very, very obvious. Suddenly, you teleport to a different spot and your opponent that you were fighting is gone. Sure, the first time may be confusing, but after that? You'll teleport, see your opponent is gone, and known "Oh hey, he did that thing again". Because it's that obvious.

So no, DIO still wins. Your very argument confirms that Diavolo can't ever land a hit on DIO without having to erase his own attack, since DIO will strike back first or at near to the same time.
 
1. You seem to be implying that he had a counter to time stop other than timer erasure to begin, which he does not. He only ever had one counter to time stop, which is his time erasure. It makes no difference at all

2. Usually when he is hit, it is because the attacks aren't work skipping. He has limited stamina, so any attack that he can just tank he will. The only reason he skips long is because he is trying to screw with people, which shorter time frames don't do that much.

3. No, it isn't. Not unless you know what to look for. If it was so easy to pick up on, then the blood drip method to track time erasure would not have needed to be invented. Knowing that time is skipping is relatively easy, especially because Diavolo was not trying to screw with them, he was trying to screw wit Giorno. Trying to determine precisely when time is skipping at that exact moment is much harder, especially if Diavolo is actively choosing his time frames to try and make sure he enemy won't figure it out.

He has a cool down, but not a notably long one. Him spamming time erasure unnecesarilly is detrimental to him, so he has no reason to erase time and then immediately do it again unless there is an attack coming up. Besides, he can choose to have his cool down only happen at unimportant times due to his precog

Attack from other angles, use his stealth style time erasure to cut off DIO's hands without him noticing, put blood in his eye, etc. He has no reason to stand right behind him when he sees what DIO will do. Its obvious when you are doing something like eating or drinking something and suddenly there is far more than before, but unles you are doing something like that it isn't obvious. Especially if Diavolo is trying to not give his foe hints. Diavolo just stands at an angel that he knows DIO won't turn to face, that easy.

No? he has many other places to attack from. There are other directions other than behind and infront lol.

Only obvious when Diavolo isn't actively trying to hide it. Giorno and the squad picked it up because Diavolo wasn't trying to hide it from them, but Bruno couldn't pick it up. This is because Diavolo just chooses when to erase time to hide it from a foe.

Diavolo only cannot land a hit if you happen to forget the other 350 degrees that exist around someone other than front and back lol.
 
I'm limited in time right now so:


A person can see close to 180 degrees just by looking forward. If someone turns around, they've just looked over all 360 degrees. Soo....


By your definition, Diavolo can't land a hit.
 
If DIO even can notice that time has been erased, that take a moment, and it takes another moment to turn around. In the first split second Diavolo already attacked. You are implying DIO can immediately notice Diavolo's stealth in his periferal vision, but that is false. Depending on which way DIO turns, Diavolo has time to strike before he flips all the way around

Also, you still have not accounted for the old hand swap trick, which DIO's turn around method doesn't counter. DIO also cannot counter blood in his eyes blocking his vision, which also stops that turn around method real quick
 
My whole point with saying that diavolo would see everything that occurred within the time stop playing at the same time within a nanosecond was that if that happens it's at the very least disorienting

If that's how he would see the time stop then that means he sees every single action that happened during that time stop play at the same time, not really quickly one after the other but everything would play at once at the least that would disorient him or possibly worse
 
@ThePixelKirby you are assuming that Dio Will immediately use time stop after time erasure, its not, Dio Will get confused after seeing Diavolo just dissapeared, and even if he is faster, he won't do turn around fast enough, Diavolo blows head and finishes quickly, Bucciarati, per example, was outright pale by confusion, Also yes, i know Diavolo Will aim for the head, remember Epitaph, Diavolo precogs, sees himself being blown up, and sees Dio as a threat, then erases time, Also Dio doesnt know about the time erasure, dont assume Dio instantly uses [The place we all live on] again, even with the cooldown passed, It isnt passive Dio has to do It, and won't vía my reasons.
 
Kirby71 said:
@ThePixelKirby you are assuming that Dio Will immediately use time stop after time erasure, its not, Dio Will get confused after seeing Diavolo just dissapeared, and even if he is faster, he won't do turn around fast enough, Diavolo blows head and finishes quickly, Bucciarati, per example, was outright pale by confusion, Also yes, i know Diavolo Will aim for the head, remember Epitaph, Diavolo precogs, sees himself being blown up, and sees Dio as a threat, then erases time, Also Dio doesnt know about the time erasure, dont assume Dio instantly uses [The place we all live on] again, even with the cooldown passed, It isnt passive Dio has to do It, and won't vía my reasons.
Click to expand...
Dio has shown he responds to surprises and confusion with Time Stop, though? When Jotaro jumped out and surprise attacked him, he stopped time. When Polnareff attacked him, he stopped time afterwards to kill Polnareff.

It was already debated thoroughly that Diavolo rarely if ever aims for the head. It's OOC.

Sooo. yea.

As for what Iap said, none of that addresses DIO just responding to Time Erasure ending with Time Stop, then proceeding to murder Diavolo. Not to mention that DIO is still faster, so once he understands Diavolo's pattern, he'll be able to fight much more evenly with Diavolo even without spamming Time Stop, which he will.
 
>once Dio underSTANDS Diavolo's pattern

This fight is fast, the fight can literally last seconds, It is to get Blown Up in head, or to get time stopped.

>It was already debated thoroughly that Diavolo rarely if ever aims for the head. Its OOC

Diavolo may be prideful, but he isnt a moron, you are assuming Diavolo will not go for a safe kill, after seeing himself being blown up vía Epitaph, Also, Dio's stand ability isnt hard to pick up, he Will see everything happening instantly, so he Will notice that dio can time stop, after seeing that, i doubt Diavolo doesnt attackcthe head or do a mega attack rush.

Also Dio did answer Jotaro and polnareff's attacks vía time stopping when he was under attack already, what if he just doesnt see the opponent? he Will just look around, but late.
 
Kirby71 said:
>once Dio underSTANDS Diavolo's pattern
This fight is fast, the fight can literally last seconds, It is to get Blown Up in head, or to get time stopped.

>It was already debated thoroughly that Diavolo rarely if ever aims for the head. Its OOC

Diavolo may be prideful, but he isnt a moron, you are assuming Diavolo will not go for a safe kill, after seeing himself being blown up vía Epitaph, Also, Dio's stand ability isnt hard to pick up, he Will see everything happening instantly, so he Will notice that dio can time stop, after seeing that, i doubt Diavolo doesnt attackcthe head or do a mega attack rush.

Also Dio did answer Jotaro and polnareff's attacks vía time stopping when he was under attack already, what if he just doesnt see the opponent? he Will just look around, but late.
Click to expand...
So you agree that if Diavolo doesn't aim for the head (Which he won't, as every single Diavolo fight dictates), DIO time stops and wins?


Diavolo isn't a moron, but take Diavolo vs Bruno. He had so much time to aim for the head, but he just didn't. He could literally see Bruno's escape plan ahead of time with Epitaph, and he didn't even try to stop it until it was too late. And that's just one example. I like Diavolo for a character but evidence places it OOC.


DIO will likely take such an odd situation during battle as an attack. Think about it- suddenly his opponent vanishes, and DIO is in a different spot. That's a wee bit suspicious. And knowing how DIO responds to any surprising situation with a Time Stop with varying degrees of quickness, I see no reason why he wouldn't gun for it here.
 
I did address what Diavolo can do about him stopping time right out of erased time. If DIO was going to, then He doesn't any more. It's that simple. If DIO was fated to stop time after the erased time, then the points erased compensate to make sure that didn't happen. I have said this repeatedly.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
I did address what Diavolo can do about him stopping time right out of erased time. If DIO was going to, then He doesn't any more. It's that simple. If DIO was fated to stop time after the erased time, then the points erased compensate to make sure that didn't happen. I have said this repeatedly.
Click to expand...
..Which would mean Diavolo never gets to hit DIO, since every single time time erasure ends, he instantly has to erase time again to avoid Time Stop, Which is not only dubious and OOC, but also unlikely that he could do that given all the downtime in between uses of his erasure.

I feel like this debate is going in a circle. We haven't brought anything new to the table, we've just been rephrasing old points.
 
You missed my point entirely. He isn't erasing time immediately after, he is doing his initial erasure to account for DIO attempting to time stop him right out of his erasure. I am not claiming he would erase time right out of erased time, I am claiming that DIO would never get the chance to attempt it because any time he was fated to that time would be included in the erased time he was originally trying to stop time straight out of. also, what do you mean by "all the downtime" in between uses lol? he has no notable cool down other than what he chooses as to not over draw himself

You just missunderstand completely, which is frustrating. DIO will never get the chance to time stop straight out of erased time, because that time he was going to stop is included in the time that was erased. The event you repeatedly bring up would never occur
 
On the contrary, I feel as if you misunderstand my point completely. Regardless, we have both made our arguments many, many times. Little has changed. Let's let the votes come in and determine the fate of the fight.
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Part 3 Dio.
Dio Brando: 9 (ThePixelKirby, Dragopentling, Arrogant Schmuck, HierophantDeluxe, Genericstickman, Xanxussama1010, Torlikoff, Mr Bambu, Anttron224)

Diavolo: 7 (Triforce, Lord Urien, EmperorDoom, Kirby75, TacticalNuke, Tincan123, Jackythejack) Inconclusive:
Click to expand...
I think.
 
I think.
This is messing several votes on both sides. Give me a sec
 
Dio Brando: 14 (ThePixelKirby, Dragopentling, Arrogant Schmuck, HierophantDeluxe, X Squared, Paul Frank, Arsenal1212, Anttron, Bambu, DaBig, Generic, Tornio, Xanxu, Inverted)

Diavolo: 10 (Triforce, Lord Urien, EmperorDoom, Kirby75, TacticalNuke, Tincan123, Zephyros, SinsofMan, Iap, Jacky)

Correct me if I am wrong but this means Grace for DIO, having started... 14 hours ago?
 
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