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Devil May Cry: Question about Dante's speed

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Matthew Schroeder said:
He wasn't enhanced by the sword anymore, the power was in the sword not him.
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The mundus boss fight is the on time you can go devil trigger with the Sparda sword equipment he was still drawing power from the sword and like I said before when dante didn't have the sword with him a injured mundus called him weak and trish helped seal mundus away because dante at that point wasn't able to defeat mundus
 
The sword was still massively enhancing him. Otherwise he never could have damaged Mundus or withstood attacks from him.

You mean Abigail?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Mmf, Dante beat a demon who is equal to Mundus in base in anime.

Yeah, no.
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Yeah no the original Abigail once rival mundus but dante didn't fight the real Abigail he fought Sid who had control of Abigail power and dante did use his devil trigger
 
You keep saying that, but there is no evidence that the current Abigal is weaker, you just assume it is because it breaks your narrative. No evidence of Devil Trigger either.
 
To explain what Sparda means it's been shown that lower beings cannot use the full power, examples being Arkham and Sanctus.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
You keep saying that, but there is no evidence that the current Abigal is weaker, you just assume it is because it breaks your narrative. No evidence of Devil Trigger either.
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If you go on Abigail dmc wiki page it says dante did use his devil trigger to beat Sid also Abigail is not equal to mundus it was said he once rival him
 
It's actually been pretty consistently shown that someone weak can't fully handle demonic power. Arkham and Sanctus both started out far superior to Sid and yet couldn't fully wield Sparda's power.

It's also worth noting the statement that Abigail rivalled Mundus came from Sid who would have only heard rumors and the like, and what's more rivalled is a loose term, especially if you consider Mundus was weakened after his fight with Sparda and Abigail wasn't sealed by Alan Lowell until after that. So he could have "rivalled" a weakened Mundus. And that's not considering the fact that if Mundus is vastly above other demons Abigail could be among the strongest of the rest.

And actually there is some evidence of Devil Trigger.

Devil_Trigger.gif


If you look closely at Dante's eye when everything turns red you can see his iris gets slightly smaller.
 
People can put anything they do on the wiki.

The ground turning red means little, the scene is purpusefuly ambiguous.

You are the one amking the most assumptions.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
People can put anything they do on the wiki.

The ground turning red means little, the scene is purpusefuly ambiguous.

You are the one amking the most assumptions.
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It even says the same thing here if you look at Dante's equipment and read what's under rebellion it says one devil triggered slash cut down Abigail
 
It's worth noting that if you want to put Abigail at Mundus level that would require upgrading Abigail and DMC 4 Dante to universe level. This wiki currently lists him as far below Mundus, rightly so. This would mean upgrading him to that level based on a statement he made that he rivalled Mundus, a statement contradicted by the ease with which Dante beat him and Dante's statement to him.
 
They never say Abigail is on par with mundus they said he was once able to rival him Abigail is more powerful then the normal demons dante faces put he is not on mundus's level not anymore from what the characters in the anime say
 
@Mat Dante's voice at the time though is more to the indication of his DT as his voice gets a lot deeper when using DT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zTV_N1xEBE at around 15:19 and onwards notice the slight voice difference when they clashed as for that split second Dante's voice went really deep.

And yeah when Arkham and Sanctus tried to use Sparda's power they can;t use it fully (Arkham turned in a blob and Sanctus was defeated by Nero) And Sid is a low-level demon tbf but i'm not sure if that is an indicator as such
 
This is a very long thread, and the feat does not seem to be accepted, so it may be best if I close it.
 
Antvasima and Matthew, please read this.

In response to Matthew saying Dante beat Abigail in base:

In Redgrave's video Dante's voice changes into a demonic voice at about 15:50. Redgrave's right. The voice clearly changes and then energy erupts.

Here's another video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bw8UswJlo68

At 1:30 you can hear Dante's voice change and you can hear the snarling demonic voice while Dante's crushing Sid. That is what his Devil Trigger sounds like. It also accompanies a burst of red energy and electricity.

And here is a video of the Japanese version with non-English subtitles (sorry about that)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h4CDdUEiMRQ

At about 7:40 his voice change also happens, and in the Japanese version it is a lot more obvious.

And here's Japanese with English subs.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l_TqBlQGxrY

In this one his voice changes at 3:30. It is very obvious.

This makes it clear he did use Devil Trigger. And it isn't Abigail's voice; Abigail's Japanese voice is heard near the start of the video and sounds absolutely nothing like that.

Now, ultimately the insistence that it's an outlier is currently built on Dante being able to keep up with Mundus in base and Abigail being Mundus level. First things first, keeping up with Mundus.

Many Devil Arms do enhance the wielder even without Devil Trigger, including two stated to enhance speed.

These Devil Arms are Alastor:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130453/4643064-alastor1.png

And Beowolf:

http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/640426/images/beowulf.jpg

This proves Devil Arms can enhance physical abilities with their magic.

And if the sword Sparda wasn't enhancing him he could never have harmed Mundus and certainly couldn't have withstood his attacks, and afterwards when he doesn't have it Mundus laughs at him and calls him weak.

And for proof he can still take Mundus's attacks, here is another video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ti1ot6ABdA

At 0:14 the projectiles prove to be able to somewhat damage Sparda Devil Trigger Dante. And at 0:27 he reverts to base and is getting hit with the projectiles still. You can see several go off right next to him with the blasts hitting him, and one appears to hit him directly, all while he's in base. On top of this he can of course withstand his attacks in gameplay.


And for Abigail:

Here's an explanation for why in DMC demonic power being wielded by a lower creature has consistently been demonstrated to be incomplete. Following is a video of Arkham.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8tsNZkAdBko

At 3:06 Vergil states Arkham can't control Sparda's power, and at about 0:40 Dante proved it by blocking Arkham's attack. They then proceed to beat him.

Bear in mind Arkham was more powerful than Sid to start with.

Sanctus was the same in DMC 4. Here's a video of Sanctus while wielding the Sparda sword. Note he does have a connection to it. He isn't just wielding it, it's why he looks like he does here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpp1YagAibM


Dante laughs at Sid's power, and there's no instance of an unworthy demon stealing power in DMC and getting all of it; they invariably turn out inferior to the original. What's more the original Abigail could have easily been weaker than Sid implied. Overall it seems a bit of an assumption to assume he's on Mundus's level.

As a final note, if we still say Abigail is Mundus level it won't make an outlier of the feat, since Devil Trigger is how Dante beat him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/755217839951187968

Above is confirmation Devil Trigger is a big boost and not a small one.
 
Antvasima said:
This is a very long thread, and the feat does not seem to be accepted, so it may be best if I close it.
Click to expand...
But Matt's reasons on why the feat is a outlier aren't true he said dante defeat mundus in his base form which is incorrect he was still drawing power from the Sparda sword that's why he can go into the Sparda devil trigger His second reason on why it's a outlier is that dante defeat Abigail in his base form who was on par with mundus that's not true as well Abigail once rival mundus he wasn't on par at some point in Abigail's career he did have power rival mundus but not anymore hence why they said once Matt's last reason on why the feat is a outlier is that dante doesn't go at mftl speeds but it doesn't matter like me random helper and Redgrave said before dante holds back in his fight he never goes all out the only time we have seen him go all out is in his fight with mundus
 
@Sparda Okay, but you need to try to structure the sentences of your posts better. The last one is hard to read.
 
Okay. No problem.
 
So is the dmc god tier getting the speed upgrade both me and random helper have given evidence and points on why it's not a outlier
 
I do not know. I am not the best person to evaluate it.
 
If the outlier claim finally stops, the best way to evaluate is to look at Calcs already done by Lina Shields and ThePerpetual.

Even if not, I propose that enough evidence against the outlier claim exists to at least factor it as a possibility in the profiles.

Antvasima, you have seen the information I posted, right? A lot of comments have arrived since so people may miss it, so I'm asking.
 
You people are still spreading misinformation.

Dante will not be upgraded based on an outlier that is contradicted in both DMC 1 and DMC 2.
 
Feel free to close it, Antvasima, all that's happening is that the thread maker is repeating his arguments.
 
I presented counters to the Abigail stuff and the Mundus stuff. I'm not repeating, and I didn't create this thread.

Antvasima, a few comment up I responded to the claim that Abigail lost to base Dante, and other things which are what was being used to call it an outlier. It isn't meaningless.
 
You didn't prove anything, you are still insisting that Abigail is MUCH WEAKER when there's no proof he is, one example doesn't prove another, and Dante is noft MFTL+ when the scene he does the questionable feat still shows no result.

Also, lel using Kamiya's tweets for anything.
 
@Matthew Please try to be polite. I know that you and I are both stressed out, but Random-Helper323 has not done anything bad.

@Random-Helper323 I am very tired, with lots of different tasks to constantly handle at once, so I have a hard time focusing enough to properly evaluate your arguments.
 
Fair enough on all counts. I understand very well what stress is like, but with due respect to both of you Matthew isn't addressing what I said but is rather just dismissing it; even if his response regarding Abigail is true that was only part of my argument. I'm sure he has an understandable reason, but between the exhaustion and the constant hostility it seems someone else taking a look in a while would be good. Is that okay?
 
As I said in my previous post about 100 posts back, the problem at hand has changed; as a result, a new thread should probably be made. Dealing with all these problems while we're already at 356 comments doesn't seem very feasible.
 
AMM, that sounds fair, but can we be sure a new thread will be effective?

Also, could I discuss this thing with you sometime? I think I can explain why I don't think it is outlier, but this thread started out a mess and because everyone here seems to be dealing with personal problems, myself included, things just weren't good...
 
Apparently, Matt said something about making a new thread; it's regarding some of the matters being discussed here. So no need to worry about making a new thread. Wait on him.
 
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