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Devil May Cry: Question about Dante's speed

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So, what are all the other notable feats that are in DMC 2 and 4? Do they contradict any of Mundus' feats?

In any case, if there aren't any more FTL feats that can compare to Dante's space-travel feat, then said speed feat could be an outlier to say the least.

Dante actually devolved back from his Sparda Devil Trigger Dante during his final battle with Mundus, and beat him in that form. Hmm...
 
"So, what are all the other notable feats that are in DMC 2 and 4? Do they contradict any of Mundus' feats?"

Nothing that notably contradicts the feats.

"In any case, if there aren't any more FTL feats that can compare to Dante's space-travel feat, then said speed feat could be an outlier to say the least."

It just seems unreasonable to disregard it as one on that basis when generally an outlier has to have things contradicting it. This feat was performed by a character who is usually so non serious as to let slower enemies hit him for no reason, and was at that time both completely serious and far stronger than usual.


"Dante actually devolved back from his Sparda Devil Trigger Dante during his final battle with Mundus, and beat him in that form. Hmm..."

It's true, but Mundus had already been damaged and Dante still had the sword and was still using its power. At the end when he didn't have it he couldn't beat a seriously damaged Mundus.
 
Because you using the minor wounds Mundus had to justify base Dante suddenly keeping up with him. All this shows is that the Sparda boost transforming him into MFTL+ is impossible, again.
 
Here's the thing though. Devil Arms have effects on the ability of the user. For example the Alastor is stated to boost the user's speed, as is Beowolf. And if you try to change weapons the game tells you you won't stand a chance against Mundus with any other weapon.
 
Yes, showing that he needs the weapon to beat Mundus, he can do it without Devil Trigger, so Mundus isn't that faster than Base Dante.
 
Well he still has the Sparda Devil Trigger but as I said Devil Arms effect the welder's abilities even without the Devil Trigger, and several Devil Arms are stated to boost speed. Including Alastor, one of the very weapons stated to be unable to fight Mundus.
 
>Dante transforms into his Sparda Devil Trigger and flies around with Mundus

>Lina says it is MFTL+

>They aren't MFTL+ anymore when flying in gameplay

>Dante loses Sparda Devil Trigger, but can still fight with an kill Mundus

Conclusion = Mundus isn't faster than Base Dante.
 
">Dante transforms into his Sparda Devil Trigger and flies around with Mundus

>Lina says it is MFTL+"

Check.


"They aren't MFTL+ anymore when flying in gameplay"

They certainly don't look it, but it's shaky. Besides cutscenes are more notable than gameplay. Especially since gameplay is often slowed down and a bit inconsistent.


">Dante loses Sparda Devil Trigger, but can still fight with and kill Mundus

Conclusion = Mundus isn't faster than Base Dante."

As I said Devil Arms boost stats even without Devil Trigger, so that base Dante isn't the same as regular base Dante, and just the fact he can fight Mundus only with that sword proves he is substantially more powerful than normal when wielding it. Remember Mundus was practically shredded at the end and Base Dante without Sparda still couldn't beat him.

Given we already have the MFTL flight feat, which was achieved via a power boost from that same Devil Arm's power, and other Devil Arms also boost speed even without Devil Trigger, his base form with Sparda being much faster than his regular base form is actually very reasonable given he was definitely still tapping into the sword's power or he would have been powerless against Mundus.
 
It would behoove us to make sure that we understand what all parties are trying to communicate before we say anything ourselves, for we shall surely only frustrate each other further if we do not understand each other. Allow me to summarize the arguement of those who do not agree with the upgrades:

"Dante and Mundus are MFTL+ due to a feat in a cutscene. However that feat must be an outlier, for we see them move at much slower speeds in a subsequent cutscene. Furthermore, base Dante fights Mundus in the second phase of the fight, and since base Dante is obviously not FTL, this surely proves that the MFTL+ feat is an outlier. Lastly, DMC2 is rather lacking in such speed feats, and in that game, Dante supposedly exceeded Sparda in all regards."

Now, my rebuttal: Firstly, the validity of cutscenes supercedes the validity of gameplay in almost all cases. This is something we must consider in all games. Therefore, an impressive showing in a cutscene supercedes an unimpressive showing in gameplay. And as far as unimpressive showings go, two opponents flying throughout a planet's atmosphere and firing lightning, lasers, meteors, and flaming dragons (!) at each other while doing so ain't half bad. Besides, it was essential to the level design that the fight take place near the surface of a planet (for the second phase), and how in the world would the gameplay have conveyed MFTL+ flight under such circumstances without dizzying the player?

Now, the matter of base Dante in the second phase of the fight must be addressed. However, those who took the time to read my blogs before making claims know that Devil Arms can increase the users stats significantly, and vice versa. In fact, Dante wields the Sword of Sparda for a good period of time in the game, but it is only at the final battle that he can activate that specific weapon's specific Devil Trigger. Couple that with the fact that Dante could react to and deflect an attack from Mundus after failing to do so before his eyes obtained a red glow (a sure sign of obtaining his latent power) and it is evident to the observant thinker that even Dante's base form had obtained much power at that point. In the third phase, when Dante had neither the Sword of Sparda nor the Perfect Amulet, a Mundus who had just been dissolved and had a universe collapse on him laughed off Dante's attacks.

So, about DMC2. It is true that Dante does not have many speeds feats aside from the usual Sub-Rel. to Rel. stuff we've come to expect from base form. The difference is, he's got nothing to worry about by not going 100% here. The only time Dante should have speedblitzed and didn't was against his first bout with Arius, and that was in a delicate hostage situation that overpowering and unsettling Arius could have worsened (if the scene wasn't just PIS outright).

EDIT: Aw, man, that showed up larger than I thought I would. Sorry for any inconvenience.
 
@Lina

I'm honestly sorry for how inconveniencing my long posts are; it's just that I hope to make my posts so thorough that some back-and-forthing can be avoided, especially since answering questions is difficult for me due to my difficulty connecting to the internet. I am new to all this. I'll try to narrow things down and answer questions as they come along.
 
This discussion is going absolutely nowhere, and most Staff and supporters of the game have agreed they will not get any speed upgrade.
 
Lina, I've typed paragraphs at least double that length before talking to you/others, and not once have you/others complained, let alone threatened to stop paying attention to my argument. Cut the guy some slack.
 
"This discussion is going absolutely nowhere, and most Staff and supporters of the game have agreed they will not get any speed upgrade."

Based on the notion that the feat is an outlier with no real reason to say it is.

"The "He's holding back" argument is invalid, you people need to stop using it. You guys sound like Saitama fans."

I just showed examples of him letting someone hit him which virtually negates many low end speed feats, and as I said he's far less powerful usually. What's more it's true the holding back argument does not work in the sense of assuming he's stronger on that alone, but there is a higher feat, performed by him when he's serious and also far stronger than usual.
 
@Perpetual

Thank you. I truly appreciate the sentiment.

@Matt

Saitama suffers from not having all that many serious feats in the first place. Also, I take no offense from your comment and can see where you're coming from, but perhaps we should avoid insulting each other in this or any other thread.

So, I've gotta go. I think I've addressed everything I can. The opposition has resorted to subjective opinions, such as whether or not a feat is consistent with the "rest of the verse," an arguement that is nebulous, subjective, and unquantifiable. Such things are obviously to be judged by a case-by-case basis as opposed to being thrown out as a blanket term whenever it serves one's needs, but I cannot combat a vaporous opinion. I think there has been enough information brought to light to begin the making of some general consensus, whatever that may be. I just hope there are no ill feelings among anyone, especially over something like a fictional character's stats.
 
You are the people making the more absurd assumptions, that Dante himself lowers his speed to millions of times slower than his best feat, when even the scene where he "performs" said feat invalidates it.
 
"You are the people making the more absurd assumptions, that Dante himself lowers his speed to millions of times slower than his best feat"

As I said that feat immediately followed a massive power boost, in addition to being the only time he fought seriously. And moving slower is something we've seen he does on purpose, so it's not an assumption.
 
Ok @Mat to be fair Dante did perform this MFTL+ feat in his sparda form and when he gave the sword to Trish he is unable to access that form anymore meaning he is like normally High 6-A (Cause the anime is after DMC 1 and before DMC 4) until DMC 2 with him using Majin as a substitute for the Sparda form. He is indeed superior to his father and Mundus at this point and another thing to note Mundus while disfigured and damaged called ALL of Dante's attacks weak as hell laughing at him when he didn't have the sword so his only choice was to use Jackpot! which sealed Mundus back to the demon world
 
Redgrave, he also needed Trish's help to do it, and it should be noted Trish had the Sparda sword and the Perfect Amulet which would have boosted both of them.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
>Dante transforms into his Sparda Devil Trigger and flies around with Mundus

>Lina says it is MFTL+

>They aren't MFTL+ anymore when flying in gameplay

>Dante loses Sparda Devil Trigger, but can still fight with an kill Mundus

Conclusion = Mundus isn't faster than Base Dante.
Click to expand...
Dante didn't lose the Sparda devil trigger mundus just knocked him out of it he could still use Sparda's devil trigger and this is the only time we see him use Sparda's devil trigger
 
Base Dante being just as fast as Mundus.

Mundus-level Abigail not being MFTL+

DMC 2 Dante and other DMC 2 characters having no MFTL+ feats
 
Base dante isn't as fast as mundus he was using the Sparda devil trigger the mundus boss fight is the only time we see him use the Sparda devil trigger The original Abigail once rival mundus but we didn't ever meet the original Abigail we meet Sid who was using Abigail's power Just because we don't see him move ftl in the game doesn't he can't its a big part of dante's character to never go all out he always holds back
 
Schroeder,

Okay, I see where things are a little confused.

"Base Dante being just as fast as Mundus"

As I said he was still using Sparda's power, and the fact he was able to fight Mundus then but later when he didn't have it he was powerless to fight Mundus proves he was still being enhanced by the sword.

And as I said Devil Arms boost stats outside Devil Trigger. Here's a link to Alastor on DMC wiki.

http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Alastor

"Mundus-level Abigail not being MFTL+"

Abigail isn't actually Mundus level.

Is the lack of quantifiable feats in DMC 2 really enough to call the feat an outlier?
 
Dante has no FTL feats either, certainly not one that requires a power boost and is contradict in the same scene. Dante was wielding the Sparda Weapon and needed it to kill Mundus, but he didn't need the Sparda Devil Trigger
 
We have a calculation for mundus and dante movin at mftl+ speeds but because we don't see any in dmc 2 it's being called a outlier Ps I know bayonetta is ftl+ I was just using her as a example
 
It is an outlier, get over it. We have adressed all the reasons as to why.

Base Dante wielding Sparda can fight Mundus. He doesn't need the Devil Trigger. So unless you think Dante from the anime, 4 and 2 is MFTL+...
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Dante has no FTL feats either, certainly not one that requires a power boost and is contradict in the same scene. Dante was wielding the Sparda Weapon and needed it to kill Mundus, but he didn't need the Sparda Devil Trigger
Click to expand...
He was using Sparda's power to fight mundus the boss fight with mundus is the only time we actually use devil trigger with Sparda outside of the boss fight if you equipment Sparda you can't use devil trigger also when a base dante fought a injured mundus Dante's attacks did nothing that's why trish had to help dante
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
It is an outlier, get over it. We have adressed all the reasons as to why.

Base Dante wielding Sparda can fight Mundus. He doesn't need the Devil Trigger. So unless you think Dante from the anime, 4 and 2 is MFTL+...
Click to expand...
Like what I said before anime and dmc 4 dante are weaker to Sparda devil trigger dante dante was using Sparda's power when he didn't have the sword with him a injured mundus called him weak
 
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