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Devil May Cry: Downgrade

Hello. I am a new person here on the wiki - I have lurked for a relatively long time and participated on the OBD here. I decided to make an account after learning about this. I am a proud DMC fangirl and it's one of my favorite fictions out there.

That said though.

Recently, Devil May Cry appeared to have received an upgrade to Universal level, and then to Universe level, possibly Universe level+. The reasoning for both of those is based off of a feat of the Devil King Argosax, for merging together two realms that are purported to be universe-sized or higher.

I am not going to argue against the existence of the feat, since it does seem that it's a legitimate lore feat in Devil May Cry 2.

The only thing here is: why is this feat not considered an outlier? I know this was discussed on the upgrade thread, but this feat is way beyond the other feats performed in the series. While the wiki does have a policy that the strongest, upper-level characters in the series receive much less strict "outlier" policies, since they're entitled to much superior feats, the problem here is that even other Upper characters in the verse, such as Mundus and Sparda, do have their own serious feats, and they don't come anywhere close to this feat:

  • Sparda - Sparda required a complex ritual to seal off the Temen-ni-Gru, the devil tower that connected the Underworld and the Earth in ancient times. That ritual included sealing his own power and giving away his blood in order to suppress the tower's demonic energy. If Argosax, a character equal or even inferior to Sparda's power, is able to fuse two Dimensions into one into, then logically Sparda should be capable of casually sealing off portals connecting them together. Yet he doesn't.
  • Mundus - Mundus himself required the usage of gateways to traverse between the worlds. After his powers were sealed away by Sparda, it took several years for the conditions for him to remerge and create such gateways to be adequate. Yet, he is established to be a Devil King equal to Argosax in power.
The other Upper Levels are much inferior in feats to Argosax, yet they aren't supposed to be inferior in power. Mundus is established as an equal to him, and so is Sparda, who in fact defeated and Sealed him off. And then the next best straightforward feats from characters inferior to the Upper Levels are Tier 7 to Tier 6.

So why aren't we rejecting it as an outlier?
I think it's pretty clear that Mundus' feat didn't involve a literal fusion between the two worlds, just the creation of rifts connecting both.
PhantomMistress said:
I think it's pretty clear that Mundus' feat didn't involve a literal fusion between the two worlds, just the creation of rifts connecting both.
Yes, the rifts were appearing due to Mundus merging the worlds, and Sparda undid the process. It's literally the same thing Argosax did.
"Long ago, in ancient times, a demon rebelled against his own kind for the sake of the human race. With his sword, he shut the portal to the demonic realm and sealed the evil entity off from our human world."

- DMC3 Introduction
Also, DMC5 literally states Mundus used the Temen ni Gru to travel to the human world

"The world of humans was once connected to the world of demons. The one who ruled the demon world set his sight on the conquest of the human world. The Legendary Dark Knight Sparda put the emperor and his minions to rest, and then sealed the gate connectin the two worlds."

A bit paraphrased but this is stated on the "Legend of Sparda" document, IIRC.
The Temen-ni-Gru was constructed by humans who were filled with greed and wanted to seek Demonic Power. Not by Mundus. And this is the case for every single portal to the demon world in the series; all of them are created out of rituals from human sorcerers who want to absorb demonic energy.
Yeah, no, we've had this song and dance before in the "possibly Low 2-C" upgrade thread. Dante utterly blitzed and stomped Argosax, who was warping time and creating paradoxes across universes. Argosax's feat was textbook Low 2-C.
To clarify on the outlier thing, to be blunt, the people who were insisting on the fear being an outlier just outright misunderstood what makes a feat an "outlier".

For a feat to be an outlier, it needs to be a feat that breaks a scaling chain by being far beyond any other feats performed by other characters in that scaling chain. To simplify the terms, when people refer to characters as "fodders", or "mid-tiers", or "god-tiers" (along with all the other terms) they are referring to characters who reasonably scale to eachother in their positions in the verse.

The problem here is that the 3-A and Low 2-C feats in DMC are literally the only God Tier feats we have, at least when it comes to a reasonable indication of their true strength. The outlier argument is based on saying that "there are only tier 7/8 feats in the series so far, so a tier 3/2 feat is an outlier". However, these tier 7/8 feats were performed purely by the fodders/low-tiers of the DMC verse.

What this means is that 3-A/Low 2-C feats performed by God Tiers (who are the only ones affected by those feats, mind you) do not break the scaling chain in any way as the God Tiers cannot reasonably be scaled based on the tier 7/8 feats. They were only scaled from them before out of necessity; not accuracy.

TL;DR. No, the 3-A/Low 2-C feats are not outliers, because they do not break the scaling chain for God Tier characters in any way.

(And yes, I know I simplified a few things here and there, but I think you all understand what I'm talking about)