Devil May Cry Discussion Thread 8

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Well then, we can get rid of such weakness.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Dante transformed into SDT, went flying to Urizen, remained for some time until Griffon took Nero, and still fights with Urizen in gameplay, then he runs out of time

It has a time limit, but it's not the same from gameplay, it's longer than that

Dante can also transform without stabbing himself

 

[GrathOfLux]

Dante transformed into SDT, went flying to Urizen, remained for some time until Griffon took Nero, and still fights with Urizen in gameplay, then he runs out of time

It has a time limit, but it's not the same from gameplay, it's longer than that

Dante can also transform without stabbing himself

What you're saying overall makes pretty good sense, but could you back up why the time limit in lore is longer than in gameplay? I'm willing to believe it, but I don't see any evidence.

 

[Dienomite22]

He's talking about how the cutscenes actually displaying SDT ,more specifically, when Dante first get SDT and then he flies to Urizen, Dante was in SDT way longer than when he uses it in gameplay.Wonder if the in game time stamps could give us a good time reference.

 

[ZERO7772]

So Dante can't stay in SDT for a long time? I guess it put too much stress on his body cuz when the transformation runs out he falls on his kness and is out of breath

 

[Dienomite22]

I don't think it's that it puts stress on his body since he just falls on one knee and slowly gets up but during the animation he doesn't look tired or is out of breath also the cutscenes and SDT SSS skill shows that he can go in and out of it freely without the fatigue.

 

[Dienomite22]

Oh yea, even Vergil doesn't have that recovery animation with his SDT

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

btw i think we should have presence concealment or smth like that cuz apparently sparda made his presence hidden according to V here: https://gyazo.com/2c53d691a7e183219c9b93dac43a5989?token=5f10174d67a018715614576ed53ac077

 

[Dienomite22]

Yeah, I think that would be limited stealth mastery with Sparda.Should DSD get it as well since it's Rebellion+Sparda+Dante?

 

[Sparda_20000000]

I'm pretty sure the devil sword Dante was stated to have all the powers of the rebellion and the sparda

 

[ZERO7772]

I don't think it's that it puts stress on his body since he just falls on one knee and slowly gets up but during the animation he doesn't look tired or is out of breath also the cutscenes and SDT SSS skill shows that he can go in and out of it freely without the fatigue.

I mean, it must put stress on him if he can't hold it for that long.

 

[ZERO7772]

After finishing the game, even the report question whatever Dante is stronger than his father after Sin DT

It sounds more and more unlikely that Dante was stronger than his father before he attain Root + Sin boost.

 

[Schnee_One]

Zero

Drop it.

Now.

 

[ZERO7772]

Wat? Sparda vs Dante is also banned?

 

[Schnee_One]

Oh I misread, whoops

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

@Black

Immeasurable fodders when?

Either way, that just looks like a fancy way of describing your typical Teleportation

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@Black
Immeasurable fodders when?

Either way, that just looks like a fancy way of describing your typical Teleportation

Sounds a bit as teleportation too,though they also mention speed for them there and going faster and such

 

[Twellas]

After finishing the game, even the report question whatever Dante is stronger than his father after Sin DT
It sounds more and more unlikely that Dante was stronger than his father before he attain Root + Sin boost.

It is stated in the History video in DMC5 itself that Dante from DMC2 was already stronger than Sparda and Mundus, the reason why it's said that SDT Dante MIGHT be superior to Sparda is because it was Nico who wrote the reports, she obviously doesn't know Dante's power

 

[Twellas]

We don't actually use that as evidence, since it's just game mechanics, and this wiki doesn't use multipliers in general.

You actually do, in MGRR for example, the multiplier from ripper mode was calculated in this exact way and it is included in the scaling

 

[Twellas]

Ok, so
I went in "Void" mode to calc the boost from DT and SDT All these results were obtained in DMD difficulty All 3 transformations had Swordmaster active when i tested All the values were obtained by using Dante as a weapon Here are the results

Base hit: 35 dmg DT hit: 50 dmg SDT transformation explosion: 50 dmg, Hit: 150 dmg

Hits to kill an hell caina Base: 26 hits DT: 18 hits SDT: 5 hits (including transformation explosion)

Hits to kill an Antora Base: 47 hits (the hell antora popped DT after 30 hits) DT: 32 hits (popped DT after 21 hits) SDT: 6 hits (including transformation explosion, no DT popped by the antora this time

Hits to killan Empusa Base: 9 hits DT: 7 hits SDT: 2

Hits to kill a Riot Base: 55 hits (DT popped at around 7) DT: 40 hits (DT popped around 6 SDT: 9 hits (DT popped at 2)

Hits to kill a Chaos Base: 52 hits (DT popped around 36) DT: 36 hits (DT popped around 24) SDT: 8 hits (no DT popped)

Not good at math, so i'll leave these values to you, what i think is clear is that SDT is consistently more than 3 times stronger than DT and 6 times stronger than base, i tested on many enemies so that i could give a large pool to consider, calc this in some way of you wish

So, did i just do all this work for nothing? can there multipliers\power ups be considered?

 

[Twellas]

@Black
Immeasurable fodders when?

Either way, that just looks like a fancy way of describing your typical Teleportation

Sounds a bit as teleportation too,though they also mention speed for them there and going faster and such

Yeah exactly, speed is the focal point of the demon and the report itself, it would make no sense for it to simply be teleportation, especially since gameplay-wise Fury always "teleports" by running

 

[Twellas]

We don't actually use that as evidence, since it's just game mechanics, and this wiki doesn't use multipliers in general.

Look at this, this is used in Raiden's profile, as he's listed as "small town level" in base and "town level" in RM

The MGRR values were obtained by only using 3 enemies btw, so it's not like it has a larger pool than mine

 

[Ogbunabali]

I don't know about Raiden or anything, but we don't use that as evidence.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Blade Mode might be alright due to it having a confirmed number in the guide but Ripper Mode probably not. Might need a downgrade then for that.

But yeah, we can't use how many hits it takes for enemies to die to scale and stuff, considering that thing changes between difficulties and especially games.

 

[Twellas]

I don't know about Raiden or anything, but we don't use that as evidence.

Again, you do and the Raiden page is proof of it And i think it's the least we can do until the actual magnitude of the power up is stated, i don't see why it's not reliable, it does change between difficulties but the ratio stays the same, it surely is better than just saying "higher with SDT\DT", then if the multiplier is somehow debunked it can be removed

 

[Ogbunabali]

What do you mean "I do"? How would you know what I know or not, considering I literally told you I don't know. Jesus.

And we have rules about this stuff. So no we won't use that as evidence for anything.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Problem using this as scaling would make random enemies that are fodder at best become the same level as Dante/Vergil/Nero by tanking their hits, which is a huge problem. Same with other video game characters, gameplay mechanics are not reliable in feats most of the time.

Enemies on DMD can get Devil Trigger but not all demons have it in story for example.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Again, you do and the Raiden page is proof of it And i think it's the least we can do until the actual magnitude of the power up is stated, i don't see why it's not reliable, it does change between difficulties but the ratio stays the same, it surely is better than just saying "higher with SDT\DT", then if the multiplier is somehow debunked it can be removed

Just because one page has it does not mean everything should follow its example especially with what seems to be faulty scaling.

 

[Twellas]

What do you mean "I do"? How would you know what I know or not, considering I literally told you I don't know. Jesus.
And we have rules about this stuff. So no we won't use that as evidence for anything.

Since when is DT being a boost to attack and speed only a gameplay mechanic? The gameplay simply shows the magnitude of the boost. Also i wasn't refering to you specifically as "you", but to the site itself


And as i said, i know it's not a perfect way of scaling it, but the power gap between the forms is still very consistent with very few exceptions. And the enemies being on the same level as Dante Vergil and Nero because they can tank hits from them takes for granted the fact that they are being serious and not simply suppressing themselves, which is far more likely, and even if the game buffs the enemies up to Dante's and Nero's level how does that inder the reliability of the multiplier gathered from the game itself? If anything it amplifies it since it means that Dante is actually fighting seriously. And it's better than "higher"

 

[Schnee_One]

Problem using this as scaling would make random enemies that are fodder at best become the same level as Dante/Vergil/Nero by tanking their hits, which is a huge problem. Same with other video game characters, gameplay mechanics are not reliable in feats most of the time.

Enemies on DMD can get Devil Trigger but not all demons have it in story for example.

This like.

Every game ever though

It really doesn't disprove scaling

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

It does though, scaling from random mooks who get bodied by the characters easily because they take a while to die is bad scaling. Lore wise they don't even compare to the MCs in the slightest.

We'd have High 6-A random badniks from Sonic, 2-A common champions or ultimates from Digimon and the same from random demons in SMT if we use this.

 

[Twellas]

But again, how does that effect the scaling for the multipliers? Or the scaling in general really, who cares about fodder being on the same level as the MCs, the fodder's only thing that puts them on that level is a gameplay mechanic

 

[Ogbunabali]

Since when is DT being a boost to attack and speed only a gameplay mechanic? The gameplay simply shows the magnitude of the boost. Also i wasn't refering to you specifically as "you", but to the site itself

Literally no one is claiming that DT isn't a boost. We are saying that DT is an unquantifiable boost to strength and speed, we don't apply a multiplier to it.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

The multiplier is from the damage output in the game, which is the problem. The SDT has no official multiplier in guides or in universe. So we can't put a number on it unfortunately.

 

[Twellas]

Since when is DT being a boost to attack and speed only a gameplay mechanic? The gameplay simply shows the magnitude of the boost. Also i wasn't refering to you specifically as "you", but to the site itself

Literally no one is claiming that DT isn't a boost. We are saying that DT is an unquantifiable boost to strength and speed, we don't apply a multiplier to it.

Then why did you link the page about gameplay mechanics? Has it ever been canonically stated that DT and SDT are unquantifiable? Yeah the multipliers are from the damage output in the game, which is used to represent the increase in strength that Canonically exist, as i said, as soon as any official info in regards to the magnitude of the amp from DT and SDT is released it takes the priority, but for now this is the most accurate we can be without going on a tangent, i really don't see why we shouldn't use something so consistently displayed in-game

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's not how it works.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

@Twellas

Well, you can propose that, but don't be surprised if it's just ignored or rejected.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

No, the Story of DMC states that Demons comparable to Mundus can't win against Dante, but nothing is said about Sparda

About Sin DT, Dante in cutscenes could stay on this form for at least some minutes, which is already much longer than in Gameplay, and it is stated on the Lore that it have a time limit

So what needs to be discussed ?

 

[Twellas]

@Twellas
Well, you can propose that, but don't be surprised if it's just ignored or rejected.

I'll run some more tests and then i might submit it, but how am i supposed to submit it?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Here: these threads should work .