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Marvel Comics' Street-Level Speed Revision

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M3X_2.0

VS Battles
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Marvel street heroes are currently rated as Massively Hypersonic+ for feats like dodging Electro's lightning (and some other feats that will be tackled soon). I want to change this.

Issues
First off, I know Electro's lightning might fit all of our criteria, and because of that his lightning should travel at 440000 m/s. But in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe from 2004, it's stated that his lightning moves at 1100 feet per second (335,28 m/s), roughly the speed of sound. In Amazing Spider-Man 334 (or 344 idk) it's stated he moves at 140 miles per hour while amped by his electricity.

I obviously know Marvel Handbooks/Databooks have some inconsistent information regarding some Lifting Strength statistics, but it doesn't mean everything there is inconsistent and shouldn't be used. That'd be association fallacy. Some handbooks take information directly from the comics and just put there with a diffent wording.

My objective here isn't just to remove the speed of lightning, it can stay. What I want to talk about is that Electro's "lightning bolts" act more like electricity discharge than a proper lightning bolt. Besides the speed statement being massively slower than what Electro's lightning is believed to be, visually it looks more like electricity discharge. Current Electro's electricity acts and looks like a discharge rather than a full lightning bolt.

Let alone all the questionable feats that were calculated, some of them looks way more like aim dodge than actually dodging the electricity itself. Some feats should be given a second look and if they're legit, calculated with the stated speed from the handbook, or use our electricity speed. I took a good look at some blogs with all the lightning feats, and they were done by Spider-Man or Spider-People in general. It's funny considering that Spider-Sense gives them a massive advantage to dodge everything before it happens.

Calculations
The Marvel Comics verse page sucks dick and doesn't have all the calculations listed. But what I found was this:
Honestly, I prefer to believe that Daredevil isn't blind and could see all this time than that he moves at roughly Sub-Relativistic speeds (Spoiler from someone who have read all his appearences: He doesn't move that fast). Honestly, Street Heroes are much more consistent as bullet timers than literal speedsters.

I won't post any "anti feats" as of now, I prefer it to be discussed with people in the comments. It's a very simple OP, what need to be done is discuss some feats, anti feats and calculations.
 
Seems reasonable for those feats related to Electro, but I'm pretty sure Spider-Man has plenty of feats Massively Hypersonic at least; not sure what happened to his ancient Low 7-C calculation from Naruto forums other than it for obvious reasons is bunk via our KE standards, but it was fine to use as a speed feat.
 
I'm currently going to focus on the Electro feats, and then deal with different feats later.

I think that's better because it makes things easier to understand and not to derail.
 
First off, I know Electro's lightning might fit all of our criteria, and because of that his lightning should travel at 440000 m/s.
Well something bigger to note is that Electro is that Modern Electro =/= Classic Electro.

What I mean is that in Amazing Spider-Man #613, Electro was attached to a machine and enhanced into Electro 2.0. The new version of Electro is the one with all of the lightning transformation and speed statements, not the old one.
 
Well something bigger to note is that Electro is that Modern Electro =/= Classic Electro.

What I mean is that in Amazing Spider-Man #613, Electro was attached to a machine and enhanced into Electro 2.0. The new version of Electro is the one with all of the lightning transformation and speed statements, not the old one.
That makes sense.
 
Well something bigger to note is that Electro is that Modern Electro =/= Classic Electro.

What I mean is that in Amazing Spider-Man #613, Electro was attached to a machine and enhanced into Electro 2.0. The new version of Electro is the one with all of the lightning transformation and speed statements, not the old one.
I think your comment is confusing, is modern Electro, aka post ASM #613 the one with lightning feats and statements or classic one?
 
, is modern Electro, aka post ASM #613 the one with lightning feats and statements or classic one?
Post-ASM #613 / Modern Electro is the one with all the lightning feats. Electro from before that point is just the one that can fire electricity and occasionally give himself an electric aura to move around.
 
Cool, nice to know that. Makes things easier. Basically all the calculated feats should be removed then. Though, I'm still against MHS+ street level characters. Anything before November 25, 2009, the date from ASM 613 released, should be disregarded or calculated again.
 
I obviously know Marvel Handbooks/Databooks have some inconsistent information regarding some Lifting Strength statistics, but it doesn't mean everything there is inconsistent and shouldn't be used. That'd be association fallacy. Some handbooks take information directly from the comics and just put there with a diffent wording.
I have to note that this is a topic for a different CRT, because we don’t accept anything from the handbooks at the moment.

Aside from that, I’m fine with removing the calcs from before Electro got amped to lightning speed.
 
Gathering feats? We currently use two feats to support 70% of the ratings, but they are not valid anymore
 
Once again bumping this. Lightning feats need to be removed and we need to discuss the ones I brought up.
 
I've also always felt MHS+ just breaks the context of a lot of Marvel stories, so I would be in favor of a downgrade. I admittedly can't support this with hard antifeats at the moment, though. Well, except for the obvious fact that there's a lot of characters that use guns.
 
I'll gather antifeats then. My keyboard just broke so it'll take some time. I'm smashing the spacebar right now.
 
Dunno, haven't been keeping up with Marvel threads and this is nowhere in the verse page (Honestly, it's one of the worst verse pages we have)
 
I've read nearly everything Daredevil related, so I'm gonna post some "antifeats" for the MHS+ rating about him. I want to say that I agree with @Armorchompy that street level being MHS+ heavily contradicts the context of the level they operate at, and most of them, even the fastest ones like Daredevil, Elektra, Iron Fist, etc, don't have any more MHS+ feats, be it by Electro or the obvious not literal "microseconds" statement. They mostly deal with bullets, even someone like Moon Knight that operate on a more mystical level doesn't have feats like this, it's always bullet time. I also want to say that Daredevil doesn't have any MHS+ feats after Frank Miller reivented the character.
We won't find THAT much of antifeats for someone like Daredevil. Characters like him are fast, super fast, not as fast as we rate them, but bullet timers. Rather than searching for antifeats, we should be looking for what's more consistent, and I can tell you that bullet timing is the most consistent feat. The fact that Daredevil, Elektra and most of street characters don't have any MHS+ feats since the 80s or 90s to now already tells us something. If yall want to scale Spider-Man to this speed, fine, just don't drag characters like the ones stated above with him, Spider-Man is not only faster than them but he is, canonically, a super-being with super-speed, while others aren't (With the exception of Moon Knight).
 
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I won't be posting anti feats for every Marvel character here, that's painful to do. Takes a lot of time and reading. You can read each one of their comic runs and see by yourselves that they don't move or have any MHS+ feats, they are consistently bullet timers. I did for Daredevil because I already have everything.

CONSISTENT and FEATS should be what we're looking at here, not anti feats.
 
I agree with finding a more consistent foundation and from what I've seen, he's usually depicted ******* with bullets like deflecting them, and lacks many feats that would convey he's intended to be like MHS+ or whatever, sometimes even needing to put in effort to do said feats.
It's very important an actual consistent throughline is found for comics given the multitude of dudes working on them, for example if Chip decided to give Batman like 30 FTL feats in the newest run, they'd have to be compared to the past 10+ years as well as what comes after and what he's generally doing, instead of just going "oh this happened one time, let's use this feat 100000x above what he usually deals or even struggles with". DD is no different, and arguably even worse given pretty sure he's been working on the same canon for quite some time.
i think spidey being deep into the mach range is ok tho
 
DD is no different, and arguably even worse given pretty sure he's been working on the same canon for quite some time.
Yeah, Chip works with both characters currently and his Daredevil is arguably the strongest. It's not everyday you see a superhero taking on a team with Bullseye, Bullet, Rhino, Stilt Man and Crossbones at the same time. And he's still a bullet timer, though a very good one.
 
He did use analytical precog to deal with those bullets. Not that I'm saying street tiers aren't relative to bullets, I just don't think that specific feat can be calced.
 
Kinda, he was predicting the whole fight to be honest. He couldn't have blocked all the bullets without speed though, most of them were shot at the same time and arrived at the same time too. He'd need speed to block them too.
 
I have like 20 or so feats for Daredevil and around 15 for Elektra. I can help calcing them.
 
I have to note that this is a topic for a different CRT, because we don’t accept anything from the handbooks at the moment.

Aside from that, I’m fine with removing the calcs from before Electro got amped to lightning speed.
I also share the same sentiments. This shouldn't apply to post-amp, period.
 
I’m fine with finding a more consistent rating and removing the calcs that treat Classic Electro’s attacks as lightning. If Classic Electro has a defined Attack Speed those feats might be worth recalculating.

Though I think Spider-Man could still be listed as considerably faster than the average Street tier due to that scan mentioning he’s swifter than non-enhanced humans.
 
Yeah I don't mind Spider-Man and Spider-People, just not "regular" humans being rated as fast as a lightning bolt. Anyway, I'll post the feats I have then we can find more.

Or create a thread for that once we finish here.
 
That's out of question considering they have little to no feats on this scale.

Anyway, does anyone have anything to say? I will gather all the feats I have with the proper reference and calculate them.
 
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