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Demigra vs Anti-Monitor

Catalyst, Dreaming Serpent. You're arguing from a standpoint that this site does not use. If you want to change something, please bring it up with staff or as a Content Revision/Questions and Answers thread.

If you want your standpoint to be the norm, you have to use the Content Revision or Question and Answers thread. We literally cannot accept your arguments because the site's rules says we can't. If Anti-Monitor has not displayed 4D Mindhax resistance, regardless of everything else, we cannot assume he does have it. Period. You want this changed, go make a Content Revision thread.
 
Basically users Catalyst and Dreaming Serpent are trying to argue with points that we cannot use here as it's not on their profiles at all. This is essentially the only thing that's keeping this thread alive.
 
It legit doesn't make sense. The scales between these two on a completely different level. Sure, they have a point in that we haven't seen AM get mindhaxxed but on the other hand this is overestimating Demigra's destructive capabilites and range of abilities. Saying that we havent seen the anti monitor affected by mindhax and therefore resists it is a no limits fallacy. Anti monitor in his first key is 4D only and demigra has proven to be able to affect 4D using his mindhax.

The anti monitor being 2-A doesnt change anything as he is on the same dimension as what demigra can mindhax, has no resistance to it and the fact that mindhax ignore durability.

The Anti-Monitor is a piece of the Overvoid made into a living being. Furthermore, one of the notable things about COIE Anti-Monitor is that his Anti-Matter wave struck all time simultaneously (specifically shown are the time periods where the Tuning Forks are set up). Like his brethren, while in the Multiverse, he is comparable to the New Gods who are beyond regular time and space Were not using his 1-A key. Anti monitors true form does not give his 4D state resistance to any hax that are not outerversal.

I've played Xenoverse, nothing implies Demigra's strong enough to hack into Zeno so why does it suddenly work on Anti Monitor? Zeno would only get resistance from this. The physical tier difference between anti monitor and demigra means nothing. Mind hax does not get nulled by somebodys physical ability unless they are straight up on a higher level of existance than those mindhax (which the anti monitor is not)

God Ki Schuck Ki. We have no idea how good Demigra's mindhaxes would work outside the Dragon Ball Universe canon. Next thing you know we're gonna start saying that the mindhaxx works on Nyarlathotep. This reminds me of that idea that Ganondorf can beat Hulk cause Hulk can't hold the Master Sword. Demigras mindhax would mindhax anybody that doesnt have resistance to it. How durable your physical body is does not change how your mind gets attacked. By your logic, all haxes in fiction would be ignored in vs debates because we dont know how they would work. The nyarlathotep example is a false equivilance. Nyarlathotep is outerversal. Anti monitor is 4D. Demigra has 4D mindhax. Anti monitor has no resistance. Hulk being unable to hold the master sword would not mean ganon can neg his durability. Thats another false equivilance.

So far these arguments are going completely against the wikis standards or just using stuff that doesnt exist in the profiles nor even in cannon. Unless you can come up with an actual reason for the anti monitor winning without going completely against his profile or using his 1-A key, i cant count them.

This is a stomp for demigra This is only a stomp if demigra is guarunteed to open up with mindhax from the very beginning. Being more likely to do is wouldnt make this a stomp. It would just be a win for demigra.
 
Zeno would only get resistance from this. The physical tier difference between anti monitor and demigra means nothing. Mind hax does not get nulled by somebodys physical ability unless they are straight up on a higher level of existance than those mindhax (which the anti monitor is not)

The Anti-Monitor. Not on a higher level of existence than Demigra's Dark Magic, even in his "within the Multiverse" incarnation. When his "within the Multiverse" incarnation scales to Darkseid. When being made from a piece of the Overvoid applies also to his "Within the Multiverse" incarnation, not just his true state. The Anti-Monitor within the Multiverse is still a being who exists outside normal space and time, since changes made to the Multiverse throughout its various Crises do not affect the Anti-Monitor.

As far as I am understanding this, you and every other poster claiming Demigra should win this is arguing on a basis that makes every other category the Anti-Monitor is superior in irrelevant, while focusing on an interpretation of his ability dependent on the "proof by example" fallacy. I.e. "Only those with Godly Ki are immune to Demigra's Dark Magic".

That's why the Ganon example was brought up earlier. Not due to "false equivalence", but because of the old "proof by example" fallacy claiming that Ganon can only be truly defeated by the Triforce, Master Sword or Silver Arrows (Screw Attack infamously pulled this in their Bowser vs. Ganon fight).

I do have some suspicions about the validity of 4D mindhax for Demigra, but I'll need confirmation first on why that's a thing in the first place.
 
Nobody ever said only those with God Ki could resist his mindhax. We said that because they have God ki they can, since God Ki grants a resistance to Mindhax and several other abilities. They don't resist because only god ki can resist it, they resist because they have Mind Resistance, something the Anti Monitor lacks. Furthermore, being a higher tier unless it's tier 1 does not grant you a get out of hax free card. Again throwing lore out explaining why he's at the tier he is does not in any way save him from getting Mindhaxxed

Also there's a thread already linked here talking about his mindhax.
 
If this whole 4D mindhax argument is about it affecting Fused Zamasu, I looked around and saw it implied that it affected Zamasu and Goku Black because they either used it on themselves, and/or allowed it to be used on themselves.

In other words, not done by Demigra himself. If that is actually the case, then applying 4D mindhax to Demigra shouldn't even be a thing.
 
Affecting a 4D Mind even if they're willing still means your Mindhax must have the ability to affect 4D beings.

A 4D Being willingly allowing a 3D Mindhax free reign doesn't mean the 3D Mindhax would affect the 4D Being. In order to affect the 4D being in any capacity, the Mindhax must be 4D as well.
 
Akreious. All I'm asking for is logic. If you can build a scenario in which the Anti Monitor can win other then "Mindhaxx" then I can roll my card up and say you got me. But there's no indication to me that this version of the Anti Monitor would lose. Definitely the neutered version of the Green Lantern show but mainline comic book version? Please.

Even using this sites logic, AM is 2-A and Demigra is 2-B.

Also Read The Post, did you include my vote yet? Do I have to illustrate another reason aside from more destructive feats?
 
"Akreious. All I'm asking for is logic."

Except the logic you're using right now is one that we literally cannot accept. If you do not agree with it, make a Content Revision or bring it up with the staff. We straight up cannot agree with you no matter our stance.

"If you can build a scenario in which the Anti Monitor can win other then "Mindhaxx" then I can roll my card up and say you got me."

Build a scenario where a character doesn't use the ability they use first thing in-character and is usually how he ends most fights against opponents if they don't resist it?

" But there's no indication to me that this version of the Anti Monitor would lose."

2-A Anti-Monitor who lacks 4-D Mindhax Resistance?

"Definitely the neutered version of the Green Lantern show but mainline comic book version? Please."

Your opinion has absolutely no bearing on the results of this match. Just because you think Comic Book Version of Anti-Monitor is uber powerful doesn't mean he gets things he never showed before.

"Even using this sites logic, AM is 2-A and Demigra is 2-B."

Mindhax is unrelated to AP.

"Also Read The Post, did you include my vote yet? Do I have to illustrate another reason aside from more destructive feats?"

Mindhax is unrelated to AP. You posting destructive feats does absolutely nothing and does not negate the reasoning for Demigra winning. Your vote operates on a basis that this site does not use. Until you actually prove that Anti-Monitor has 4D Mindhax Resistance, your reasoning for him winning is fundamentally faulty.
 
Dreaming Serpent said:
Well then why bother with this match up if it's going to be an echo chamber?
If my vote doesn't matter then why bother?
Click to expand...
I do not know why you bothered. You're using logic that's unaccepted on this site and then are complaining when we disregard your vote for reasoning this site does not accept.
 
Except you guys aren't using logic. You're using one assumption that has no bearing on the scale of how strong Anti Monitor is.

If you call that logic then there's no point in debating anymore. But this is a poor reason.

It may as well just be an "Inconclusive" considering how much we're leaving up to assumption.
 
"Except you guys aren't using logic. You're using one assumption that has no bearing on the scale of how strong Anti Monitor is."

I don't think you understand, you're the one making assumptions here. Demigra has showed 4-Dimensional Mind Manipulation. Anti-Monitor has only shown Mind-Hax Resistance on a 3-Dimensional level. 4-Dimensional > 3-Dimensional. Therefore, Demigra can mindhax Anti-Monitor. Unless Anti-Monitor has shown it before, we cannot assume he can resist Demigra.

"If you call that logic then there's no point in debating anymore. But this is a poor reason."

You have yet to actually prove Anti-Monitor can resist Demigra's Mindhax besides posting AP feats and such, which Mindhax completely ignores.

"It may as well just be an "Inconclusive" considering how much we're leaving up to assumption."

If you think it's an inconclusive, state your reasoning. In what scenario is it a 50/50 for both Demigra and Anti-Monitor to win against eachother.
 
I'll extend an olive branch here, the closest we can see to the 2-A version of the Anti Monitor being "used" is when after he died, Nekron used him as a battery to power the entire Black Lantern Battery.

The issue with that is that he had to be killed first in order for that to work.

So theoritically speaking, how 'good' would this mindhax even be? Would it work on a Tier 1 too?
 
"I'll extend an olive branch here, the closest we can see to the 2-A version of the Anti Monitor being "used" is when after he died, Nekron used him as a battery to power the entire Black Lantern Battery."

Or we can use the information that's present in his 2-A key of his profile?

"So theoritically speaking, how 'good' would this mindhax even be? Would it work on a Tier 1 too?"

Demigra's? It'd work on anyone without 4-Dimensional Mind Hax Resistance. Simple as that. It would not work on a Tier 1 because a Tier 1 being is qualitavely superior to any Tier 2.
 
Well, the votes for anti monitor cant really be counted and are kind of debunked. But hold on a second (Ignore reply to 15. Im just bad at quoting)

DistinctiveFeature said:
Also possession is a form of mind manipulation by the virtue it is essentially taking over the mind and soul. Deadman could possess the Gree and I hope you understand the Green is higher-dimensional.

However he could not possess the Anti-Monitor.
Click to expand...
The debunk to this was that the anti monitors profile covered final crisis only. Wouldnt this mean that the anti monitor should have 5D mindhax resistance added therefore making this a stomp for anti monitor now?
 
So not only does AM have the AP advantage, but he can also resist mind hax from someone who can possess 5-D higher dimensional things? Yeah I switch my vote
 
That's what I thought. Demigra's possession isn't at Deadman's level surprisingly. Deadman could possess abstract concepts. As far as I know, Demigra has never displayed that level of mind control.
 
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