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Im pretty sure that just gives heroes beerus 4D mindhax resistance
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Demigra vs Anti-Monitor
- Thread starter Read_this_post
- Start date
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The Anti-Monitor destroyed an infinite number of Universes down to five, he absorbed power from the Antimatter Universe to travel back in time to before Creation and was able to take energy from the heroes who assembled to confront him there, IIRC.ZeroTC01 said:
As for why accessing the Sixth Dimension is significant, it is beyond Mxyzptlk's Fifth Dimension, and his brother, the World Forger, was able to create a new, future iteration of the Multiverse within it and capable of replacing the current Multiverse with it.
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I dont think accessing higher dimensions in dc is ever treat as a feat at all. But that is for a completely different revision and doesnt give him resistance unless you believe he is low 1-C (in which case, make a revision).
The first paragraph does prove an infinite ap advantage yes, but it does not sheild anti montior from mindhax without resistance.
The first paragraph does prove an infinite ap advantage yes, but it does not sheild anti montior from mindhax without resistance.
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Mxyzptlk was very specific. Before the Source Wall broke, the Anti-Monitor was one of only four beings who could ever access the Sixth Dimension; it took most of Mxyzptlk's power to create an entrance for the Justice League to use after the Source Wall broke.
Again, Demigra couldn't control Beerus, and the current tierings of the characters put Anti-Monitor above Demigra (not taking into account how his "Darkseid War" self possessed the Anti-Life Equation).
Again, Demigra couldn't control Beerus, and the current tierings of the characters put Anti-Monitor above Demigra (not taking into account how his "Darkseid War" self possessed the Anti-Life Equation).
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Yes, I'm aware of the infinite gap in power, but it's already been discussed that Anti-Monitor's 2-A rating still shouldn't protect him from Demigra's Mindhax. As for accessing the Sixth Dimension, basically what @Read this post said. As their profiles currently stand, Demigra should take this.
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Again, make a revision to get that accepted. You're implying Low 1-C here, which'd make this thread a stomp.Catalyst75 said:
Yes, Demigra couldn't control Beerus, but all that indicates is that Beerus resists 4-D Mindhax, not that Demigra's is 3-D. His is equal to or stronger than Mindhax that could control Infinite Zamasu, a 4-D being.
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So, even though it was stated as such in the comics that the Anti-Monitor is one of only four beings with natural access to the Sixth Dimension, on top of the statement that he and his brothers can reform there whenever they were destroyed, it somehow doesn't count if it's not on the site here?
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Make a content revision
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If this is First Crisis Anti-Monitor then Demigra takes this via mindhax.
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Anti-Monitor via his true state.
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That's not the key we are using.
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Still choosing Anti Monitor via going to hand with a powered up Spectre and a whole slew of other superheroes, supervillains, and magic users on the side.
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Demigra FRA
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If Demigra opens with mindhax this is kinda a stomp
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Demigra was beat by 2 dudes. Two powerful dudes but 2 dudes.
https://youtu.be/peLqvsComWI?t=940
Meanwhile Anti Monitor had to deal with a multitude of characters at once while fighting the embodiement of God's Wrath. And it still wasn't enough.
Mindhaxing has had little to no indication of an effect on Anti Monitor. And now that it's shown that he's beyond the 5th Dimensional Imps reality warping and beyond time manipulation what does Demigra even do?
https://youtu.be/peLqvsComWI?t=940
Meanwhile Anti Monitor had to deal with a multitude of characters at once while fighting the embodiement of God's Wrath. And it still wasn't enough.
Mindhaxing has had little to no indication of an effect on Anti Monitor. And now that it's shown that he's beyond the 5th Dimensional Imps reality warping and beyond time manipulation what does Demigra even do?
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Anti Monitor is still 4-D. This key is not beyond the 5th Dimensional imps
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"Demigra was beat by 2 dudes. Two powerful dudes but 2 dudes.
https://youtu.be/peLqvsComWI?t=940
Meanwhile Anti Monitor had to deal with a multitude of characters at once while fighting the embodiement of God's Wrath. And it still wasn't enough. "
None of this really matters since Demigra's first action is to try and Mindhax; something these 2 powerful dudes resist.
"Mindhaxing has had little to no indication of an effect on Anti Monitor."
As he lacks feats of Mindhax that operates on the 4D level, this means nothing since Demigra's mindhax is an entire literal dimension above what Anti-Monitor has fought off.
"And now that it's shown that he's beyond the 5th Dimensional Imps reality warping and beyond time manipulation what does Demigra even do?"
None of this indicates Mindhax Resistance.
https://youtu.be/peLqvsComWI?t=940
Meanwhile Anti Monitor had to deal with a multitude of characters at once while fighting the embodiement of God's Wrath. And it still wasn't enough. "
None of this really matters since Demigra's first action is to try and Mindhax; something these 2 powerful dudes resist.
"Mindhaxing has had little to no indication of an effect on Anti Monitor."
As he lacks feats of Mindhax that operates on the 4D level, this means nothing since Demigra's mindhax is an entire literal dimension above what Anti-Monitor has fought off.
"And now that it's shown that he's beyond the 5th Dimensional Imps reality warping and beyond time manipulation what does Demigra even do?"
None of this indicates Mindhax Resistance.
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But it does indicate that Anti-Monitor is inherently superior to Demigra not just by an infinite amount, but shouldn't even be a being Demigra could affect.
Your reliance upon Anti-Monitor "not having mind-hax resistance" speaks to a no-limits fallacy for Demigra's ability despite there being examples where his power couldn't work at all. After all, Demigra's ability couldn't affect Beerus normally because he was a God of Destruction with the power to destroy a Universe
Meanwhile, the Anti-Monitor was made from a piece of the Overvoid, and destroyed an infinite number of Universes in his debut.
Looking it up, I found that it was stated Demigra's Dark Magic could only affect those weaker than he is, and can't affect those with Godly Ki in-series.
Not only is the Anti-Monitor undeniably superior in power to Demigra, the Anti-Monitor's physiology and nature put him well beyond the scope of what Demigra's Dark Magic should be able to affect.
Your reliance upon Anti-Monitor "not having mind-hax resistance" speaks to a no-limits fallacy for Demigra's ability despite there being examples where his power couldn't work at all. After all, Demigra's ability couldn't affect Beerus normally because he was a God of Destruction with the power to destroy a Universe
Meanwhile, the Anti-Monitor was made from a piece of the Overvoid, and destroyed an infinite number of Universes in his debut.
Looking it up, I found that it was stated Demigra's Dark Magic could only affect those weaker than he is, and can't affect those with Godly Ki in-series.
Not only is the Anti-Monitor undeniably superior in power to Demigra, the Anti-Monitor's physiology and nature put him well beyond the scope of what Demigra's Dark Magic should be able to affect.
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Well the Anti Monitor is now 1-A in his true form so I think Demigra couldn't affect him with his mind hax assuming both were at full power
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Consider the amount of Mindhackers that exist in the DC Multiverse and remember how seemingly none of them could affect the Anti Monitor once. You expect me to believe in a reality as vast as DC Comics, no one has attempted to mindwarp the Anti Monitor once? Even Darkseid lost to a significantly weakened Anti-Monitor and Darkseid is a master in mind manipualtion.
So unless the writers just never bothered seeing what happens when AM is mind warped (Which is entirely possible) I'm going to assume it does jack all. Just like how throwing a redbull at an angry bear doesn't do anything to weaken the bears ferocity and strength. So no, Demigra is outmatched here as far as I'm concerned. Vote goes to AM.
So unless the writers just never bothered seeing what happens when AM is mind warped (Which is entirely possible) I'm going to assume it does jack all. Just like how throwing a redbull at an angry bear doesn't do anything to weaken the bears ferocity and strength. So no, Demigra is outmatched here as far as I'm concerned. Vote goes to AM.
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So this is just gonna ignore this is using the 2-A key on favor of "true form gg"? I'm sorry but that's not a argument.
1st Anti-Monitor isn't even in his True Form here, and on this wiki we don't let characters go into other keys unless stated by the op. So True Form GG is already out the window.
Second, Anti Monitor doesn't have not a lick of resistance to mind manip and Demigra has Mindhax that can not only affect 4-D beings but people with God Ki who are inherently resistant (His Mindhax > Daburas who could effect all forms of Zamasu.) And can only effect those weaker than him? The sole it didn't work on Goku and Beerus was because they had God Ki, where did you pull this from?
The votes for Anti Monitor essentially ignore our system and thus should be considered invalid.
1st Anti-Monitor isn't even in his True Form here, and on this wiki we don't let characters go into other keys unless stated by the op. So True Form GG is already out the window.
Second, Anti Monitor doesn't have not a lick of resistance to mind manip and Demigra has Mindhax that can not only affect 4-D beings but people with God Ki who are inherently resistant (His Mindhax > Daburas who could effect all forms of Zamasu.) And can only effect those weaker than him? The sole it didn't work on Goku and Beerus was because they had God Ki, where did you pull this from?
The votes for Anti Monitor essentially ignore our system and thus should be considered invalid.
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"But it does indicate that Anti-Monitor is inherently superior to Demigra not just by an infinite amount, but shouldn't even be a being Demigra could affect."
Not by how Mindhax works in this site plus, this is ignoring the discussion already inside this thread.
"Your reliance upon Anti-Monitor "not having mind-hax resistance" speaks to a no-limits fallacy for Demigra's ability despite there being examples where his power couldn't work at all. After all, Demigra's ability couldn't affect Beerus normally because he was a God of Destruction with the power to destroy a Universe"
That's not how this works. Beerus resisting Demigra's Mindhax is unrelated to AP; you've got it backwards. Because Beerus resisted Demigra's 4D mindhax, he himself has 4-Dimensional Mindhax resistance. If a 10-C was able to resist a 4D Mindhax, then they would get a similar resistance. It's completely irrelevant to AP.
Your way of doing things would be giving Anti-Monitor a resistance/power he never displayed (Higher Dimensional Mind Hax Resistance).
"Meanwhile, the Anti-Monitor was made from a piece of the Overvoid, and destroyed an infinite number of Universes in his debut."
Irrelevant to Mind Hax Resistance.
"Looking it up, I found that it was stated Demigra's Dark Magic could only affect those weaker than he is, and can't affect those with Godly Ki in-series. "
Yeaaaaah, good luck citing those. Those "Sources" has been debunked more than once on this site already. And not being able to affect Godly Ki means that Godly Ki lets you resist 4D Mindhax; it doesn't mean the mindhax is weak. Again, AP and Resistance is unrelated to eachother.
"Not only is the Anti-Monitor undeniably superior in power to Demigra, the Anti-Monitor's physiology and nature put him well beyond the scope of what Demigra's Dark Magic should be able to affect."
We already talked about this in this very thread if you'd just scroll up; that's not how this works. Unless you can prove Anti-Monitor has Mind Hax Resistance on the 4-Dimensional Level, it doesn't mean anything if he's 2-A or 10-C.
"Well the Anti Monitor is now 1-A in his true form so I think Demigra couldn't affect him with his mind hax assuming both were at full power"
We're not using 1-A Anti-Monitor.
"Consider the amount of Mindhackers that exist in the DC Multiverse and remember how seemingly none of them could affect the Anti Monitor once."
Again, means nothing unless their mindhax has been displayed to operate on the 4th Dimension.
"You expect me to believe in a reality as vast as DC Comics, no one has attempted to mindwarp the Anti Monitor once?"
No, I expect you to prove to me that he's able to resist Mindhax that are able to screw with 4-Dimensional beings.
"Even Darkseid lost to a significantly weakened Anti-Monitor and Darkseid is a master in mind manipualtion. "
Which again, means nothing if they never showed Mindhax on the same level as Demigra.
"So unless the writers just never bothered seeing what happens when AM is mind warped (Which is entirely possible) I'm going to assume it does jack all."
You have not proved that Anti-Monitor has the feats to resist Demigra's Mindhax. You have not proved Darkseid's mindhax is on the level of Demigra. You have yet to prove any mindhax in DC is on the level of Demigra. All you said in your posts were "Oh he fought many people and many mindhaxxers so he should resist Demigra" which isn't how VsBattle does things.
"Just like how throwing a redbull at an angry bear doesn't do anything to weaken the bears ferocity and strength."
Completely irrelevant to how Mindhax works since it does not use brute force at all, but besides the point.
"So no, Demigra is outmatched here as far as I'm concerned. Vote goes to AM."
Literally all your points hinges on us just believing Anti-Monitor has faced somebody like Demigra without the feats to prove it. We cannot assume Anti-Monitor has mind hax resistance an entire dimensional level above what he has shown; if we did then a lot of verses are due for an Upgrade.
Not by how Mindhax works in this site plus, this is ignoring the discussion already inside this thread.
"Your reliance upon Anti-Monitor "not having mind-hax resistance" speaks to a no-limits fallacy for Demigra's ability despite there being examples where his power couldn't work at all. After all, Demigra's ability couldn't affect Beerus normally because he was a God of Destruction with the power to destroy a Universe"
That's not how this works. Beerus resisting Demigra's Mindhax is unrelated to AP; you've got it backwards. Because Beerus resisted Demigra's 4D mindhax, he himself has 4-Dimensional Mindhax resistance. If a 10-C was able to resist a 4D Mindhax, then they would get a similar resistance. It's completely irrelevant to AP.
Your way of doing things would be giving Anti-Monitor a resistance/power he never displayed (Higher Dimensional Mind Hax Resistance).
"Meanwhile, the Anti-Monitor was made from a piece of the Overvoid, and destroyed an infinite number of Universes in his debut."
Irrelevant to Mind Hax Resistance.
"Looking it up, I found that it was stated Demigra's Dark Magic could only affect those weaker than he is, and can't affect those with Godly Ki in-series. "
Yeaaaaah, good luck citing those. Those "Sources" has been debunked more than once on this site already. And not being able to affect Godly Ki means that Godly Ki lets you resist 4D Mindhax; it doesn't mean the mindhax is weak. Again, AP and Resistance is unrelated to eachother.
"Not only is the Anti-Monitor undeniably superior in power to Demigra, the Anti-Monitor's physiology and nature put him well beyond the scope of what Demigra's Dark Magic should be able to affect."
We already talked about this in this very thread if you'd just scroll up; that's not how this works. Unless you can prove Anti-Monitor has Mind Hax Resistance on the 4-Dimensional Level, it doesn't mean anything if he's 2-A or 10-C.
"Well the Anti Monitor is now 1-A in his true form so I think Demigra couldn't affect him with his mind hax assuming both were at full power"
We're not using 1-A Anti-Monitor.
"Consider the amount of Mindhackers that exist in the DC Multiverse and remember how seemingly none of them could affect the Anti Monitor once."
Again, means nothing unless their mindhax has been displayed to operate on the 4th Dimension.
"You expect me to believe in a reality as vast as DC Comics, no one has attempted to mindwarp the Anti Monitor once?"
No, I expect you to prove to me that he's able to resist Mindhax that are able to screw with 4-Dimensional beings.
"Even Darkseid lost to a significantly weakened Anti-Monitor and Darkseid is a master in mind manipualtion. "
Which again, means nothing if they never showed Mindhax on the same level as Demigra.
"So unless the writers just never bothered seeing what happens when AM is mind warped (Which is entirely possible) I'm going to assume it does jack all."
You have not proved that Anti-Monitor has the feats to resist Demigra's Mindhax. You have not proved Darkseid's mindhax is on the level of Demigra. You have yet to prove any mindhax in DC is on the level of Demigra. All you said in your posts were "Oh he fought many people and many mindhaxxers so he should resist Demigra" which isn't how VsBattle does things.
"Just like how throwing a redbull at an angry bear doesn't do anything to weaken the bears ferocity and strength."
Completely irrelevant to how Mindhax works since it does not use brute force at all, but besides the point.
"So no, Demigra is outmatched here as far as I'm concerned. Vote goes to AM."
Literally all your points hinges on us just believing Anti-Monitor has faced somebody like Demigra without the feats to prove it. We cannot assume Anti-Monitor has mind hax resistance an entire dimensional level above what he has shown; if we did then a lot of verses are due for an Upgrade.
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This a stomp either way...
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No, not really.EmperorDoom25 said:
If Demigra does anything other than Mindhax, he sort of dies. Anti-Monitor has many avenues to win, be it sending Demigra to the Antimatter Universe (where Demigra's powers are nullified as this AntiMatter Dimension is what fueled Anti-Monitor's 2-A feat), burn at Demigra's Soul to get rid of him (So he can indeed actually kill Demigra if Demigra allowed), or really just slapping the Multiverse so hard that everything goes along with Demigra.
Problem is Demigra does start with Mindhax, which is why he's favoured in this discussion.
A stomp is when one side has no chance of winning, which Anti-Monitor does have a chance. A small chance, but still a chance. If this were a stomp then every Star Wars match added for "Mindhax" should be removed.
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I mean, the reason to why this is a stomp is because he indeed starts with Mindhax
As an example, 99% of Star Wars matches were removed because of that
As an example, 99% of Star Wars matches were removed because of that
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@Akreious
But....a lot of Star Wars matches were indeed removed because of Mindhax
But....a lot of Star Wars matches were indeed removed because of Mindhax
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@Akreious
I guess I should have also pointed out that, within the story of Xenoverse, characters were able to mentally resist Demigra's Dark Magic even if their physical bodies were still being controlled. It's not at all a perfect mind manipulation ability, and the Anti-Monitor is not only leagues above those it has affected, but also those it couldn't affect.
I guess I should have also pointed out that, within the story of Xenoverse, characters were able to mentally resist Demigra's Dark Magic even if their physical bodies were still being controlled. It's not at all a perfect mind manipulation ability, and the Anti-Monitor is not only leagues above those it has affected, but also those it couldn't affect.
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"I guess I should have also pointed out that, within the story of Xenoverse, characters were able to mentally resist Demigra's Dark Magic even if their physical bodies were still being controlled."
Then they didn't resist it did they? If their bodies were still being controlled, their attempted resistance was futile. The Mindhax's purpose was to get control of their bodies and their powers; Demigra couldn't have cared less if they were mindless puppets or if they were full functioning human beings forced against their will.
"It's not at all a perfect mind manipulation ability, and the Anti-Monitor is not only leagues above those it has affected, but also those it couldn't affect."
Again, AP has no relevance to how potent the Hax is. 10-B or 2-A, doesn't matter.
Then they didn't resist it did they? If their bodies were still being controlled, their attempted resistance was futile. The Mindhax's purpose was to get control of their bodies and their powers; Demigra couldn't have cared less if they were mindless puppets or if they were full functioning human beings forced against their will.
"It's not at all a perfect mind manipulation ability, and the Anti-Monitor is not only leagues above those it has affected, but also those it couldn't affect."
Again, AP has no relevance to how potent the Hax is. 10-B or 2-A, doesn't matter.
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I'm just not sure why Goku wasn't affected by mixhax and we're implying that something like the Anti-Monitor can be effected by it. Anti-Monitor is on a way higher level then something like Beerus.
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I don't get it, either. It's giving me flashbacks to "Jedi mindhax wins" (and, apparently, that was an issue here on Vs Battles, too).Dreaming Serpent said:
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It legit doesn't make sense. The scales between these two on a completely different level. Sure, they have a point in that we haven't seen AM get mindhaxxed but on the other hand this is overestimating Demigra's destructive capabilites and range of abilities.
I've played Xenoverse, nothing implies Demigra's strong enough to hack into Zeno so why does it suddenly work on Anti Monitor?
I've played Xenoverse, nothing implies Demigra's strong enough to hack into Zeno so why does it suddenly work on Anti Monitor?
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Because Goku has God Ki. And the Anti Monitor being 2-A doesn't really matter. So long as he does not have Mind Resistance in this key and he's 4-D, Demigra mindhaxes.Dreaming Serpent said:
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God Ki Schuck Ki. We have no idea how good Demigra's mindhaxes would work outside the Dragon Ball Universe canon. Next thing you know we're gonna start saying that the mindhaxx works on Nyarlathotep. This reminds me of that idea that Ganondorf can beat Hulk cause Hulk can't hold the Master Sword.
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The Anti-Monitor is a piece of the Overvoid made into a living being. Furthermore, one of the notable things about COIE Anti-Monitor is that his Anti-Matter wave struck all time simultaneously (specifically shown are the time periods where the Tuning Forks are set up). Like his brethren, while in the Multiverse, he is comparable to the New Gods who are beyond regular time and space.Hst master said:
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>Looks at tiersDreaming Serpent said:
But...Ganon can beat the Hulk
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@Catalyst
And this isn't Tier 1 Anti Monitor. This is 2-A. Throwing a bunch of lore my way that isn't even relevant, isn't going to change that he has no resistance.
@Dreaming
God Ki Schuck Ki. We have no idea how good Demigra's mindhaxes would work outside the Dragon Ball Universe canon. Next thing you know we're gonna start saying that the mindhaxx works on Nyarlathotep. This reminds me of that idea that Ganondorf can beat Hulk cause Hulk can't hold the Master Sword.
You could say that for literally every hax on this site. "We don't know how ___ hax would outside ___ Universe Canon". That's not an argument, otherwise all hax would essentially be useless unless it's inverse matches. And depends on which Nyarlathotep and whether he has Mind Resistance or not. Cuz the Anti-Monitor sure don't. And idk anything about Zelda so I can't speak about that but apparently Ganondorf is a higher tier than Hulk with the completed triforce.
And this isn't Tier 1 Anti Monitor. This is 2-A. Throwing a bunch of lore my way that isn't even relevant, isn't going to change that he has no resistance.
@Dreaming
God Ki Schuck Ki. We have no idea how good Demigra's mindhaxes would work outside the Dragon Ball Universe canon. Next thing you know we're gonna start saying that the mindhaxx works on Nyarlathotep. This reminds me of that idea that Ganondorf can beat Hulk cause Hulk can't hold the Master Sword.
You could say that for literally every hax on this site. "We don't know how ___ hax would outside ___ Universe Canon". That's not an argument, otherwise all hax would essentially be useless unless it's inverse matches. And depends on which Nyarlathotep and whether he has Mind Resistance or not. Cuz the Anti-Monitor sure don't. And idk anything about Zelda so I can't speak about that but apparently Ganondorf is a higher tier than Hulk with the completed triforce.
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