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Deltarune Chapter 2 discussion!
- Thread starter ShockingPsychic
- Start date
GodlyCharmander
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I don't think Chara is controlling Kris, but rather, the Knight. You CAN say Kris is the Knight, which would fit both our beliefs, but let's say they're different characters for argument sake.
Knight also uses a knife, Chara's main weapon, to create Dark Worlds, the Knight is also described in red text, just like Chara's lines.
Queen describes the Knight as someone who put their will... and their Determination into their blade before creating the dark world
Knight also uses a knife, Chara's main weapon, to create Dark Worlds, the Knight is also described in red text, just like Chara's lines.
Queen describes the Knight as someone who put their will... and their Determination into their blade before creating the dark world
ShockingPsychic
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- Thread starter
- #163
I have a new profile ready. This character isn't effected by any of the revisions going on atm, so it should be fine to post.
Eden_Warlock99
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He should also have Healing with Pipis
DimeUhDozen
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Noted.
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I recall something about Susie implying that Magic doesn't exist in the Light World, can someone say where she did please?
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I don't remember that. And I feel like I'd remember something that major.
But it could be possible. Deltarune is apart of the Undertale series, but it's still a different universe. And I find it peculiar that Berdly doesn't turn to dust when you go back to the Light World after killing him in Snowgrave.
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Inb4 the Snowgrave Route is a troll, all of them are alive and Kris was actually just trying to help Noelle but in a forceful way.
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Also because the SOULs for Susie, Kris and Ralsei are the same despite they're of different races each.
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HAVE we ever seen their SOULs?
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That's never been shown or stated. Interestingly, Lightner's do all seem to possess Determination based on Chapter 2, but Susie and Ralsei have never been stated to have had the same soul as Kris to my knowledge, although the Red Soul blatantly isn't Kris's anyways. And if you're gonna bring up Susie Vs. Lancer, I've mentioned already in this thread that the Red Soul comes out from the upper right part of the screen, where Kris is, something Toby deliberately mentioned in the livestream.
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All of them are red, so.
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What do you mean by "Uh?"? And again, it was never stated or shown. Unless you can actually show a scan.
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Implications are a thing. You have to prove a negative, you know.
DimeUhDozen
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ShockingPsychic
He/Him- 3,326
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- Thread starter
- #177
They all use Kris' Soul, not their own. We haven't seen Susie or Ralsei's soul.
Lou_change
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Then how does it hurt the others.
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The enemies "target" them; We see them be designated as targets when attacks start.
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Can someone explain then why Susie was red then?
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Presuming this is true, then that isn't Susie's SOUL. It's Kris's. (Or whoever's it is that the SOUL that we use with Kris & company is associated with.)
Plus, the SOUL being apart from Kris makes sense. In Chapter 1, when Ralsei asks Kris if they wonder how Susie is doing, that's when the focus shifts to Susie, & when you make dialogue choices (With your selection being denoted by which option the SOUL is hovering over.), Susie thinks she's hearing Kris.
& in Chapter 2, if you're on the "Weird Route" (I've heard that that's the official name, but I dunno if it's true.), Ralsei also tries to ask Kris if they wonder how Susie is doing, but no transition happens, unlike in the "Pacifist" Route, & Ralsei seems unnerved. Kris also almost never speaks, so it would seem Ralsei is somehow aware of when the focus is shifted, be that of Kris's mind or the SOUL's; The point is, the SOUL's focus can go somewhere else.
....But for some reason, it chooses not to focus on Susie & Noelle on the "Weird" Route. No clue why. Bitter about rejection by Noelle after it tried to be so possessive? Toby Fox being Passive-Aggressive & wanting the suffering of people who think playing a way he doesn't like is okay?
Similarly, at the end of the Hospital Scene in Chapter 2 in Hometown, there's dialogue outside Rudolph's room where Noelle is thinking to herself in brackets, seemingly, yet the SOUL can respond with dialogue options, showing it's aware of what characters are thinking, as long as it's dialogue.
& if Kris goes DOWN in the "Weird Route" battle with Berdly, Noelle doesn't stop being in her trance; She states she can still hear Kris's voice. & similarly, the dialogue against "Weird Route" Spamton that gets Noelle to come & freeze his fanny "You whispered her name"; The other calls for help were with Kris's voice, & didn't reach friends, but Noelle came. Not to mention that prior to that fight, Queen implies Noelle isn't in good condition, supported by Noelle leaving at the end of "Weird Route" Berdly by saying she doesn't feel too good.
It's not entirely clear in what way she wasn't feeling good, & what made the Queen think she wasn't fit for use in her plans -She states as much, IIRC- but Noelle wasn't.
All this considered, the SOUL can definitely go places that Kris isn't, notice dialogue (spoken or not!) & seemingly project a voice, & it's canonical that it doesn't need Kris up (As opposed to DOWN.) to keep commanding. Though, this could just be a part of the "Trance" Noelle is in with the Thorn Ring on with other instances of the party listening to the SOUL being game mechanics.
To me, it makes total sense that the SOUL that's normally in Kris's body shows up for Susie's fight.
Why it would is questionable, but it almost certainly is; Toby Fox is alleged to have given evidence as such for it himself, & the SOUL seems to have the capabilities.
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Well, it wasn't much my point. What I was purposing was to find something hinting that magic doesn't exist in the Light World as another evidence of Monsters and Humans not having that immense gap they have in UT.
ShockingPsychic
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- Thread starter
- #183
The soul used in Susie Vs. Lancer is Kris', the soul comes from the top right of the screen, where Kris' cell was. This was confirmed in the 6th Anniversary stream.
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Just to be sure, anyone have footage of this claim? If we end up needing to cite this, we should probably have proof, of course.
& considering Chapter 2 took almost 3 years after Chapter 1, I imagine we need to cite it, because evidence to the contrary that we might expect from other chapters could take a while.
ShockingPsychic
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What needs to be proved is that all their souls are red. Not the other way around when it's never been shown.
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Yes, that's all previously mentioned evidence pointing to what I've already said in this thread. It's not Kris's soul, it's the players soul. It's barely even a theory at most by now.
As far as we know, Susie and likely Ralsei still have standard white Monster souls. (Also, Monster souls aren't actually flipped upside down I think, I'm pretty sure it's just cause their facing the opposite direction from your soul in battle, and because it's a 2D game, it appears upside down)
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You've already seen it by now, but yeah Toby specifically mentioned it, although it was already in the game, just something that most people missed because of the intensity of the scene.
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Oh, you also have Spamton himself saying that he's never seen a soul like Kris's before, implying that the "Determination" soul as people have dubbed it is special among others, maybe even special among Lightner's...
Which isn't surprising, because it's not the soul of an in-universe character.
Which isn't surprising, because it's not the soul of an in-universe character.
GodlyCharmander
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"You have to prove a negative, you know"
How does that work?
So all claims are true unless they're debunked?
Well, believe it or not, I can actually destroy this planet if I wanted to.
^This is a very banalized example, but one nonetheless
How does that work?
So all claims are true unless they're debunked?
Well, believe it or not, I can actually destroy this planet if I wanted to.
^This is a very banalized example, but one nonetheless
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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Apparently every lightner has Determination.Oh, you also have Spamton himself saying that he's never seen a soul like Kris's before, implying that the "Determination" soul as people have dubbed it is special among others, maybe even special among Lightner's...
Which isn't surprising, because it's not the soul of an in-universe character.
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Yep.
Btw Annoying Dog is omnipotent because he's Toby Fox. You can't prove me wrong because there's nothing implying otherwise and no one scales to or above him, so it's true.
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Yeah that was a neat detail. And we know Monster's can in fact get Determination through natural methods (Undyne). But it's interesting that Susie's body doesn't melt like normal Monster's should, and then you have Ralsei who is likely just Asriel from the looks of it. But I guess that'd be apart of what makes them special.
Still, no reason to think they also have the red soul of the player.
Lou_change
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I think that warrants someone getting damage transfer
Also what evidence actually shows the player is the soul the player could just not physically exist in deltarune and if it was then Kris isn't even a mind the body has.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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Yep.
Btw Annoying Dog is omnipotent because he's Toby Fox. You can't prove me wrong because there's nothing implying otherwise and no one scales to or above him, so it's true.
GodlyCharmander
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Yeah, maybe living amongst humans made them more physical than magical. Susie has very low magic and very high attack, unlike most monsters.
Any SOUL regardless of color has determination. For some reason the fandom believes only the Red SOUL does, lmao
Lou_change
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GodlyCharmander
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Kris' SOUL also power up their allies.
That's the whole shtick of the Snowgrave route, ain't it?
Lou_change
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Is this actually proven, Kris had the knowledge that she thought it was a dream and this world is separate from the world he seemingly cared about why wouldn't he do it.
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Well, maybe Kris didn't hear it, but some kind of voice responded to Noelle's thoughts. Though, does Noelle ask herself if she asked that out loud?
Also, why wouldn't he do what?
