DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

[Imaginym]

They use this weakness to beat it. But they still can deal some damage to outer shield without Soul Powers. Their damage is (practically) nullified only when Titan uses wings for defending itself. Nature of said wings is interesting, Black Shard doesn't deal more damage to it. So it's wings should at least have something other than darkness.
Scaling Jackenstein to Titan is silly. Main bosses can be assumed somewhat equal to Fun Gang, based purely of their status. All other enemies scale to Fun Gang, only if there are lore/cutscene showing them as formidable enemies to them(on top of my head only secret bosses have them). Jackenstein doesn't have neither of it. Heck, only reason he can fight us, is total lack of light, and our inability to attack him. Once light returns, fight is over.

No offense meant, but I wish you hadn't omitted the C. for "This is Option C. that I'm proposing" from your quoting of this part of a post of mine.

Anyway, FWIW, Jackenstein does feature the SOUL being constantly luminous, but not it shining its power on the party. The Delta Warriors always missing Jackenstein, but the SOUL does seemingly act to contrbute more in deep darkness.

Btw, doesn't anybody know why @Edutyn is not posting or commenting for almost a week. They were pretty active before, and we need them to fix their mistakes in their calc(mostly volume and mass of statue). If anyone is interested, I can make compile two of their most important calcs(that have errors) and fix them. Although, I feel like it's somewhat unethical(since most of the work had already been done by them).

I am also interested in this.

 

[Imaginym]

On the topic of this, I've seen a video of a scene where apparently Susie takes Tenna from outside Toriel's home to school, in case the option to take him there when entering Castle Town wasn't used. In said scene where Susie takes Tenna from in the rain to the Castle Town, she mentions later that he was shivering & sneezing, suggesting that's possible for a Darkner like him.

 

[Qurbonboev]

I mean we are still scaling the Titan to GIGA Queen. That's still Low 7-C.

If calc group accepts that sound waves in Sound of Justice fight indeed were propagating on the floor(not the air), Old Man Statue would get AP feat just little bit shorter of Low 7-C(something like 900 tonnes, if we fix the errors). And Fun Gang themselves would get(through Kris) AP feat of around 110-120 tonnes(lower end of 8-A). I think it would be consistent with Fun Gang having hard time with damaging Titan with shield on, but still making some damage.
I am open to idea that Fun Gang from Chapter N+1 can be massively stronger and faster than Fun Gang from Chapter N. Just don't see any lore reason to think that's impossible.

 

[Qurbonboev]

On the topic of this, I've seen a video of a scene where apparently Susie takes Tenna from outside Toriel's home to school, in case the option to take him there when entering Castle Town wasn't used. In said scene where Susie takes Tenna from in the rain to the Castle Town, she mentions later that he was shivering & sneezing, suggesting that's possible for a Darkner like him.

I think that Dark World does always exist in some way or another. We had dialogues about how life was before Knight in Chapter 1-2, Spamton whole deal(he climbed onto highest mountains of fame, and fell spectacularly long before present days, probably even before than Dess desappeance), Shuttah words about ancient times(what ancient times, I have seen how Kris created your world like hour ago).

No offense meant, but I wish you hadn't omitted the C. for "This is Option C. that I'm proposing" from your quoting of this part of a post of mine.

Fixed

 

[Imaginym]

AAA



Somehow I neglected to see & post Toby's reply to the patch notes post!

For anyone unwilling or unable to read the post:

"Honestly, there's not a real reason to play this patch unless you want to help us out.

By the way, it was mentioned above, but we would like to give a status update on Chapter 5 soon."

September 15th is Undertale's 10th Anniversary, & that's about 3 weeks away. How long is "soon" Toby?!?

 

[Qurbonboev]

C. The Delta Warriors shouldn't scale because they were using The Titan's opposite/weakness, LIGHT to weaken it & lower its defenses & mostly hitting its WEAK POINT & having hte SOUL shine its power on them. (It is possible The Titan could be a "stone wall"; Higher durability than its AP, since other than the debatable case of The Delta Warriors & Hammer of Justice (Who is in the same debate.), I don't know of any other cases of characters that can survive being harmed by The Titan

As long we consider CHECK stats as legitimate in some form or another, Titan is "stone wall". It's CHECK stats are AT 40 DEF 800 (massive 40x difference). Besides Titan Spawn (AT 30 DEF 200), all other enemies have more even profile.

By the way, it was mentioned above, but we would like to give a status update on Chapter 5 soon."

September 15th is Undertale's 10th Anniversary, & that's about 3 weeks away. How long is "soon" Toby?!?

I expect status update either directly on day of anniversary, or 1-2 weeks after if he wants to show some cool projects(which he has) on anniversary first(praying for Undertale Hard Mode)

 

[LittleGuy99]

Weird and interesting

 

[WeeklyBattles]

 

[LittleGuy99]

My opinion on the Tiers
Titan, Titan Spawn and Gerson: Low 7-C
The Fun Gang Ch3-Ch4: At most Low 7-C
The Roaring Knight: Unknown, likely Low 7-C

Although I'm exaggerating a little, I feel that it makes more sense for all normal enemies to be 8-C, I say 8-C because that's what is accepted so far, the Delta Warriors and the others above should be Low 7-C

Ch3-Ch4 Fodders, Fake Mikes, Tenna and Jackenstein: At most Low 7-C(?) (12-30 ATK DF) (The weakest enemy in Chapter 4 has 14 attack and can damage the Delta Warriors, who can resist direct attacks from the Titan that is superior to Giga Queen. The enemy with the lowest defense in Chapter 4 has 12 DF and can withstand attacks from the Delta Warriors. The Titan uses the Titan Spawn themselves in their battle, they have 30 attack which is not far from the attack levels that the enemies in this chapter have) (Tenna should be superior to the Pippins who have 14 attack and 10 defense, while the Fake Mikes can damage the LV4 Delta Warriors) (The Pippins are simply superior to the King, that's all, they didn't dethrone him with force because they were simply afraid of him or just didn't want to)

The Fun Gang Ch1-Ch2: 9-A or At most 8-C
Ch1-Ch2 Fodders, King, Queen, Jevil, Spamton, Noelle, Berdly, Lancer and Rouxls Kaard: 9-A or At most 8-C (0-11 ATK DF) (Their attacks are capable of harming the LV3 Delta Warriors. At the very least, they can do damage comparable to Elnina, although the difference between 11 and 21 is very large, so I don't think they are THAT comparable, much less to reach Low 7-C) (Rouxls Kaard's lamp can damage the LV4 Delta Warriors, but I think that can be considered game mechanic and should not be taken into account, an outlier)
Okay, ready, now make the CRT /j

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The Sound of Justice calc hasn’t been touched in almost 10 days, don’t think it’s getting updated anytime soon

 

[Qurbonboev]

The Sound of Justice calc hasn’t been touched in almost 10 days, don’t think it’s getting updated anytime soon

Should I do what I already planned(fixing mistakes in original calc myself and republishing in my blog)?

 

[Imaginym]

Probably nigh-useless/irrelevant, & may be based in neglected stuff, but it's possible to have $17 in Deltarune.

 

[Axorandom0]

My opinion on the Tiers
Titan, Titan Spawn and Gerson: Low 7-C
The Fun Gang Ch3-Ch4: At most Low 7-C
The Roaring Knight: Unknown, likely Low 7-C

Ch3-Ch4 Fodders, Fake Mikes, Tenna and Jackenstein: At most Low 7-C (12-30 ATK DF) (The weakest enemy in Chapter 4 has 14 attack and can damage the Delta Warriors, who can resist direct attacks from the Titan that is superior to Giga Queen. The enemy with the lowest defense in Chapter 4 has 12 DF and can withstand attacks from the Delta Warriors. The Titan uses the Titan Spawn themselves in their battle, they have 30 attack which is not far from the attack levels that the enemies in this chapter have) (Tenna should be superior to the Pippins who have 14 attack and 10 defense, while the Fake Mikes can damage the LV4 Delta Warriors) (The Pippins are simply superior to the King, that's all, they didn't dethrone him with force because they were simply afraid of him or just didn't want to)

The Fun Gang Ch1-Ch2: 9-A or At most 8-C
Ch1-Ch2 Fodders, King, Queen, Jevil, Spamton, Noelle, Berdly, Lancer and Rouxls Kaard: 9-A or At most 8-C (0-11 ATK DF) (Their attacks are capable of harming the LV3 Delta Warriors. At the very least, they can do damage comparable to Elnina, although the difference between 11 and 21 is very large, so I don't think they are THAT comparable, much less to reach Low 7-C) (Rouxls Kaard's lamp can damage the LV4 Delta Warriors, but I think that can be considered game mechanic and should not be taken into account, an outlier)
Okay, ready, now make the CRT /j

How does that show that pippins are simply superior to King?

 

[Qurbonboev]

My opinion on the Tiers
Titan, Titan Spawn and Gerson: Low 7-C
The Fun Gang Ch3-Ch4: At most Low 7-C
The Roaring Knight: Unknown, likely Low 7-C

Ch3-Ch4 Fodders, Fake Mikes, Tenna and Jackenstein: At most Low 7-C (12-30 ATK DF) (The weakest enemy in Chapter 4 has 14 attack and can damage the Delta Warriors, who can resist direct attacks from the Titan that is superior to Giga Queen. The enemy with the lowest defense in Chapter 4 has 12 DF and can withstand attacks from the Delta Warriors. The Titan uses the Titan Spawn themselves in their battle, they have 30 attack which is not far from the attack levels that the enemies in this chapter have) (Tenna should be superior to the Pippins who have 14 attack and 10 defense, while the Fake Mikes can damage the LV4 Delta Warriors) (The Pippins are simply superior to the King, that's all, they didn't dethrone him with force because they were simply afraid of him or just didn't want to)

The Fun Gang Ch1-Ch2: 9-A or At most 8-C
Ch1-Ch2 Fodders, King, Queen, Jevil, Spamton, Noelle, Berdly, Lancer and Rouxls Kaard: 9-A or At most 8-C (0-11 ATK DF) (Their attacks are capable of harming the LV3 Delta Warriors. At the very least, they can do damage comparable to Elnina, although the difference between 11 and 21 is very large, so I don't think they are THAT comparable, much less to reach Low 7-C) (Rouxls Kaard's lamp can damage the LV4 Delta Warriors, but I think that can be considered game mechanic and should not be taken into account, an outlier)
Okay, ready, now make the CRT /j

Should I do what I already planned(fixing mistakes in original calc myself and republishing in my blog)?

After fiddling with @Edutyn calcs(their fixed version are in my computer, not blogged yet), my conclusions are follow:
Sound of Justice and Fun Gang have 8-A AP and durability, and high hypersonic speed feats. Gerson should scale higher in speed and durability than them. Low 7-C for him and Titan sounds about right

 

[LittleGuy99]

How does that show that pippins are simply superior to King?

Well, the Pippins are comparable to the enemies of Chapter 3 and 4, having stats that surpass the strongest enemy of Chapter 2

But well, if I were to ignore the stats, I'd say they're all 8-C not counting Gerson, the Titan, the Titan Spawn, the Delta Warriors and obviously Giga Queen

 

[Ti58]

After fiddling with @Edutyn calcs(their fixed version are in my computer, not blogged yet), my conclusions are follow:
Sound of Justice and Fun Gang have 8-A AP and durability, and high hypersonic speed feats. Gerson should scale higher in speed and durability than them. Low 7-C for him and Titan sounds about right

Wait, does Sound of Justice have a reason to have 8-A durability? It gets like one shot by Ralsei.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Wait, does Sound of Justice have a reason to have 8-A durability? It gets like one shot by Ralsei.

1. Kris overpowering it and sending back with high hypersonic speed is 8-A AP feat for Kris. Sound of Justice manages to somehow slow down and get back to fight with no visible damage. If it didn't have corresponding durability, energy from air and ground friction alone would be enough to kill it. But I am not sure if it considered durability feat in this feat.
2. Ralsei kills it in 3 shots. Based on Tenna and Knight fight damage, difference between Kris and Ralsei AP is probably around 2-3 times. Ralsei attacks were aimed at relatively small area of Statue in order to break it down(unlike nature of Kris push)

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Sound of Justice and Fun Gang have 8-A AP and durability, and high hypersonic speed feats. Gerson should scale higher in speed and durability than them. Low 7-C for him and Titan sounds about right

Depends on how close it is to Low 7-C but ye.

Also should probably add arguments for it being a ground soundwave, it being airborne is going reduce the results by over a hundred times.

Wait, does Sound of Justice have a reason to have 8-A durability? It gets like one shot by Ralsei.

It physically does the 8-A feat, and ya know, every reaction has an equal opposite reaction.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Also should probably add arguments for it being a ground soundwave, it being airborne is going reduce the results by over a hundred times.

Will add reasons why sound waves relevant to us are ground ones, when I am going to publish it

 

[DaReaperMan]

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can we kindly not have two ongoing discussion threads at the same time please?

I think we're well past the spoiler time, so we just gonna migrate to the main thread which is beginning to be active again. Asking for this to get closed.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Can we kindly not have two ongoing discussion threads at the same time please?

I think we're well past the spoiler time, so we just gonna migrate to the main thread which is beginning to be active again. Asking for this to get closed.

I want it to be active tho lol