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Deltarune Chapter 2 discussion!

I think that warrants someone getting damage transfer
Also what evidence actually shows the player is the soul the player could just not physically exist in deltarune and if it was then Kris isn't even a mind the body has.
There's a mountain of implications that Kris is being controlled by the player's soul. I'll start with Chapter 1 evidence.

When you return to the overworld in Chapter 1, we learn that Kris can play the piano, but when you try it, it goes poorly. And other characters make some minor notes that Kris seems different from usual. Sans saying they had never met has a wink to go along with it, and most people seem to think that Sans is implying they have met before. It'd make sense if he was doing that because of the soul residing within Kris, not Kris himself, but that is a bit more of a stretch. It's also more logical for the player to be able to move their soul so freely like that. But most of all in Chapter 1, the biggest thing is the opening sequence. We see the red soul appear at the start of the game, and the red soul is tasked by an unknown being (most likely Gaster) to create a new vessel for themselves to inhabit. But at the end, the original entity speaking to them is cut off (it isn't the same one that was having you make a vessel), the first speaks in all caps and the second is more natural, and the second one has a different typer value (meaning a different "voice"). And that's followed by Kris "waking up". It's clear that what happened is you weren't allowed to choose an empty slate for yourself, and you were sort of "thrown" into Kris's body. It's also very weird how Kris can rip "his" soul out and throw it into a birdcage without dying.

In Chapter 2, we get even more instances of characters saying that Kris's behavior is unnatural, @Imaginym has already mentioned a lot of the Chapter 2 evidence as well. Such as, when Kris calls for help from Susie or Ralsei, nobody comes, but when the option for Noelle is chosen, it says "You" called for help, and almost immediately, Noelle defeats Spamton. That makes it literally almost guaranteed by itself that Kris isn't really the one doing all of this. And another thing is the scene that happens after the standard Spamton NEO battle. Kris seems to be highly uncomfortable and is even yelling when he speaks to Susie and Ralsei. I think I know why. Because Spamton was a puppet, being controlled by some higher entity. The literal one and only thing he desired was to be free, but in the end, freedom wasn't possible to obtain. I think the reason Kris is so mortified is because he knows he's being controlled as well, and in that scene, we see a little bit of how Kris is feeling. It also matches up with us controlling Noelle to the point of mind control. She barely realizes she's being controlled, at most she thinks Kris is just influencing her, not literally manipulating her thoughts.

Now, originally I thought it was Kris pulling you out of his body at the end of Chapter 1, but seeing as when that happens again in Chapter 2, "Kris" seems to have bad intentions. Slashing Toriel's tires and creating a new Fountain, which is literally trying to destroy the world. Unless Kris has an ulterior motive, that most likely isn't Kris, meaning there is another being controlling Frisk we don't know of. I believe currently that it's Chara, but it could be wrong.
 
Stating again that I believe the Knight is Chara. Maybe Kris', without the player's Soul, becomes the Knight, and then
Chara = Kris = Knight.
Destroying the Undertale Universe just to **** someone else's universe is pog
 
If that's the case, the Genocide Route would be the "canon" one in Undertale, right?
I don't think so. If this is an alternate timeline Chara went to after Genocide, then this is just where Chara went, there'd still be a lot of timelines separate from and unaffected by Genocide, and the timelines that are Post-Pacifist are, well, still Post-Pacifist. There isn't a canon version of Undertale's ending. Or rather, there's not a version that's solely canon above the rest, they're all equally canon.

But yeah, I think this is a situation following after you choose Erase and don't give your soul to restore the world. Chara is bound to the player's soul and would naturally be able to follow them into this different timeline. They're not necessarily in full control because you never gave them your soul here, but they can still, for the most part, take control, which is when they rip your soul out of Kris.

Of course, this is all major theory territory. It could be completely different. Chara may not even be in this game at all.
 
It seems to me like Deltarune might be a prequel if anything.
I think Toby is straight-up lying about it being unrelated to Undertale, all evidence points to the contrary.

Also following this thread, watched both the pacifist and genocide route and loved both of them.
 
It seems to me like Deltarune might be a prequel if anything.
I think Toby is straight-up lying about it being unrelated to Undertale, all evidence points to the contrary.

Also following this thread, watched both the pacifist and genocide route and loved both of them.
Toby isn't saying it's unrelated to Undertale, he's saying it's not linked to Undertale's direct storyline, and certainly not a sequel. It doesn't make sense for it to be a prequel either, as it's pretty clear this is in an alternate timeline.

It's simply apart of the same franchise as Undertale, but it isn't in the exact same universe.
 
Toby isn't saying it's unrelated to Undertale, he's saying it's not linked to Undertale's direct storyline, and certainly not a sequel. It doesn't make sense for it to be a prequel either, as it's pretty clear this is in an alternate timeline.

It's simply apart of the same franchise as Undertale, but it isn't in the exact same universe.
In a franchise which contains Universal characters, and in a game where new worlds are created seemingly regularly: not being part of the same timeline starts to mean less in terms of distance.
 
Ok. It's still not in the same specific story as Undertale, though. Toby isn't lying. At most he's just being somewhat nuanced about the importance between the links of the two games.
 
I think the implication is that only human souls have DT, as we never actually saw anyone else create a dark fountain.

Only human souls can seal the fountains, the same is likely true the other way around.
 
Apparently, regardless of race, the Lightner's all possess immense Determination, so much that the Queen believes any of them capable of creating a Fountain using their will alone.
 
Yeah, race is irrelevant in DR, where you come from is what is important. So instead of dealing with Racism, we're dealing with Xenophobia
 
But the thing that confuses me is that anyone who's gone to the Dark World so far has been a Lightner, even Berdly of all people. Maybe, somehow, literally all of them were coincidentally Lightner's, but maybe it's something that happens when they enter the Dark World. I mean, they change costumes and get new equipment out of nowhere. Susie is surprised that she somehow got an axe for no reason but just rolls with it.
 
But the thing that confuses me is that anyone who's gone to the Dark World so far has been a Lightner, even Berdly of all people. Maybe, somehow, literally all of them were coincidentally Lightner's, but maybe it's something that happens when they enter the Dark World. I mean, they change costumes and get new equipment out of nowhere. Susie is surprised that she somehow got an axe for no reason but just rolls with it.
Ralsei explained that. Darkners are just interpretation of the "World" they're based off. In Cyber World's case, it was wires, and tech.

Darkners are generated with the world
Lightners are... normal people
 
Susie also uses Dark Energy in her Rude Buster attack, but somehow I doubt she just has access to Dark Energy (or Rude Buster for that matter) at all times.
 
Ralsei explained that. Darkners are just interpretation of the "World" they're based off. In Cyber World's case, it was wires, and tech.

Darkners are generated with the world
Lightners are... normal people
Yes, but if Lightner's are supposed to be special, then why can anyone be a Lightner? So I think it's when they enter the Dark World, not that Monster's are different here.
 

If you take Noelle's Snow Ring & attempt to equip it to Ralsei, he thinks Kris is proposing.
Susie says it smells like Noelle. Which is just creepy, even if she might have a good sense of smell as a lizard; WHY DO YOU KNOW WHAT NOELLE SMELLS LIKE, SUSIE?!
 
"You have to prove a negative, you know"
How does that work?
So all claims are true unless they're debunked?

Well, believe it or not, I can actually destroy this planet if I wanted to.
^This is a very banalized example, but one nonetheless
Btw Annoying Dog is omnipotent because he's Toby Fox. You can't prove me wrong because there's nothing implying otherwise and no one scales to or above him, so it's true. 🤡
These are blatant false equivalences but ok. Anyway I already got the proof of Magic not being a thing in Light World (aka Susie and Noelle talk before Berdly appeared and Ralsei talked about the Roaring and the Titans) anyway, so we got enough proof of Tier 10 Light World counterparts imo.
 
You said that I need to prove all their souls aren't red when there was no evidence suggesting they were, not a false equivalence when the logic behind the argument is the same.

Can you post scans that they can't naturally use magic? Their tier's would just be unknown because they have no feats, apart from "Kris" cracking the floor in the Light World with the strike that created a new Fountain, maybe. The only feats in the Light World are that and Undyne casually bench-pressing a car.
 
Can you post scans that they can't naturally use magic? Their tier's would just be unknown because they have no feats, apart from "Kris" cracking the floor in the Light World with the strike that created a new Fountain, maybe. The only feats in the Light World are that and Undyne casually bench-pressing a car.
Susie talked about using magic as something that can't be a thing in the Light World and the obvious fact that Kris and Susie can't use their magic abilities there.
 
That is definitely odd. Magic is also never mentioned in the Light World at any point, I think. So that does indeed imply magic isn't a natural thing for Monster's in the Deltarune timeline, contrary to Undertale. I wonder if that'll be explored later.

Ralsei is also still very interesting. He knows magic and can teach it to Susie in the Dark World. He's also obviously related to Asriel in some way.

Minor theory, but I wonder if magic is known by the adults in the Light World, and they're, for some unknown reason, hiding it from the new generation? Of course it's more likely that magic just isn't an innate thing they have, but that's something I'll take into consideration.
 
I just realized something.


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I don't think that's a coincidence.
 
More of those eyes also show up at the first puzzle, but without the black goo.

Side note, I hope we get more information about the "TITANS" that Ralsei mentioned, which will apparently devastate the "land", probably meaning the world considering the context. That'd be really impressive for Toby's characters (minus UT god tiers of course).

I'm also completely certain it's a plain reference to The Rumbling from AoT. We know Toby seems to be a closet weeb so it wouldn't be surprising.
 
Ralsei is also still very interesting. He knows magic and can teach it to Susie in the Dark World. He's also obviously related to Asriel in some way.
In my headcanon Ralsei is the Dark World counterpart of Asriel, who was aware of this stuff way before Kris.
More of those eyes also show up at the first puzzle, but without the black goo.

Side note, I hope we get more information about the "TITANS" that Ralsei mentioned, which will apparently devastate the "land", probably meaning the world considering the context. That'd be really impressive for Toby's characters (minus UT god tiers of course).

I'm also completely certain it's a plain reference to The Rumbling from AoT. We know Toby seems to be a closet weeb so it wouldn't be surprising.
I think so? I'm pretty sure we'll fight such entities in the latest chapters.
 
In my headcanon Ralsei is the Dark World counterpart of Asriel, who was aware of this stuff way before Kris
We have few story elements that goes against that idea
Queen had a room for Asriel, yet, Ralsei claims that she had no room for him. She'd know if Ralsei was Asriel though, they're probably different in appearance as Asriel is much older than Kris' and co.
Kris' and Susie would obviously recognize Asriel, you can obviously excuse Kris since we're controlling him, but I don't think Susie would be the only High Schooler who hasn't seen Asriel at least once, etc

This can definitely be played around and put in the game just to throw us off, but still
 
Oh, would that be added as Enhanced Senses for Susie though?
Doubtful. She recognizes it as Noelle's scent, not smells Noelle far away. It's SORT OF like recognizing someone's perfume. & Noelle had the ring on quite recently.
Though, I don't think Ralsei smelled anything. But also, why would he smell the ring?
 
It is a hidden easter egg in Mansion, but I cannot find any proof about this.

It's the scene where all the Queen pots fill the room. Susie will go to each pot one-by-one and shatter them with a kick. It didn't happen to me on the first playthrough, oddly, so it may be an easter egg for if you replay.
 
It's the scene where all the Queen pots fill the room. Susie will go to each pot one-by-one and shatter them with a kick. It didn't happen to me on the first playthrough, oddly, so it may be an easter egg for if you replay.
I remember that. Yeah, literally even a 10-B can do that lol.
 
Those aren't pots, those are vases. They're pottery made out of clay. Even an actual human child irl would be able to break those if they tried hard enough.
 
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