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Deltarune Chapter 2 discussion!

A few things before the chapter comes out that need fixing;

  • Kris shouldn't have Time Manip on his profile, the game makes it clear that the SAVE/LOAD isn't his doing, but the mysterious voice's. I didn't add that when making the profile, and can't find a CRT where it was talked about before being added. The line about him being used as a vessel is also basically headcanon based off a vauge scene.
  • Apperently the + needs to be taken off their AP, the calc doesn't get into 9-B+.
  • Verse page? Or maybe it just goes into Undertale?
 
@ShockingPsychic It is taking all my focus not to read what you've posted right now; Still haven't played Chapter 2, & just got a question now that I've booted it up. This release is less than a week old, so folks, maybe spoiler stuff, please?


Despite being installed to a separate folder than Deltarune Chapter 1, it either knows about my previous save file (It gave me the option to start from Chapter 1, which I did.), or it has pre-made data.

Everyone else, what did your file select look like when booting up Deltarune Chapter 1 & 2?

Did it have pre-existing data in save slots?
 
I am really enjoying chapter 2 rn just because I find the dialog to be hilarious
unknown.png
 
Beat the chapter

Plenty of explosions to calc, and the final boss is a huge kaiju mecha battle (that Kris' durability scales to) that would probably get to 8-B? Maybe?

We need pages for Noelle, Berdly, Roulxs, Lancer, and Queen
 
4-A for creating starry skies actually, though I'm not sure if the Knight has enough for a profile yet.

Would it scale to the cast's AP and durability?
Screenshot_20210918-083141_YouTube.jpg
 
How long do we need to wait before making a CRT and new pages? Is there a period after a new release that you need to wait?
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Kris and Noelle also survive being rammed into my speeding cars.
Click to expand...
Finished playing throuch Chapter 2. Which cars when?
GodlyCharmander said:
Also, Knight and Souless Kris might need a 5-B key as they can create Dark Fountains which form worlds with Moons.
Click to expand...
This seems to be a Creation Feat. Not sure it'd scale to their AP/Striking Strength/Durability. They do so with their will or such, & similar for the Purification, which seems to be Environmental Destruction.

After beating Chapter 2, you can go read the books in the upstairs library. There's new SOUL lore:

"(It's Book 1 about SOULS. Read it?) The SOUL has long been called many things. The font of our compassion. The source of our will. The container of our "life force." But even now, the true function of it is unknown."


Regarding the Starry Skies, dunno if Deltarune's code is public, but if someone can somehow get the skybox so we can view the original image, it might make it easier to count the stars. Otherwise, we'd have to account for screen scrolling.


Talking to NPCs in town, there seem to be a bunch of other mysteries. Snowdrake & Monster Kid were outside the "lab entrance" before Susie, while accompanying Kris, scared them away.

There's also the prisoners' dialogue:
"We're the infamous dog-burgulars, The Wet-Nose Bandits." (We were getting ready to snak into that big house over the holidays... When we were attacked from the shadows, by something MERCILESS! Fearing for our lives, we all ran right into Officer Undyne's warm, loving arms... And she suplexed us all into the snow with our tails hanging in the air. (Now we're in jail, but at least we're alive...) Plus, that nice ghost keeps giving us incorporeally low-calorie treats. (Then we all howl holiday songs together. Ooo ooo ooo."
"(Make Dog Marriage, not Dog Jail!)"

Even if you don't care about Undyne suplexing them all into the air -Supposedly; It may have been 1 at a time.-. there's something weird going on:

1. Could any notably long holidays have happened recently? It's Fall, & based on the pencils & such, probably around Halloween. But they mention snow & we haven't seen any, it's only been like, 2 days in universe, & the trees are only changing colour, unlike in winter where most would lack leaves.
2. They were attacked "from the shadows, by something MERCILESS!". Since they all fled for their lives, towards Undyne.... Either they're idiots & somehow mistook Undyne as being "from the shadows" & FLED INTO HER ARMS, which is absurd for a few reasons, even if DT characters can be blatantly stupid.
So.... What was the thing "from the shadows" that attacked them presumably last year?
3. & "that big house".... It'd have to be the house of Noelle's parents; IIRC, her mom is mayor, the house has a gate, & Noelle is sheltered but her mom kinda neglects her, so her living in a big house makes sense. That might be the target.

So the conclusion seems like there might have been some kind of monster on the Holiday property last year.

....Oh, & while you're in the prison station, Undyne accidentally breaks her table, which leads to the prisoners getting free, but this event there seems more like an excuse to set up Kris doing a fetch quest for Undyne.
 
Imaginym said:
This seems to be a Creation Feat. Not sure it'd scale to their AP/Striking Strength/Durability. They do so with their will or such, & similar for the Purification, which seems to be Environmental Destruction.
Click to expand...
Seems to be created with pure darkness energy which can be used offensively, as shown with Susie. Either way, this can be anywhere from Tier 5 to Tier 4.

Imaginym said:
Even if you don't care about Undyne suplexing them all into the air -Supposedly; It may have been 1 at a time.-.
Click to expand...
She broke a thick table by slamming it with her hands. And lifted a car in the beginning of the game, so yeah.
 
Also, the chances that the Knight is Chara rises by 30% imo, the fountain is created by a Knife, the Knight is referred in red text, and Queen said something about Determination being key to create a fountain.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Seems to be created with pure darkness energy which can be used offensively, as shown with Susie. Either way, this can be anywhere from Tier 5 to Tier 4.
Click to expand...
Do we have confirmation Rude Buster is Darkness Energy? She's a Lightner, & not a monster, while all the SOUL stuff seems to have been done with Kris, which includes purifying the fountains. We see Kris create one, too, & Undertale has humans with souls, too.

Plus, isn't there stuff about how the fountain was created via Will & DETERMINATION, which are human-specific stuff?
Even if Susie can & does manipulate darkness (& I dunno what evidence we have for that.), she seems to lack the stuff needed to use Darkness Energy on that scale.

Kris, might, depending on the Dark World he made, but I don't think Susie would have the same potency with Darkness that a human might have, based on the will/DETERMINATION & SOUL stuff.
Also, there was Queen admiring the Knight's creation, acting all impressed, perhaps even obsessed (Its creation being a video she has to watch like a movie for movie night.) & wanting a bigger world (I think?), implying she lacked the power to do so, or considered The (Roaring?) Knight stronger than herself.

She wanted Noelle's SOUL, but as she said, she's a computer, she doesn't know everything, & even if Noelle has a SOUL that can be harnessed that way, her using it to expand her world (IIRC) suggests it wouldn't be more creation than The Knight's.

If Queen & Kris are comparable, Roaring Knight being far above Queen would make it suspect if Kris can create a world of the same scale as The Knight.
GodlyCharmander said:
She broke a thick table by slamming it with her hands.
Click to expand...
I mentioned this in my spoiler about the prisoners' dialogue.
GodlyCharmander said:
And lifted a car in the beginning of the game, so yeah.
Click to expand...
Saw a gif of that earlier, & saw it in game, but I didn't mention it, yeah.
 
Rude Buster is definitely called "darkness energy" in Chapter 1 somewhere, can't find the exact screenshot though.
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Rude Buster is definitely called "darkness energy" in Chapter 1 somewhere, can't find the exact screenshot though.
Click to expand...
Hopefully that scan can be found, may help with potential justifications.

Still, even if this feat weren't crazy high above the 'verse's usual power scale, I do still have my grievances with it.
 
I think the highest they can get is tier 8, due to Kris' soul taking hits from Giga Queen's missiles. At the very least, Giga Queen and Thrash get tier 8 with everyone else not scaling.
 
Would they have two keys separating chapter 1 and 2? They seem to have grown in power, having more HP at least.
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Would they have two keys separating chapter 1 and 2? They seem to have grown in power, having more HP at least.
Click to expand...
Probably. You're Level 1 all of Chapter 1, & Level 2 all of Chapter 2. May be worthwhile to compare their stats & descriptions in the Power(s?) section of the menu when starting Chapter 1 & Chapter 2, just in case.
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Found the scan.
tumblr_inline_phyf2o26hd1skvx78_640.png
Click to expand...
Neat. Though, given the SOUL Stuff, I'm skeptic non-humans can harness Dark Energy on the scale of creating a Dark Fountain.
Also, IIRC, at some point, Ralsei explains that The Fountain in Castle Town's Dark World is pure Dark Energy, hence any Darkners being able to survive there, while non-natives like Lancer gradually start fading & then petrifying in other Dark Worlds.

So The Fountain that created the world with stars & moons may not be as "pure" (Of Darkness) as others, whatever that means.
& AFAIK, Lancer wasn't cured when Kris's SOUL purified the computer lab's Dark World.
 
Imaginym said:
Probably. You're Level 1 all of Chapter 1, & Level 2 all of Chapter 2. May be worthwhile to compare their stats & descriptions in the Power(s?) section of the menu when starting Chapter 1 & Chapter 2, just in case.
Click to expand...
you're level 3 at the end of chapter 2.
 
Just to clarify, I never said Susie would scale to Kris' feat, if it's 4-A at all, I just used her as an EXAMPLE that Dark Energy can be used offensively. If Souless Kris can create a Solar System-sized world with Dark Energy, he should be able to destroy it too.
 
If the Knight is Chara, which seems to be the case, they wouldn't necessarily get an upgrade as they're already Low 2-C right?
Because the whole "Destroy this World and move on to the next" line at the end of Undertale would imply that the Knight is the same character.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Because it's clearly someone else controlling him, and because his Souless version has a creation feat normal Kris hasn't shown to be capable of reaching.
Click to expand...
GodlyCharmander said:
Just to clarify, I never said Susie would scale to Kris' feat, if it's 4-A at all, I just used her as an EXAMPLE that Dark Energy can be used offensively. If Souless Kris can create a Solar System-sized world with Dark Energy, he should be able to destroy it too.
Click to expand...
If someone else is controlling SOUL-less Kris, them scaling to that when they do have their SOUL seems unusual, & if it's someone ELSE who is doing the Fountain Creation feat, it likely wouldn't be Kris's Dark Energy potency.
Either way, it's way beyond anything Kris has shown, & a Creation feat, too, so I'm skeptical of scaling it to Attack Potency (Except as Environmental Destruction or Creation AP that may not be combat applicable.), Striking Strength &/or Durability.
Kris does pretty much all his fighting & feats with a SOUL inside him.

Also, we haven't seen what world Soulless Kris created yet, & the Fountain may not even be the same kind since Castle Town's was pure darkness & Computer Lab's wasn't.
 
OK, summary;

AP/Dura Upgrades:
During the final battle with Queen, she gets inside of a mech modeled after herself called Giga Queen, which dwarfs the skyscrapers that make up the edges of the battlefield. The Delta Heroes (Kris, Susie, Ralsei) also get a mech called Thrash. I'd assume these two get 8-B off of size alone, though that may require a calc. While the battle is a Punch Out-Style match between these two, there is a segment where Kris' soul is called out and the traditional bullet board is used. Here, Kris tanks hits from Giga Queen's missiles and fire breath. I propose scaling Kris' durability to either the 8-B of the mechs or to the result of the missiles/fire that hit them directly, which scales to Susie's AP and therefore pretty much everyone in the verse. If this doesn't work, then we still have a few explosion feats, and Kris and Noelle getting hit by a car. Would probably need a calc, but lets just say 9-B for now, but higher than before. There might might be some potential for 9-A somewhere.

To recap:

Giga Queen, Thrash: 8-B via size

Kris: At least 9-B, possibly 8-B, 4-A via Creation and Environmental Destruction

Susie, Ralsei, Berdly, Noelle, Queen: At least 9-B, possibly 8-B

Lancer, Jevil, King, K. Round: 9-B

Chapter 1 bosses haven't fought the Lv. 2 heroes, only their Level 1 selves, so I think it's safe to say they don't get upgraded. Jevil may be an exception, given how he can, in weapon form, damage the Chapter 2 bosses?

If the 8-B reasoning is solid enough, remove the "at least 9-B"

Speed:

I don't think we have anything better than Susie's Chapter 1 feat, besides maybe the movements of the mechs. Giga Queen has an animation where she leaps into the sky very swiftly, maybe that's something.

Powers:

Kris: Creation (Can create Dark Worlds, which can hold multiple stars), Dimensional Storage? (Can quickly change into a nurses' outfit), Limited Dimensional Travel (Can freely travel to a Dark World through any entry point), needs Time Manipulation removed, as well as the reference to being the player's avatar. This is teetering on headcanon territory.

Susie: Minor Healing (via Ultimaheal), Dimensional Storage (Can quickly change into a nurses' outfit and pull out a giant syringe), Limited Dimensionl Travel (Can freely travel to a Dark World through any entry point)

Ralsei: Statistics Amplification (via Fluffy Guard), Dimensional Storage (Can change into a nurses' outfit)

Noelle: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Ice Manipulation, Healing, Sleep Manipulation

Berdly: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Flight, Soul Manipulation, Durability Negation, Weapon Mastery, Air Manipulation, Paper Manipulation

Queen: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Soul Manipulation, Durability Negation, Acid Manipulation, Forcefield Creation

Giga Queen: Large Size (Type 2), Magic, Soul Manipulation, Durability Negation, Duplication, Creation (of baseballs), Flight, Inorganic Phisiology

Thrash: Large Size (Type 2), Self-Healing, Statistics Amplification, Aura, Inorganic Phisiology

Other/Etc:

I think an Undyne (Deltarune) profile is definitely possible. AP and dura can likely be 9-B for lifting a car and breaking a desk in half, and speed can be athletic human for being a trained police woman.

If we really feel like it, a Light World Kris key (10-B, 9-C with knife, possibly 4-A via Creation) would kinda be possible? Maybe?
 
Last edited:
Imaginym said:
If someone else is controlling SOUL-less Kris, them scaling to that when they do have their SOUL seems unusual, & if it's someone ELSE who is doing the Fountain Creation feat, it likely wouldn't be Kris's Dark Energy potency.
Either way, it's way beyond anything Kris has shown, & a Creation feat, too, so I'm skeptical of scaling it to Attack Potency (Except as Environmental Destruction or Creation AP that may not be combat applicable.), Striking Strength &/or Durability.
Kris does pretty much all his fighting & feats with a SOUL inside him.

Also, we haven't seen what world Soulless Kris created yet, & the Fountain may not even be the same kind since Castle Town's was pure darkness & Computer Lab's wasn't.
Click to expand...
Souless Kris doesn't need his soul to create the fountain.


Never said this scales to his normal energy, as he doesn't have Dark Energy when we control him. He'd get a new key, like Normal | Souless
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Kris: At least 9-B, possibly 8-B, 4-A via Creation and Environmental Destruction

Powers:

Kris: Creation (Can create Dark Worlds, which can hold multiple stars), Dimensional Storage? (Can quickly change into a nurses' outfit), Limited Dimensional Travel (Can freely travel to a Dark World through any entry point), needs Time Manipulation removed, as well as the reference to being the player's avatar. This is teetering on headcanon territory.
Click to expand...
This does not scale to Kris normally, it's clearly something he can only do when he remove this own SOUL (Aka, our control over him).

He'd need a new key to represent his 4-A feat, if is 4-A at all.
ShockingPsychic said:
Speed:

I don't think we have anything better than Susie's Chapter 1 feat, besides maybe the movements of the mechs. Giga Queen has an animation where she leaps into the sky very swiftly, maybe that's something.
Click to expand...
Missiles are Supersonic, Kris' SOUL can dodge them.
Kris, and pretty much everyone else in the cast should be upgraded to Supersonic for being comparable to Kris'

Also... Lasers being used on some enemies, which are technological.... I dunno man.
 
Personally I suggest we don't seperate Kris as Souless Light World | Vessel Light World | Dark World, but rather as just Light World | Dark World
 
Didn't we fight something with Electricity? That's the theme of the whole thing. We also can dodge sound-based attacks from those guys in the middle game.
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Personally I suggest we don't seperate Kris as Souless Light World | Vessel Light World | Dark World, but rather as just Light World | Dark World
Click to expand...
How about something like:

Attack Potency: Human Level, Wall Level with Knife. Multi-Solar System Level when SOUL-less (can create Dark Fountains, blah blah)

We need to inform that Kris cannot perform this feat normally somehow.
 
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