DCEU Old Gods & Superman Tiering

[Pepper14832]

Yep. I'm bringing this up again. This will be the final time I do so.

All Old Gods should be the same tier as Superman. We give Superman High 6-A for being able to pull apart The Motherbox and being resurrected by it. The Mother Box itself is listed as having High 6-A Durability. So there's no reason why Zeus should still be 6-B. How does an Old God with 6-B AP one shot an object with High 6-A durability?

Tbh, I don't see how Superman is higher tiering than any Old God even if he is the mascot of DC.

(Note: I don't believe WW has reached her full potential yet in this universe, I'd like to talk about her next but first Zeus, Ares, Stepphenwolf tiering.)

 

[Freedomstar]

I mean this seems logical. Did Zeus spam on the Mother Box or oneshot?

 

[Pepper14832]

One shot


The Story of Steppenwolf Justice League Korean sub

 

[Qawsedf234]

Here's a gif of it in case the video goes down

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew evaluated the DCEU ratings. You can ask him to comment here if you wish.

 

[Heatforce]

I agree. The only outliers are Steppenwolf and Ares. Ares was portrayed as a much younger and hulking fighter when they fought Steppenwolf, which is why I think Ares needs a separate key for his younger and older versions. And Steppenwolf tanked both lightning from Zeus and an axe attack from Ares. So it would make more since if Zeus, (young) Ares and Steppenwolf were low 6A or likely low 6A ( to give an out in case canon changes) as that would align better. Also, I know this hinges on Ares being weaker than his prime when he was fighting DIana, but like I said that's why he should get two keys.

@Matt may still want to wait to give his opinion. I don't think the digital downloads of JL has any bonus material so maybe we should wait for the blue ray to release than re-discuss?

 

[Pepper14832]

I'd like to ask why age means anything when they are literal Gods?

 

[Hellbeast1]

I have no real problem with Zeus and Ares at their peaks being High 6-A honestly due to Zeus oneshotting Steppenwolf and the Unity (which Ares is about equal to at least with enough conflict) Plus there is a High 6-A calc for Enchantress that Zeus apparently scales to.

Also on the subject of Enchantress why was her page deleted? Their was no real issue with the page at all and it hasnt been restored for some reason.

 

[Hellbeast1]

@Pepper Because Ares was still weakened from his fight with Zeus which he claims when he reveals himself to Diana

I'm unsure if he means hedidnt have as much conflict fueling him or he was pretty much crippled in his fight with Diana.

 

[Rocker1189]

Superman being High 6-A (somehow) makes zero sense in the first place. DCEU has no feats that even put it in the Tier 6 level let alone 6-A.

 

[Hellbeast1]

It has several Tier 6 feats such as

Zeus creating an island with his dying breath

Zeus oneshotting the Unity

The Unity is able to warp the surface of a planet and survive the effect.

Supes shifted a Tectonic Plate

Enchantress created a country sized thunder storm

 

[Freedomstar]

I'm sure the reasons stated he is tier 6 in the first place is logical.

 

[Rocker1189]

Right so it was stated to be stronger than a planet in energy and can terraform planets excpet this quote is completely taken out of context. It has the energy if a planet but does not output that each second which is what is required to have and AP your AP is your Destructive capability in one hit not several which the Motherbox does over time. It would literally take the mother box Days to terraform a whole planet.

Zeus creating an island that we never see and we dont even know how. How long did it take him. How big was the island. What it hax or was it using his energy.

I have already talked about the mother box so nothing to say about Zeus destroying it.

Supes shifting a tectonic plate another thing that we have never seenn and have zero context about.

Please show me the enchantress one because I am dont really know about that.

The fact is that onscreen feats in DCEU include Superman struggling to tank a small missile. Superman lifing buildings. Superman smashin through rocks. It is hard to even put them at city level. IN fact one of the calcs still being used seems to have been debunked by the person who calced it himself.

Not to mention the speed ratings make zero sense.

 

[Qawsedf234]

> Please show me the enchantress one because I am dont really know about that.

Here you go, although it took three days to set up going by Flagg's statement so it's a prep feat (storm was still visibly expanding though so it may count). Someone did a calc of it, but I don't know if it applies considering the prep context

> Not to mention the speed ratings make zero sense.

To my (admittly limited) understanding it works similar to this. Although maybe it's just "They make MHS+ people look frozen so therefore they should be one tier higher speed wise".

 

[Rocker1189]

Alright so Echantress's feat does seem sort of legitimate I guess? But even then no one else scales from it.

The speed feat banks entriely on Superman getting there in 8.4 seconds which is definitely cinematic timing as we never see him going the whole way and is completely nullified by movie feats that we do see Superman do making him much much slower that that. Especially feats done by the flash putti ghim above everyone but Superman in speed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

> completely nullified by movie feats that we do see Superman do making him much much slower that that.

Like taking about 60+ seconds to fly around the world?

> Especially feats done by the flash puttig him above everyone but Superman in speed.

Even without the above scaling, Superman should still be pretty fast considering he made bullet timers look frozen. Also just the Flash? Superman was pretty consistent with matching the Flash's speed

 

[Rocker1189]

I did say everyon but superman.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think the general idea that was orginially proposed was that the Motherbox amped Superman when he was revived. So Post-Resurrection Superman would be superior to Pre-Resurrection Superman. So it would go "Post-Resurrection Superman > Pre-Resurrection Superman ~ Wonder Woman ~ Aquaman/Cyborg". Unless the reason for the scaling is not your criticism

 

[Rocker1189]

I have no issues with the scaling my issue is the actual tier that they are scaled at.

 

[Rocker1189]

Honestly I barely remeber watching this movie but how did Superman end up in India?

 

[Qawsedf234]

The short story is that the Kryptonians were terraforming the Earth in order for it to be more like Krypton. The World Engine (the thing Superman blew up) was on the opposite side of the planet and was attempting to basically crush the Earth into a denser ball. So Superman flew over there to stop it. He was injured by the machine since it was replicating Krypton's atmosphere, he got healed by the sun, and then quickly flew to Metropolis.

 

[Rocker1189]

Okay there are a few issues with the time frame. When Superman destroys the World Engine in India we can see that there is day light meaning that it should be night for Metropolis in America and we can see the sun setting in India as he lies down on the ground. So unless the days on earth last for 120+ seconds he could not have flown around the earth in 60+ seconds. We dont even see him take flight this makes me to belive it probably took him a couple of hours or more to get to Metropolis.

Making bullet timers frozen does not make you anywhere close to mach 3000.

 

[Qawsedf234]

> We dont even see him take flight this makes me to belive it probably took him a couple of hours or more to get to Metropolis.

Actually the timeframe is established with the airplane Zod was attacking. At the same time Superman destroyed the world engine it was flying to ram Zod's ship and Metropolis was clearly in view. There's no way the plane could've taken multiple hours to get to Zod's ship

EDIT: Forgot

> Making bullet timers frozen does not make you anywhere close to mach 3000.

Sure, but that's still pretty fast. Which was my point

 

[Rocker1189]

Alright I concede that but it honestly puts him at where I thought he was at which is mach 700 - 800 at most and is consistent with his feats(a little bit too fast but nothing insane).

His AP still does not match his feats however.

But I also dont think that is his combat speed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

> Alright I concede that but it honestly puts him at where I thought he was at which is mach 700 - 800 at most and is consistent with his feats(a little bit too fast but nothing insane).

Yeah I can behind that considering some of his other stuff

 

[Pepper14832]

Age shouldn't have anything to do with the tier rating of Ares. If anything, that should be a feat into their Regenerationn from strong attacks. If these are Godly beings with Godly Stamnia and ect....Age should have nothing to do with their strength since they are immortal.

 

[Antvasima]

Has anybody asked Matthew to comment here?

 

[Heatforce]

@ Rocker1189, Which missile are you talking about? In BvS he casually destroys a missile meant to destroy a village and the predator drone that fired it. Plus, even while weakened by kryptonite he wasn't vaporized by the nuke. That stated, the shifting of a tectonic plate was originally considered an outlier until Zeus' feat. Just because it happened off-screen doesn't mean it isn't considered (we do the same with the mcu i.e. cap pulling that bulldozer in AoS). It is literally stated that Zeus created the island with his dying breath and he hid it with magic in order to protect the Amazons. Speed wise, Diana is more than a bullet timer herself as she kept up with Doomsday who kept with Superman. Plus Diana reacted to real lightning a few times in her own movie, yet she has nothing on Flash or Superman. And regarding Flash, Terrio stated he was studying blue shifts in regard to Barry so when we see him running the lighting generated is a blue shift iirc.

 

[Hellbeast1]

And dont forget there is a Sub-Rel calc for Pre Mother Box Supes which scales to himself, Diana, Zeus, Ares etc

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I will explain everything later.

 

[Schnee_One]

And dont forget there is a Sub-Rel calc for Pre Mother Box Supes which scales to himself, Diana, Zeus, Ares etc

I don't see how the others scale when they're slower then him.

 

[Heatforce]

@Gargoyle One, he did say pre-mother box superman or pre-resurrected superman. On that note where is this calc?

 

[Qawsedf234]

> On that note where is this calc?

Here . But it makes the assumption that the satellite Superman threw Zod at was in geosynchronous orbit and that the scene happened in real time.

 

[Hellbeast1]

@Gargoyle as Mr Force pointed out i said Pre-Motherbox Supes.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's wait for Matthew to get the time to sort this out.

 

[Pepper14832]

Alright

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1441780

Welp someone made a new thread again.