Dceu: Superman, the strongest one there is

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I was going to just do this for Kara but then I realized something after watching the flash film. No one should really scale to Superman. Now I know that sounds a bit nutty but hear me out.

Most characters besides Zod scale to Clark via doomsday and diana. This is due to them fighting on par and what not. This is all well and good but clark simply wasn’t at full power when fighting doomsday threw out the entire movie.

In there first fight supes was most likely still being affected by the kryptoniate he was exposed to in his fight with Bruce

The reason I say this isn’t necessarily because of the scar on his face but because for his performance against doomsday. In Clark’s first in counter with the abomination being just born, he kinda gets his ass kicked



(0:43)

Clark blitz’s doomsday but is basically dose nothing to him and he shrugs it off and then proceeded to throw Clark through a memorial stone then smashs him with another then chucks his ass into another building and Clark is nowhere to be scene for like a whole ass min(or two). And I think we can all agree that the guy with super hearing and mhs flight could get back to the cave troll in a matter of seconds, so supes was either KOed or extremely dazed.


Now let’s compare that two after he was “healed” by the sun and fighting a post nuke doomsday




He was able to take multiple blows from DD and came back to the brawl seconds later and even straight up shrugged off his hv. Hell clark even made doomsday adapt after only one bullrush. This is obviously a massive improvement from their first confrontation. But the problem here is he simply wasn’t fully healed by the sun.

Even though his muscles mass and skin tone returned to normal that wouldn’t mean he was back at full strength as best shown with his cousin. In the flash film Kara is rescued from a Russian containment facility and is pretty malnourished and weak. She’s exposed to the sun, heals and gets powers. Despite this she immediately collapses after killing all of the guards. This is kind off further empathized with the justice league film really hammering in that clark is a cut above the rest


(0:40)


(0:22)

Diana even states(when referring to steppenwolf) that she’s never seen anything as strong as him expect for maybe Superman(timestamp: 1:49:47), despite facing doomsday with Clark. And of course the final mail in the coffin is Clark clapping everyone after being resurrected

Now as for Zod he zod have a tier 7 key for his unadapted self. This really no reason why he’d be tier 6 with a limited amount of sun light and not completely adapted to earth’s atmosphere. Kara should just be tier 7 since she got clapped by said unadapted zod. Everyone else that benefits from the doomsday scaling should also be dropped down to tier 7 do to WW statment about steppenwolf being the strongest(sans Clark) which would include tier 7 unadapted kryptonians.

 

[Dalesean027]

following

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I do agree about the stuff regarding Superman not being at full strength while fighting Doomsday. This is something already accepted on the profile

Diana even states(when referring to steppenwolf) that she’s never seen anything as strong as him expect for maybe Superman(timestamp: 1:49:47)

Was this in Joostice League or ZSJL? I don't remember

And of course the final mail in the coffin is Clark clapping everyone after being resurrected

It's kind of weird. Steppenwolf endured a huge beating from Superman, and the rest of the JL scales to him in some way. Aquaman stabbed him with his quindent and harmed him with a punch. Diana regularly trades blows with him (though I notice her sword can't do shit against his armour) and her profile mentions she is superior to Aquaman

Diana herself outright took a headbutt from Superman then slightly staggered / harmed him with her own, though a headbutt with more effort did knock her to the ground

I'm neutral about the downgrade, though I'll wait for further input

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I do agree with downgrading Kara and anyone that scales to Flashpoint Kryptonians.

As for downgrading everyone else I disagree overall. It was stated MoS Zod fought against Superman “at the height of their powers” and Doomsday should be at least as strong as Zod due to essentially being Zod’s mutated corpse.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I do agree about the stuff regarding Superman not being at full strength while fighting Doomsday. This is something already accepted on the profile

Was this in Joostice League or ZSJL? I don't remember

It's kind of weird. Steppenwolf endured a huge beating from Superman, and the rest of the JL scales to him in some way. Aquaman stabbed him with his quindent and harmed him with a punch. Diana regularly trades blows with him (though I notice her sword can't do shit against his armour) and her profile mentions she is superior to Aquaman

Diana herself outright took a headbutt from Superman then slightly staggered / harmed him with her own, though a headbutt with more effort did knock her to the ground

I'm leaning towards agreeing, but I'll wait for further input

Ok

ZSJL

ok, that doesn’t really mean much considering I’m sure Clark was pulling his punches.

agian holding back, he lasers Bruce in the face and his somehow alive. Probably caught him by surprise considering he no-selled steppenwolf he axe

ok

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I do agree with downgrading Kara and anyone that scales to Flashpoint Kryptonians.

As for downgrading everyone else I disagree overall. It was stated MoS Zod fought against Superman “at the height of their powers” and Doomsday should be at least as strong as Zod due to essentially being Zod’s mutated corpse.

I’m talking about zod before he was fully adapted, doomsday is an abomination with a mix of inferior human dna. I don’t see why he would be as strong

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

that doesn’t really mean much considering I’m sure Clark was pulling his punches.

Why would he pull his punches against an invading alien whose goal will wipe out all humanity?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

ZSJL

ok, that doesn’t really mean much considering I’m sure Clark was pulling his punches.

Why would he pull his punches on Steppenwolf?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Why would he pull his punches against an invading alien whose goal will wipe out all humanity?

Why would he pull his punches on Steppenwolf?

Because his Superman, if he wanted to kill him then he could have just cut off his head with hv

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Because his Superman, if he wanted to kill him then he could have just cut off his head with hv

He already tried blasting him with heat vision. Steppenwolf just withstood it

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I’m talking about zod before he was fully adapted, doomsday is an abomination with a mix of inferior human dna. I don’t see why he would be as strong

I don't see why he'd be weakened, that's not stated anywhere.

Because his Superman, if he wanted to kill him then he could have just cut off his head with hv

He did use his HV (twice), Steppenwolf survived it both times. Nothing in either version of Justice League suggests Supes didn't want Steppenwolf dead like the rest of the League.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

He already tried blasting him with heat vision. Steppenwolf just withstood it

Ya and then he cut a bit serious and cut off his horn

I don't see why he'd be weakened, that's not stated anywhere.


He did use his HV (twice), Steppenwolf survived it both times. Nothing in either version of Justice League suggests Supes didn't want Steppenwolf dead like the rest of the League.

Unadapted kryptonians are weaker than their adapted selves. There straight up not absorbing as much sunlight as they could be or however it works

ya and he clearly wasn’t trying to kill him both times. If he wanted him dead then wolf would have died a lot sooner in both versions and nothing suggest he would want him dead anyways

 

[AnonymousBlank]

What Mav said about DD > Zod = Supes > WE Supes. The Scout Ship AI was warning against the creation of DD so it makes no sense to argue DD gets weaker from the infusion of human DNA. Been my thoughts on this for years and likely will stay that way.

Edit: As for Kara, I haven’t seen Flash but if she only fights armored Zod who was never pressed like he was against Clark, tier 7 for her.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

What Mav said about DD > Zod = Supes > WE Supes. The Scout Ship AI was warning against the creation of DD so it makes no sense to argue DD gets weaker from the infusion of human DNA. Been my thoughts on this for years and likely will stay that way.

The ai warning is irrelevant, all it means is his dangerous due to past abominations being dangerous. And considering kryptonians didn’t exactly have superpowers on krypton they would have no idea how strong doomsday would be in comparison to an adapted kryptonian

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The ai warning is irrelevant, all it means is his dangerous due to past abominations being dangerous. And considering kryptonians didn’t exactly have superpowers on krypton they would have no idea how strong doomsday would be in comparison to an adapted kryptonian

You mean the super advanced AI supercomputer that is responsible for overseeing the genetic alterations to Kryptonians and their stability (which you are even positing has knowledge of previous abominations) isn’t an authority on whether or not DD would be as dangerous as Yellow Sun Kryptonians despite having encountered the latter at least three times where it can witness their strength? The same AI that is also self aware enough to register and be terrified of the Mother Boxes? Even Lex specifically births DD to kill Superman after having just as much info as Bats does on Supes and the League (if not more), discovers Supes’ weakness to Kryptonite, manages to access the Scout Ship without an access key etc. It’s very clear that DD is > Zod, especially when the guides for BvS repeatedly state that Supes faces his toughest trials in this movie.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Yeah, I disagree with the downgrade, aside from Kara

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You mean the super advanced AI supercomputer that is responsible for overseeing the genetic alterations to Kryptonians and their stability (which you are even positing has knowledge of previous abominations) isn’t an authority on whether or not DD would be as dangerous as Yellow Sun Kryptonians despite having encountered the latter at least three times where it can witness their strength? The same AI that is also self aware enough to register and be terrified of the Mother Boxes? Even Lex specifically births DD to kill Superman after having just as much info as Bats does on Supes and the League (if not more), discovers Supes’ weakness to Kryptonite, manages to access the Scout Ship without an access key etc. It’s very clear that DD is > Zod, especially when the guides for BvS repeatedly state that Supes faces his toughest trials in this movie.

Ya pretty much since it’s warnings are only based on the process being banned by krypton

(2:18)
edit: plus agian it never straight up said “this thing is as strong as superman or zod” it just implies it is dangerous at best nothing more

And? Lex also thought he could control DD and it almost squashed him like a bug. His “trials” was the world actually accepting him as just a guy trying to do the right thing

Unless the guide book is referring specifically to doomsday then I don’t see that doing much in terms of proof

 

[Hellbeast]

Adding to this, theres statements from Snyder himself Superman is weakened at night, further complicating the scale (trying to find it, believe it was from a commentary)

 

[Reyne]

I don't see why Doomsday would be weaker than Zod. You'd have to prove human DNA makes Zod weaker. You'd also have to quantify how much weaker Superman would be at night. Superman was super weak after taking on the World Engine, and yet he reached the height of his power up to that point after receiving just a sliver of sun light. I don't see why the space revival scene is any different, or why he'd be weaker than he was in MoS. He heals and then puts a bullrush into Doomsday.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

You got some explaining to do, boy.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I don't see why Doomsday would be weaker than Zod. You'd have to prove human DNA makes Zod weaker. You'd also have to quantify how much weaker Superman would be at night. Superman was super weak after taking on the World Engine, and yet he reached the height of his power up to that point after receiving just a sliver of sun light. I don't see why the space revival scene is any different, or why he'd be weaker than he was in MoS. He heals and then puts a bullrush into Doomsday.

I already did, not really already went over tier 7 stuff for everyone. Probably because he was nowhere near as hurt in MoS. Just like Kara, she heals but still needs sunlight.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Now as for Zod he zod have a tier 7 key for his unadapted self. This really no reason why he’d be tier 6 with a limited amount of sun light and not completely adapted to earth’s atmosphere. Kara should just be tier 7 since she got clapped by said unadapted zod. Everyone else that benefits from the doomsday scaling should also be dropped down to tier 7 do to WW statment about steppenwolf being the strongest(sans Clark) which would include tier 7 unadapted kryptonians.

I mean Zod was already fighting fairly evenly against Superman even while he was wearing his armor in the final battle, I don't see why'd be so massively below in Flashpoint.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I mean Zod was already fighting fairly evenly against Superman even while he was wearing his armor in the final battle, I don't see why'd be so massively below in Flashpoint.

Zod had his mask off when fighting Clark in their final battle. Not the same as being unadapted with his mask on. As the mask clearly effects his intake of sunlight

(1:40)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Zod had his mask off when fighting Clark in their final battle. Not the same as being unadapted with his mask on. As the mask clearly effects his intake of sunlight

(1:40)

Fair ig. Zod during this time does at least upscale from the likes Nam-Ek and Faora, right? That and Kara and Zod are portrayed as physically stronger than either of the Flashes. So Kara would be At least 7-C, while Zod becomes At least 7-C, up to Low 6-B, similar to Superman

 

[Hellbeast]

I don't see why Doomsday would be weaker than Zod. You'd have to prove human DNA makes Zod weaker. You'd also have to quantify how much weaker Superman would be at night. Superman was super weak after taking on the World Engine, and yet he reached the height of his power up to that point after receiving just a sliver of sun light. I don't see why the space revival scene is any different, or why he'd be weaker than he was in MoS. He heals and then puts a bullrush into Doomsday.

I mean we already have precedent for Doomsday being weaker then Zod considering the Supes he fights is clearly still recovering from Kryptonite (like he doesn't get the outright top tier scaling until the Nuke hits)

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Fair ig. Zod during this time does at least upscale from the likes Nam-Ek and Faora, right? That and Kara and Zod are portrayed as physically stronger than either of the Flashes. So Kara would be At least 7-C, while Zod becomes At least 7-C, up to Low 6-B, similar to Superman

Ya probably, ya that looks about right

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

7-C Zod might cause scaling issues on the speed side of things, since early Superman could attack him before he could react, but he also reacts to Flashpoint Barry, who currently has scaling to main Barry, who keeps up with a more powerful Superman than the one who fought even full-power Zod

I know his profile addresses this with a "possibly higher" rating, but Low 6-B Zod made this still somewhat believable imo. 7-C Zod downscaling to main Flash doesn't really sit well with me and I feel like it should be removed entirely

It's just a small thing at the end of the day, though

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

7-C Zod might cause scaling issues on the speed side of things, since early Superman could attack him before he could react

Eh, Supes kinda catches him by surprise, and it's not like he's insanely above Sub-Rel either.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

7-C Zod might cause scaling issues on the speed side of things, since early Superman could attack him before he could react, but he also reacts to Flashpoint Barry, who currently has scaling to main Barry, who keeps up with a more powerful Superman than the one who fought even full-power Zod

I know his profile addresses this with a "possibly higher" rating, but Low 6-B Zod made this still somewhat believable imo. 7-C Zod downscaling to main Flash doesn't really sit well with me

It's just a small thing at the end of the day, though

This would cause problems regardless of his ap rating. Plus early Clark sneaked him anyways

 

[RanaProGamer]

Wait, weren’t these already addressed before, I could’ve sworn someone had databook scans that says the Supes and Zod were at the peak of their powers when they fought. And that Doomsday at his birth was stronger than prime Supes.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I could’ve sworn someone had databook scans that says the Supes and Zod were at the peak of their powers when they fought

Not a databook, but it's a VFX statement

And that Doomsday at his birth was stronger than prime Supes.

Oh, that could be useful if someone has it

 

[RanaProGamer]

Not a databook, but it's a VFX statement

Does this mean it’s valid or no?

Oh, that could be useful if someone has it

I’ll see if I can find it

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Does this mean it’s valid or no?

It was accepted in my CRT, so yes

I’ll see if I can find it

Thanks

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

This would cause problems regardless of his ap rating

So what do you think about it?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

So what do you think about it?

Since zod didn’t really fight early Clark, the speed stuff would really only apply to end of MoS clark and zod which isn’t a big deal since they both got stronger

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

the speed stuff would really only apply to end of MoS clark and zod which isn’t a big deal since they both got stronger

Which I'm still unsure about given that JL/BvS Superman is even more powerful, and that's who main Flash scales to, but not General Zod

But eh, that's not the proposal of this CRT. Depending on how this one goes, I might leave this discussion for another one, unless others want to continue it here

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ultimately it goes something like

• Superman -> Pre-Flight
• Superman -> Early MoS
• Superman is getting constantly stronger as stated by multiple guids
• World Engine feat -> Superman is nerfed but still getting stronger
• vs Zod -> Superman (while still weakened) is still superior to himself during the World Engine showing
• vs Doomsday -> Superman is weakened by Kryptonite at the start
• vs Doomsday v2 -> Superman might be weakened (Diana states that Steppenwolf > Doomsday), but in this case it doesn't mean much since Doomsday > Zod
• Justice League -> Peak Superman > Steppenwolf, but he's not "Can one shot" stronger. Just notably stronger

Overall I don't agree that no one can scale to Superman. It's just that they scale, for the most part, to a nerfed Superman or they simply scale to not instantly dying to Superman

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ultimately it goes something like

• Superman -> Pre-Flight
• Superman -> Early MoS
• Superman is getting constantly stronger as stated by multiple guids
• World Engine feat -> Superman is nerfed but still getting stronger
• vs Zod -> Superman (while still weakened) is still superior to himself during the World Engine showing
• vs Doomsday -> Superman is weakened by Kryptonite at the start
• vs Doomsday v2 -> Superman might be weakened (Diana states that Steppenwolf > Doomsday), but in this case it doesn't mean much since Doomsday > Zod
• Justice League -> Peak Superman > Steppenwolf, but he's not "Can one shot" stronger. Just notably stronger

Overall I don't agree that no one can scale to Superman. It's just that they scale, for the most part, to a nerfed Superman or they simply scale to not instantly dying to Superman

True but I don’t think they all deserve tier 6, and I still don’t see how DD is stronger then zod

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Which I'm still unsure about given that JL/BvS Superman is even more powerful, and that's who main Flash scales to, but not General Zod

But eh, that's not the proposal of this CRT. Depending on how this one goes, I might leave this discussion for another one, unless others want to continue it here

Ya we can discuss this at a later date

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I found this statement that the gene transformation is all about efficiency and it expands Zod's body to extreme physical abilities, which seems to indicate that Doomsday > Zod