DC Crisis Cosmology: Update — Source & Great Darkness

[Elizio33]

The New Gods run by Ram V introduced relevant information on the relationship between The Source and The Great Darkness.

The Source is a product of a self-referential void. The Great Darkness could only refer to itself through the presence of another. For total darkness can only be defined as an absence of light or life. The Source is thus pure information. The very first knowledge, untainted and incomprehensible ideas because it is all the meaning of everything at once.

This confirms once again that The Source is The Light, and as some of you may have already understood, this self-referential void is the Great Darkness.The Great Darkness is not just opposed to ideas or life, but to all existence.

This should be added to the Crisis Cosmology.

 

[Elizio33]

@Antvasima @VeryGoofyToddler2

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The New Gods run by Ram V introduced relevant information on the relationship between The Source and The Great Darkness.

The Source is a product of a self-referential void. The Great Darkness could only refer to itself through the presence of another. For total darkness can only be defined as an absence of light or life. The Source is thus pure information. The very first knowledge, untainted and incomprehensible ideas because it is all the meaning of everything at once.

This confirms once again that The Source is The Light, and as some of you may have already understood, this self-referential void is the Great Darkness.The Great Darkness is not just opposed to ideas or life, but to all existence.

This should be added to the Crisis Cosmology.

Seems good to me.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Small correction: Not so sure as to say that the self-referential void here is TGD, since the darkness is specifically differentiated from that void due to being incapable of 'self-referring.'

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Small correction: Not so sure as to say that the self-referential void here is TGD, since the darkness is specifically differentiated from that void due to being incapable of 'self-referring.'

The next sentence literally compliments that statement. Self-referential is referencing oneself by this the Darkness in contrast to the Light. It also predates the Light as a void of nothingness prior to being “darkness to light.” Self-referential is referring oneself to something else or else it wouldn’t be “referential” if there isn't a reference. This is hard to gauge just read the two sentences as one cohesive statement about the nature of the Darkness prior to and during the Light.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

The update is perfectly fine and consistent!

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Self-referential is referring oneself to something else or else it wouldn’t be “referential” if there isn't a reference.

That's not what self-reference means.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

To avoid any confusion. I'll just explain it a bit so we don't get any more misunderstanding.

Self-referential void:​

Self-referential just means;

making reference to itself or oneself.

It's an adjective which means it is meant to describe something. To which its describes the Great Darkness. You may have questions regarding the status of the Darkness being that.

Well, Ram V does an amazing job explaining it with the least words possible. To quote #1:

The Source is a product of a self-referential void.

The Source in the same scan is said to be the Light. The OP mentions the scan from Flash that the Source and Light are one.

If we go back to Crisis on Infinite Earths or even the more recent story called Justice League Incarnate. You would notice that “everything and nothing” were one because everything was nothing and it remained that way for a long time.

You may ask “What's your point?” Well, the Darkness himself said the Light was born in defiance of him which compliments the idea the Source came from the Dark which means it can be considered a “product” of the Darkness as a stand-in for self-referential.

This part was easy to understand. So let's move on to the next. In #2 it was said that:

A theoretical antithesis—-uncreation, the absence of ideas. Not in opposition to life, but in opposition to existence.

Earlier, we see that the Source is pure information and untainted idea which the Darkness lacks. This is important because the “opposition” of existence is well….non-existence. When only the term “darkness” was made when the Source itself came from the dark to give it definition.

Void just means lacking material, the Great Darkness not only lacked material but all forms of description that were applied to the Source; life, creation, ideas, etc….so it was by it”self” where the reference of anything was nothing but it.

Also, The Light as we have seen in Justice League Incarnate is the Overvoid. Hence, the Multiversity story reference of “immaculate perfection” and the “whiteness” of the Light/Overvoid.

The Flash series is shown above shows the Light and Source are one.

Morrison always had said the Void was God or the Source. Which he drew the Multiversity Map saying everything outside the Multiverse was only the Source.

Isn't it Overvoid?​

Ignoring all the evidence above. It would also fail given it gave itself meaning and definition to contrast with the Flaw.

That's not what self-reference means.

It does. If you're going to be dense and pretend you don't have reading comprehension then sure. Since the definition of self-reference is to reference oneself. In this case, the Darkness was once by itself as any form of anything can only be referenced as the nothing. Then the Source came and it became “darkness to light.”

 

[Weaver261]

I agree. This is quite a simple concept to understand if you properly followed DC cosmology.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I agree. This is quite a simple concept to understand if you properly followed DC cosmology.

A very simple concept that some people like to ignore due to the hard hardness. I can guarantee you, anyone, with comic knowledge knows that sentences are literally interconnected to each other. There's nothing other than the Darkness that can be the “self-referential void.” It was quite clear that they mentioned it being that due to the “Source” being absent for a time when the Darkness was purely a void of nothingness.

 

[Elizio33]

Small correction: Not so sure as to say that the self-referential void here is TGD, since the darkness is specifically differentiated from that void due to being incapable of 'self-referring.'

Following the narrative, The Source is a product of a self-referential void and right after, it says that The Great Darkness could only refer to itself through the presence of another. The author makes this even clearer and mentions that total darkness can only be defined as an absence of light.

This corresponds to Alan Moore's Swamp Thing in which the Great Darkness stated that before the Light, it was endless and nameless and did not need a name. Then the Light came and the Great Darkness had its first knowledge of self. Sounds familiar ?

 

[Elizio33]

This might be off-topic but i wanted to share my thoughts on relationships between The Source and The Presence.

In the beginning, before the before, there was The Presence, also known as "The Creator" or "God", and with his voice he brought forth The Light from The Great Darkness which until then was a nameless void of darkness having no need of a name. He uttered the words: "let there be light!" and there was light which made the Great Darkness suffering its first knowledge of self.

Although the Presence has no real form since he is one with The Void beyond mortals, demigods, gods, the war between light and darkness, all obstacles according to Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, he does have emanations through which he speaks and acts. The most common emanation of The Presence is The Voice, also defined as "The Word", which resides in Heaven and empowers beings like the Angels, the Spectre, Radiant, and Phantom Stranger.

The Source has been referred to interchangeably with The Presence in Death Metal. While this suggests that the two entities are the same, it does not necessarily rule out the possibility that The Source may be the same with an emanation of The Presence. There are examples that support this such as The Source being a manifestation of The Creator's power, The Source being The Word in the New 52 era, and past stories have mentioned The Source as being the one behind the gates of Heaven, the Godwave which is highly related to The Source being referred to as the power of The Presence, and more recent stories have associated The Source with The Light. This does not mean that the Source is limited to Heaven or anything, for it encompasses and transcends all of Creation.

My personal view is that The Source is a manifestation of The Presence's power that brought light from the darkness and that The Word, The Source, The Light are the same entity that is part of a truer God. After all, it was a manifestation of the hand of God, representing The Light, that came down from Heaven to unite with the Great Darkness and The Voice/Word, the most common emanation of The Presence residing in Heaven and commanding the Angels and the Spectre that was called The Source.