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DC Comics Discussion Thread

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Spoilers up Ahead:


It's been confirmed, or at least implied, that the sword that Gabriel used to kill The Presence was made by The Presence himself.

Also, Michael Demiurgos has been resurrected.
 
Never really went deep into comics. I want to give it a try to get into this. Following :^)

So Readcomics.to....interesting. Unfortunately it does not work for me, is there one on the computer version?
 
@Matthew Where do you think their stats should be?

Lucifer doesn't have his morningstar powers any more so he is just a physical being but he has been able to interact with higher dimensions.The closest thing i can think of his case is a regular human who although lacks any reality wrapping abilities should be infinite times stronger than a 2 dimensional being.So i think Lucifer, Gabriel and Mazikeen should be around Complex Multiverse level (with Mazikeen being close to High 1-C since she has Lucifers powers, though she isn't that good at using them).
 
I will wait for the next two issues and the battle against Yahweh.

Lucifer should be at least as strong as regular 2-C to 2-A Archangels (They scale to Spectre, and Azazel who is >>>>>>>> DC Odin)

Mazikeen should be Lucifer level, but she isn't very well written in power so far.

Also note that the Demiurgic and Morningstar Powers only give Michael and Lucifer immense powers, not increase their dimension. Lucifer is probably Gabriel level, who is also a 11D being but would be like a "human" 11D, while Lucifer and Michael at their peak would be Immensely Powerful "Superhuman" 11Ds
 
Does Azazel have any feats?

I know that they only recieve more power, not dimensions but since their power is unknown i thought it would be better just to add them as regular 1-C (to show the difference in power).

What i don't understand is why the Presence changed so much and how Gabriel did all this without him knowing.Was the Presence controlling him?Or is it something else?
 
Azazel scared the shit of all the gods that were on Dream's reunion, some of which like Odin should be Universal+

1-C Lucifer and Gabriel as they are now could work, but Iunno.

Elaine Belloc said that Gods reform and change when they die, and The Presence came back wrong. Was also implied that it was all Yahweh's own doing, that they were manipulated by him and Gabriel wielded a sword made by The Presence.

I think that what has emerged isn't The Presence, but The Great Evil Beast. They once fused in a Swamp Thing 80s Storyline and became one being.
 
I see, well we can also ask Ant about their current stats.

It does resemble a more dark and evil being so i guess you may be correct, we will find out soon.
 
Kkapoios said:
I see, well we can also ask Ant about their current stats.
It does resemble a more dark and evil being so i guess you may be correct, we will find out soon.
Click to expand...
Ant isn't a big DC Fan, though, he is more of a Marvel guy.
 
I have read the issue, and The Presence was still badly damaged by Gabriel, even if he was not permanently killed, so I think that his High 1-C rating should stay. However, we probably have to adjust the wording in his page.
 
I agree with High 1-C Mazikeen Morningstar, but I am unsure about Fallen Angel Gabriel. He should be at least comparable to Base Archangels and Seraphs, who are sometimes portrayed on the level of Multiversal Gods, and scale from Odin and Azazel.
 
Well Gabriel stopped Raphael's sword while Raphael was overpowering a weakened Lucifer and they already exist in a higher dimension, also once Lucifer got rid of the blakc metal (which easily obliderated Azazel) he could fight his son who could also fight Mazikeen (although that was because of some hax he had which allowed to him to be unharmed by anything hell related).
 
Well, High level angels are at least 4th Dimensional. They can cross universes, are portrayed as superior to the various lesser deities in the Season of Mists storyline, in Books of Magic Archangels are depicted as Eternity-esque beings who are living universes, and in the JLA Storylin where Cronus gets the power of all the Gods he only invades the Silver City after obtained the power of the Multiversal Hindu Gods. So Likely 2-B or 2-A for Base Archangels is what I'd accept.
 
It's in the Sphere of the Gods, so it is in the 4th Dimension above. It's also portrayed as residing above the Universe / Local Multiverse. The problem is that Low to Mid-tier angels such as Zauriel are not Universe busters and such. So I'd only scale to Archangels and Seraphs.
 
I'd also like to make a profile for The Voice / The Godhead. I.E, the aspect of The Presence who communicates with the Angels and The Spectre. He should be High 2-A at a minum, though I feel Tier 1 would also work. I'd have to research it, though.
 
I think the Spectre was high 1-C once for putting up a fight against Michael but in the story Michael wasn't as powerful or something like that.

I have no problem with rating Archangels and Seraphs as 2-B or 2-A but it seems weird for beings like Raphael, Metatron, weakened Gabriel and Lucifer to be that much below Michael. Mazikeen and Lucifer with his powers.As noted by DarkLK they don't get more dimensions nor they lose them and they can still be on the same tier while being nothing comperable to what they were before.
 
I think that Kkapoios and DarkLK make sense.

However, it should be noted that we cannot power-scale the Spectre to Michael, due to extreme inconsistency between the storylines.

The Spectre is usually easily defeated by 5-D imps, and had serious trouble with the Anti-Monitor.
 
Well, it's comics, and they're very inconsistent (Although DC and Vertigo are notably vastly less inconsistent than Marvel)

If I remember correctly, The Spectre was either unbound by any restriction and / or fused with The Godhead. But yes, Michael wasn't portrayed as being one of the two / three special Demiurgic Archangels back then.
 
My approach:

Angels / Fallen Angels who appear in Mainstream DC Comics, such as Zauriel, Linda Danvers, Asmodel, Satanus and the like have to be judged solely on their feats, specially since they are often portrayed as comparable to the likes of Superman.

Angels who don't interfere with Earth, and seem to be of higher importance and / or, only reside in the Silver City shouldn't be given profiles, specially since they are inconsistent and hardly important. Remiel and Duma should scale to Archdemons like Azazel and Beelzebub, since they are capable of rulling hell and maintaining the demons there, and also how they were so far above Odin, but I don't think we should give them profiles.

Archangels are Seraphs are 2-B or 2-A, but aside from Raphael none of them are notable enough.

The three main Archangels are High 1-C.
 
It is likely best to avoid listing any statistics that we are too uncertain about.
 
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