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DC Comics Discussion Thread

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@Matthew alright.

@Ant The problem with that approach is that it seems a bit lazy and we have an idea of where should their stats be (2-B to High 1-C)
 
As DarkLK mentioned, High 1-C/11-D is an extremely wide tier. Even weakened, there is no reason to believe that Lucifer would be a mere 2-B based on pure guesswork, when he is able to interact with other beings near his old level.
 
Where did the supposed 2-B ranking even come from? Anybody of that scale would be so much less than a microbe to any High 1-C being, that it is unfathomable.

As I mentioned above, placing the tiers with that wide a margin would look like unprofessional guesswork.
 
Anyway, regular Archangels do not, in any way shape or form, scale to Lucifer and Michael at their peak.
 
Well, again, one High 1-C being can easily be as powerful compared to another, as a 3-A is to a 10-C.

I think that we should avoid creating any profiles for which we have no idea how they should be rated.

Quality over quantity ensures that we run less of a risk of embarrassing ourselves.
 
Yeah. I think Gabriel at his peak is like a 10-B when comparabed to Michael and Lucifer's "3-A".

But all three are Demiurgic Archangels, they shaped the Multiverse for Yahweh. Regular Archangels are much younger and weaker beings (10 Billion Years or so).

I may do a profile for Raphael if he has any feats, but for now it's best to leave it as it is.
 
That is probably best. We should not be overzealous with creating lots of unnecessary profiles.
 
Raphael did overpower a weakened Lucifer and killed Metatron (while the later was able to fight and overpower Gabriel who could damage weakened lucifer).I think it's safe to at least place them as 1-C.We could also wait until we see Michael in action and how the others deal with him.(although i don't know how often the chapters come out so it might take a while)

EDIT: @Ant this isn't only about creating new profiles, these changes also affect already existing profiles (Lucifer's and Gabriel's)
 
Well, we should probably only list their statistics at their respective peaks in order to be on the safe side.
 
But these are different forms, and they have some feats even in these states.I'll post a few links in a bit.
 
Raphael fighting Lucifer http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/5

http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/6

The black metal that was inside Lucifer easily obliderates Azazel (who is Multi Universal) http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/7

http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/8

Gabriel flying to Silver city to confront Metatron http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/13

http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/14

Gabriel falls from heaven (a higher dimension) and survives without much trouble http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/15

http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-5/16

Mazikeen fights with Takehiko while she has Lucifer's power http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-9/15

Takehiko's monster form attacks Lucifer http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-9/21

Mazikeen restrains Takehiko http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-10/6

He turns back into his human form and Lucifer impales him http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-10/7

Mazikeen attacks Lucifer http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-10/8

But their fight is interrupted http://www.readcomics.tv/lucifer-2016/chapter-10/9
 
Well, DC writers generally care as little about coherent logical power-scaling as the Marvel writers do, which is why we should probably not use it for Takehiko and the like, simply because they are allowed to inconvenience infinite beings within this story.
 
Hence, fewer, but more reliable, profiles tends to be better to not publicly embarrass ourselves in front of tens of thousands of people.
 
I agree with Antvasima. People like Takehiko and Raphael are hardly portrayed as being on the level of full power Lucifer and Michael.
 
Yes. Basically, less is more in this case.
 
However, I think Antvasima occasionally exaggerates how inconsistent comics are. Marvel is indeed ridiculously nonsensical and inconsistent, but DC seems to be a bit more in line, and Vertigo even more so.
 
No, DC is likely almost as inconsistent. Roughly the same writers tend to work there at different points in their careers. It is just less obvious, given their lack of handbook statistics.
 
Antvasima said:
No, DC is likely almost as inconsistent. Roughly the same writers tend to work there at different points in their careers. It is just less obvious, given their lack of handbook statistics.
Click to expand...
DC doesn't use Handbook Statistics that contradict feats.

Since DC tends to have the whole "Superheroes as Gods" thing, Superman, Wonder Woman and the like are almost always portrayed as immensely powerful, rather than Thor and Hulk who many times are written as Tier 8.

DC actually has a cosmology map and has tried organizing their continuity.

And DC's God Tiers are vastly less inconsistent, since they either don't have many appearances and don't focus on fighting, or are Vertigo and are thus handled only by a few writers

It's still incredibly inconsistent, but not as much as Marvel.
 
Okay. Not as much as Marvel, granted, but Dream was still portrayed as barely universal in strength in his most recent appearance, and Superman is still recurrently portrayed as Large Building level in power, when the plot convenience calls for it.
 
The Dream thing is just because they often treat Universe and Multiverse as the same thing in Vertigo. I've seen a Sandman / Lucifer scan where they talk about the Universe's timelines.

Edit: Also, Sandman and Lucifer aren't action comics, they hardly care about Power levels. Which admittedly, can lead to the inconsistencies seen in Lucifer 2015.
 
Well, the 5D imps are also sometimes treated as beyond multiversal infinite entities, and sometimes as pushovers that need to be saved by the JSA, or are almost tortured to death by Superboy Prime.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, the 5D imps are also sometimes treated as beyond multiversal infinite entities, and sometimes as pushovers that need to be saved by the JSA, or are almost tortured to death by Superboy Prime.
Click to expand...
Oh, true. That's writer stupidity too, while most do write the 5th Dimension as a spatial one, others treat it just as a realm or universe.
 
Probably not. Lobdell said that Superman did not fight the Oracle directly.
 
So, Lucifer #11 came out.

Lots of interesting things happened.

Elaine said she's not helping Lucifer and others with destroying "that thing" calling itself God, because she'd rather remain in her own creation.

She gave Lucifer his Morningstar powers back, though. She also said she was Omnipotent in the narration and also Omniscient, though later admitted she cannot know what goes in the minds of other gods. Goes to show how much the writers understand their characters' powers. I dunno if the Omniscient part only means The Presence or other 1-A DC beings apply.

Michael took Lucifer's son from hell and he's going to be exalted to be God's left hand. So he'll prolly get a "Likely 1-A" key.

I don't know if Elaine simply used her Godly powers to give Lucifer new Morningstar powers or she took them from Mazikeen and gave them to him. I assume the former.

Anyway, we also got this . This is adorable.

Next month will be the conclusion of the arc. I have no idea how they'll resolve a fight with God with the entire multiverse at stakes in one issue.
 
Yes. It does seem like a hasty conclusion.
 
The current writer is wasting her 13th and last issue on a Holiday Special. I'd much rather she focused on a good conclusion. But I'll see. The comic has been okay so far, and I imagine it will resolve in an unexpected way that will not involve a direct confrontation.
 
Again. Ughhhhh

Well, Lucifer should be back at 1-A correct? Since he has his Morningstar powers again. (They should really expand on that concept).

Also: Michael's back!
 
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