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DBS Tier 2 Scaling Chain [besides Infinite Zamasu]
- Thread starter The_2nd_Existential_Seed
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So...Are we going to get 2-C Goku or are we sticking to Low 2-C? I've seen/heard that people want to get Goku up to that tier. I haven't read all the replies here becuase it's late and I'm tired, but just thought I'd ask.
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Shouldn't Goku be 2-C by scaling and statements anyway? Jiren being above the GoDs and all and UI Goku blitzing him then getting boosts on top of that seems like it deserves a bump up if Gogeta got one.ZERO7772 said:
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Goku could be 2-C based on some things, like if Zamasu's blog gets accepted. If that happens, Goku would absolutely be 2-C.
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Aside from angels, the only one character who 2-C is Gogeta sadly. It will start a shit show if we upgrade Goku.
Shouldn't Goku be 2-C by scaling and statements anyway? Jiren being above the GoDs and all and UI Goku blitzing him then getting boosts on top of that seems like it deserves a bump up if Gogeta got one.
The requirements for 2-C now is being twice the strength of Beerus/Champa, something Goku never proved
Shouldn't Goku be 2-C by scaling and statements anyway? Jiren being above the GoDs and all and UI Goku blitzing him then getting boosts on top of that seems like it deserves a bump up if Gogeta got one.
The requirements for 2-C now is being twice the strength of Beerus/Champa, something Goku never proved
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Goku scales higher than Gogeta if you add Beerus into the GoDs that can't defeat Jiren, and I don't see why Beerus would be excluded from this statement anyway, only for Goku to do to Jiren what Gogeta did to Broly and he got boosts after that. Seems weird to me.
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The whole "Jiren is above all gods" is w@nk at best. Not to mention the GoD level can be a vast one.
GoD Toppo was stated to be just like a GoD, he then got crushed by SSBE Vegeat, who got crushed by serious Jiren, who got crushed by MUI Goku, who is stated to be around beerus level in many DB media.
Jiren only scales above his own god, a direct comparison between him and Beerus was never made
GoD Toppo was stated to be just like a GoD, he then got crushed by SSBE Vegeat, who got crushed by serious Jiren, who got crushed by MUI Goku, who is stated to be around beerus level in many DB media.
Jiren only scales above his own god, a direct comparison between him and Beerus was never made
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Jiren doesn't scale to his own GoD, he's only stated to be stronger than Belmod in the manga by Toppo. In the anime it's said he's the mortal A God of destruction cannot defeat, it's safe to assume not one God can beat him 1v1 on power alone. I do agree the God scale is vast though since G Frieza withstood Sidras hakai,it wasn't full power but it was surely enough that he thought would kill them, but Jiren was said to be above the Gods in general.ZERO7772 said:
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the bold is as speculative as you can get. and jiren at his best in 130 (before his hidden power) was not getting blitz and stomped like his 129 self, and was holding on against goku a bit. so disregarding the fact that beerus was never compared to any of this guys, if jiren and MUI goku still outclass broly by a decent amount, that just gets goku to be comparable to gogeta, not above.EucliCantEatOranges said:
and even tho i dont trust any magazine wen talking about power, one magazine compared gokus MUI (yes it was MUI if you read the entire paragraph, instead of looking at a picture) to be probably above beerus, same statement broly got.
and going back to the bolded, adding beerus to the mix doesnt even equal goku > gogeta, conscidering gogeta stomps beerus while laughing like he did to broly.
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Wank even though it's accepted on Jiren's profile that he's beyond the GoDs? And the statement that Jiren's the strongest foe in Dragon Ball history would put him above Beerus?ZERO7772 said:
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There's still the fact that Jiren being stated as the strongest foe in Dragon Ball history would put him above Beerus.
You mean a limit broken SSG that was much stronger than he was at the beginning of the Tournament, as Ultra Instinct is consistently shown to make Goku's normal transformations stronger every time he's unlocked it?
You mean a limit broken SSG that was much stronger than he was at the beginning of the Tournament, as Ultra Instinct is consistently shown to make Goku's normal transformations stronger every time he's unlocked it?
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IIRC Jiren got knocked against the wall and was forced to break his limits after Goku hit him twice after the 129 blitz, not sure so don't quote me on it.
There's also a magazine that states Jiren is the mightiest foe in DB history, this would include Beerus, they contradict one another all the time.
Wasn't gogeta stated to have shown a hint of his power against FP LSSJ Broly in the LN? I don't think the gap between the two is as big as some people make it out to be personally as you don't need to be that much stronger than someone to stomp them in DB.
Well since Jiren and Broly are both above the Gods,if you want to say Jiren is only above Belmod then you have to remember that Belmod did beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match, now I know that's not much but it's better than nothing.
The bolded was added to state that by scaling, Goku scales higher.
UI Goku rage boosted>UI Goku after his speech >Limit break Jiren>UI Goku>Jiren>Beerus(with certainty as it was stated multiple times that he's above the gods and surpassed them)>=<Broly(He's probably on that level,more than likely)
He scales pretty dang high
There's also a magazine that states Jiren is the mightiest foe in DB history, this would include Beerus, they contradict one another all the time.
Wasn't gogeta stated to have shown a hint of his power against FP LSSJ Broly in the LN? I don't think the gap between the two is as big as some people make it out to be personally as you don't need to be that much stronger than someone to stomp them in DB.
Well since Jiren and Broly are both above the Gods,if you want to say Jiren is only above Belmod then you have to remember that Belmod did beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match, now I know that's not much but it's better than nothing.
The bolded was added to state that by scaling, Goku scales higher.
UI Goku rage boosted>UI Goku after his speech >Limit break Jiren>UI Goku>Jiren>Beerus(with certainty as it was stated multiple times that he's above the gods and surpassed them)>=<Broly(He's probably on that level,more than likely)
He scales pretty dang high
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>There's still the fact that Jiren being stated as the strongest foe in Dragon Ball history would put him above Beerus.
If you by promo magazine Jiren would be weaker than normal SSJ Broly.
>You mean a limit broken SSG that was much stronger than he was at the beginning of the Tournament,
Headcanon created by fans. There was no induction what so ever that Goku got a boost in power after the first UIO.
If you by promo magazine Jiren would be weaker than normal SSJ Broly.
>You mean a limit broken SSG that was much stronger than he was at the beginning of the Tournament,
Headcanon created by fans. There was no induction what so ever that Goku got a boost in power after the first UIO.
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Wouldn't breaking his limits automatically make him stronger when he left the form? He breaks his current limits to attain it so it's not too far fetched to say it sets him comfortably above his previous limits as he;s just shattered them.ZERO7772 said:
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"Headcanon created by fans. There was no induction what so ever that Goku got a boost in power after the first UIO, heck they kept telling us so many times that Goku was low on stamina."
> SSBKK x20 Goku (Post-UIO) is somewhat relative to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb, while SSBKK x20 Goku (Pre-UIO) is vastly inferior to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb. Ultra Instinct Omen 2 is stronger than Ultra Instinct Omen 1, despite being the same boost of power (unless you can prove otherwise). LSSJ Kale is consistently displayed at SSB-tier, and Post-UIO SSG Goku was able to fight a mastered LSSJ Kale. There absolutely is indication that the first UIO gave Goku a power boost.
> SSBKK x20 Goku (Post-UIO) is somewhat relative to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb, while SSBKK x20 Goku (Pre-UIO) is vastly inferior to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb. Ultra Instinct Omen 2 is stronger than Ultra Instinct Omen 1, despite being the same boost of power (unless you can prove otherwise). LSSJ Kale is consistently displayed at SSB-tier, and Post-UIO SSG Goku was able to fight a mastered LSSJ Kale. There absolutely is indication that the first UIO gave Goku a power boost.
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>There's still the fact that Jiren being stated as the strongest foe in Dragon Ball history would put him above Beerus.If you by promo magazine Jiren would be weaker than normal SSJ Broly.
It's pretty obvious that they're used to hype up the current main foe. Jiren being above Beerus is fine anyway since he's been stated more than once to be above the level of the GoDs.
It's pretty obvious that they're used to hype up the current main foe. Jiren being above Beerus is fine anyway since he's been stated more than once to be above the level of the GoDs.
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To be honest I just thought that Kale tanking the SSJB Kamehameha was PIS because it ignored all scaling and reason just to give a homage to Broly. Besides it's not like Kale hurt him...He got up moments later with a hard-on to fight Jiren.
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>Wouldn't breaking his limits automatically make him stronger when he left the form?
No because such thing was never stated in the show. The show kept driving home that Goku is tired and out of stamina which is why the girls had any shot with him. Yet people want us to believe that he's dozen of times stronger now.
No because such thing was never stated in the show. The show kept driving home that Goku is tired and out of stamina which is why the girls had any shot with him. Yet people want us to believe that he's dozen of times stronger now.
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But it was shown as he was contesting with Jiren in Blue rather casually, nearly knocked him out of the ring too, and if you want to take the Kale thing seriously, which I don't, then he beat a much stronger version of her in a form 50x weaker than the one he used to attack her.ZERO7772 said:
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Goku did get much stronger after UIO2 and he had plenty of times to rest and regain his power, I never denied that. I refuse to buy that he got 50+ times stronger after Jiren almost wasted his ass and he was running on some energy given to him by Freiza
>he beat a much stronger version of her in a form 50x weaker than the one he used to attack her.
It goes to show that she was never SSB Goku tier to begin with. Goku did not sustain any notable damaged and he wasn't really interested in her at all later on. He wasn't even afraid of Jiren who just one shot her, which IMO goes to show she was never a threat to him.
>he beat a much stronger version of her in a form 50x weaker than the one he used to attack her.
It goes to show that she was never SSB Goku tier to begin with. Goku did not sustain any notable damaged and he wasn't really interested in her at all later on. He wasn't even afraid of Jiren who just one shot her, which IMO goes to show she was never a threat to him.
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>he beat a much stronger version of her in a form 50x weaker than the one he used to attack her.
It goes to show that she was never SSB Goku tier to begin with. Goku did not sustain any notable damaged and he wasn't really interested in her at all later on. He wasn't even afraid of Jiren who just one shot her, which IMO goes to show she was never a threat to him.
Read my previous comments I said the same thing pretty much, PIS for a homage, I only mentioned it because someone else brought it up as a main point. But Goku did get stronger. Also why are we even talking about this? We should be talking about UI Goku being 2-C!
It goes to show that she was never SSB Goku tier to begin with. Goku did not sustain any notable damaged and he wasn't really interested in her at all later on. He wasn't even afraid of Jiren who just one shot her, which IMO goes to show she was never a threat to him.
Read my previous comments I said the same thing pretty much, PIS for a homage, I only mentioned it because someone else brought it up as a main point. But Goku did get stronger. Also why are we even talking about this? We should be talking about UI Goku being 2-C!
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"I refuse to buy that he got 50+ times stronger after Jiren almost wasted his ass and he was running on some energy given to him by Freiza"
> You can refuse to believe it all you want, it doesn't change that Goku is shown to be stronger after the first Ultra Instinct Omen and it falls in line with UIO2 and UIO3 making Goku stronger. What exactly makes you think UIO1 is different from them, despite it being shown to work the same way?
"It goes to show that she was never SSB Goku tier to begin with"
> Jiren could block Pre-UIO SSG Goku's punches with one finger, he used a Power Impact to take out Kale.
> Both SSB Vegeta and Toppo were impressed with LSSJ Kale's power.
> Kale made Jiren flinch during his meditation, something SSB Vegeta and Toppo failed to do.
> And of course the actual fight with SSB Goku.
She was absolutely SSB tier before Goku broke his limits.
> You can refuse to believe it all you want, it doesn't change that Goku is shown to be stronger after the first Ultra Instinct Omen and it falls in line with UIO2 and UIO3 making Goku stronger. What exactly makes you think UIO1 is different from them, despite it being shown to work the same way?
"It goes to show that she was never SSB Goku tier to begin with"
> Jiren could block Pre-UIO SSG Goku's punches with one finger, he used a Power Impact to take out Kale.
> Both SSB Vegeta and Toppo were impressed with LSSJ Kale's power.
> Kale made Jiren flinch during his meditation, something SSB Vegeta and Toppo failed to do.
> And of course the actual fight with SSB Goku.
She was absolutely SSB tier before Goku broke his limits.
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Also base Goku being above a drained G Frieza and android 17.
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Nope. Kale is fodder to SSB tier and that segment goes against everything established later on in the arc. Jiren got off his ass for LSSJ Kale but he didn't even bother looking at LSSJ Kefla who was hundred of times stronger than Kale. Freiza was also very confident on taking kale despite getting much stronger than we she stomped SSB Goku who was his equel just before ToP.
>Also base Goku being above a drained G Frieza and android 17.
PIS. Base Frieza was doing just as good as base Goku despite his golden form just getting trashed a moment ago.
>Also base Goku being above a drained G Frieza and android 17.
PIS. Base Frieza was doing just as good as base Goku despite his golden form just getting trashed a moment ago.
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I ******* hate dragon ball sometimes. It's Nigh-impossible to scale sometimes and when you do HAVE something it doesn't count.
Also I'm pretty sure Jiren wiped the floor with Kale because she went berserk and was taking out everyone, while the second time she mastered it in like 5 seconds.
Also I'm pretty sure Jiren wiped the floor with Kale because she went berserk and was taking out everyone, while the second time she mastered it in like 5 seconds.
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I gave four things showing that she's Pre-UIO SSB tier, what exactly do you have against that, and what do you have that says she's absolute fodder to SSB tiers? Frieza's cocky as all hell, him being confident in taking on Kale doesn't mean that he could actually do so. Kefla was in the middle of her fight with Goku, why exactly would Jiren get up and interrupt that?ZERO7772 said:
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Most of what you listed is irrelevant and can throw back at you.
Why does it matter how Jiren took out Kale? Jiren didn't use any power impact agianst UI Goku, does that means she's stronger than 1UIO Goku?
>Both SSB Vegeta and Toppo were impressed with LSSJ Kale's power.
So what? Barely anyone bat her an eye when she powerd up to LSSJ2. This is like saying SSBKK Goku was stronger than Beerus cuz he "shocked" him. Characters reactions are one the weakest arguments you could come up with in DB.
>Kale made Jiren flinch during his meditation, something SSB Vegeta and Toppo failed to do.
Again, Jiren's reaction is irrelevant. He barely flinched to LSSJ2 Kefla who was way WAY stronger than Kale.
>And of course the actual fight with SSB Goku.
Goku was holding back and he didn't sustain any notable damage
Why does it matter how Jiren took out Kale? Jiren didn't use any power impact agianst UI Goku, does that means she's stronger than 1UIO Goku?
>Both SSB Vegeta and Toppo were impressed with LSSJ Kale's power.
So what? Barely anyone bat her an eye when she powerd up to LSSJ2. This is like saying SSBKK Goku was stronger than Beerus cuz he "shocked" him. Characters reactions are one the weakest arguments you could come up with in DB.
>Kale made Jiren flinch during his meditation, something SSB Vegeta and Toppo failed to do.
Again, Jiren's reaction is irrelevant. He barely flinched to LSSJ2 Kefla who was way WAY stronger than Kale.
>And of course the actual fight with SSB Goku.
Goku was holding back and he didn't sustain any notable damage
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"Why does it matter how Jiren took out Kale? Jiren didn't use any power impact agianst UI Goku, does that means she's stronger than 1UIO Goku?"
> You entirely missed the point. Jiren used more effort to take out Kale than he did against Super Saiyan God Goku.
"So what? Barely anyone bat her an eye when she powerd up to LSSJ2. This is like saying SSBKK Goku was stronger than Beerus cuz he "shocked" him. Characters reactions are one the weakest arguments you could come up with in DB."
> There's a difference between shock and being impressed. Both SSB Vegeta and Toppo thought Kale's power was admirable. That supports her being on a similar tier of power to them. Not stronger, as you seem to think I'm implying.
"Again, Jiren's reaction is irrelevant. He barely flinched to LSSJ2 Kefla who was way WAY stronger than Kale."
> Jiren was already shown flinching to Kale, why would they show him flinching to Kefla as well? That would be redundant.
"Goku was holding back and he didn't sustain any notable damage."
> Goku was in pain after LSSJ Kale unleashed her energy, actually.
So, again, what exactly do you have to say Kale is utterly fodder to SSB tiers?
> You entirely missed the point. Jiren used more effort to take out Kale than he did against Super Saiyan God Goku.
"So what? Barely anyone bat her an eye when she powerd up to LSSJ2. This is like saying SSBKK Goku was stronger than Beerus cuz he "shocked" him. Characters reactions are one the weakest arguments you could come up with in DB."
> There's a difference between shock and being impressed. Both SSB Vegeta and Toppo thought Kale's power was admirable. That supports her being on a similar tier of power to them. Not stronger, as you seem to think I'm implying.
"Again, Jiren's reaction is irrelevant. He barely flinched to LSSJ2 Kefla who was way WAY stronger than Kale."
> Jiren was already shown flinching to Kale, why would they show him flinching to Kefla as well? That would be redundant.
"Goku was holding back and he didn't sustain any notable damage."
> Goku was in pain after LSSJ Kale unleashed her energy, actually.
So, again, what exactly do you have to say Kale is utterly fodder to SSB tiers?
My_area
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Like what?Jiren just used a ki blast and there goes Kale LSSJ knocked out cold its not as if Jiren was even putting any effort against Kale,Kale is SSG level at bestLordTracer said:
They were impressed ok and how does reaction alone tells you ablut their power when Kale was slightly inferior to SSG Goku later on anyway
What pain?? SSB Goku was still similing and without a scrach from any of Kale's attack
How does any of this prove that Kale is SSB level?
And please show me a statement where it says that SSG Goku got much stronger after UIO1 Goku?
My_area
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I agree with Zero7772
SSG Goku getting stronger after UIO is something made up by people here and head canon at best and so is Kale being SSB level nowhere did she show strength at this level not even LSSJ2 Kale who was stated to be stronger showed SSB level strength
Only evidence we have is SSB Goku getting stronger in ep 123 due to UIO as there was actually a statement and emphasis on it
SSG Goku getting stronger after UIO is something made up by people here and head canon at best and so is Kale being SSB level nowhere did she show strength at this level not even LSSJ2 Kale who was stated to be stronger showed SSB level strength
Only evidence we have is SSB Goku getting stronger in ep 123 due to UIO as there was actually a statement and emphasis on it
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"Like what?Jiren just used a ki blast and there goes Kale LSSJ knocked out cold its not as if Jiren was even putting any effort against Kale,Kale is SSG level at best"
> Can you prove Jiren didn't put any effort into it, especially when he only needed a single finger to block the attacks of SSG Goku yet used a legitimate attack on Kale?
"They were impressed ok and how does reaction alone tells you ablut their power when Kale was slightly inferior to SSG Goku later on anyway"
> Post-UIO SSG Goku that was stronger than he was at the beginning of the tournament. Now, why exactly would Vegeta be impressed if Kale wasn't at least somewhere around the SSB-tier?
"What pain?? SSB Goku was still similing and without a scrach from any of Kale's attack"
> Rewatch the scene. Goku's exact dialogue as he unearthed himself following Kale's rampage was; "Ow, ow," which he would not be saying if he was perfectly fine and took no damage from Kale. He was absolutely not smiling, Goku did not smile once the moment Kale started attacking him.
"SSG Goku getting stronger after UIO is something made up by people here and head canon at best and so is Kale being SSB level nowhere did she show strength at this level not even LSSJ2 Kale who was stated to be stronger showed SSB level strength"
> Would you like to explain why and show how UIO1 didn't break Goku's limits and make him stronger, yet every other time he went UIO it did?
> Can you prove Jiren didn't put any effort into it, especially when he only needed a single finger to block the attacks of SSG Goku yet used a legitimate attack on Kale?
"They were impressed ok and how does reaction alone tells you ablut their power when Kale was slightly inferior to SSG Goku later on anyway"
> Post-UIO SSG Goku that was stronger than he was at the beginning of the tournament. Now, why exactly would Vegeta be impressed if Kale wasn't at least somewhere around the SSB-tier?
"What pain?? SSB Goku was still similing and without a scrach from any of Kale's attack"
> Rewatch the scene. Goku's exact dialogue as he unearthed himself following Kale's rampage was; "Ow, ow," which he would not be saying if he was perfectly fine and took no damage from Kale. He was absolutely not smiling, Goku did not smile once the moment Kale started attacking him.
"SSG Goku getting stronger after UIO is something made up by people here and head canon at best and so is Kale being SSB level nowhere did she show strength at this level not even LSSJ2 Kale who was stated to be stronger showed SSB level strength"
> Would you like to explain why and show how UIO1 didn't break Goku's limits and make him stronger, yet every other time he went UIO it did?
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Whether or not Kale is blue level is irrelevant because ssj2 Goku couldn't do shit to her but was suddenly fighting on par with her later as an ssj2 even in her new form.
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