• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

DBS: Destruction of Planet Vegeta, Frieza Upgrade

Jaakor48

1,294
985
So this is the currently used calc for Frieza destroying planet Vegeta, it assumes that Vegeta is the size of earth, however this blog has now put forth a baseline for an average Planet in dragon ball using canon information

The calculation for planet Vegeta is identical with one except, the diameter used

This is the new value

The upgrade, if accepted takes the calc from 203.785214866 ronnatons of TNT High 5-A, (Dwarf Star Level ) to 14.82449109 quettatons of TNT (Low 4-C, Small Star level)
 
Last edited:
Roun12 said:
Not a calc member, but the increased diameter also increases the distance and thus the speed the debris travelled. It should look more like this:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Frieza Destroys Planet Vegeta - "Super"-sized

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Which bumps the value to 14.82449109 quettatons of TNT (Low 4-C, Small Star level)
Click to expand...
Oh yea, forgot about that part

I believe this blog should be the more accurate one to be evaluated
 
I'm not sure if I should be disagreeing with the new calc here or in a Content Revision Thread for it.

Mathematically the calc is correct but I don't agree with it replacing the one we currently have.
 
Roun12 said:
Not a calc member, but the increased diameter also increases the distance and thus the speed the debris travelled. It should look more like this:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Frieza Destroys Planet Vegeta - "Super"-sized

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Which bumps the value to 14.82449109 quettatons of TNT (Low 4-C, Small Star level)
Click to expand...
Why are we assuming that it's big as a Super Dragon Ball? Not every planet is the same in size, so arbitrarily applying it to Planet Vegeta for no reason seems foolish.

Edit: Nvm, didn't see the 1st scan. Wouldn't it bump Earth's size too?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Why are we assuming that it's big as a Super Dragon Ball? Not every planet is the same in size, so arbitrarily applying it to Planet Vegeta for no reason seems foolish.
Click to expand...

That's my main objection as well.

As far as I'm aware it's never stated that Vegeta is is average for a planet's size in the Dragon Ball world. Just because Frieza calls Earth a "small" planet doesn't therefore mean that every other planet in the Universe is bigger.

Not to mention that Champa doesn't even use the word "average" in his original statement, nor does his statement imply that the Super Dragon Balls are smaller than planets either.
 
Jaakor48 said:
No, earth is specifically called small,
Click to expand...
Yes - but it would be an Association fallacy to use this as proof that Vegeta (or Namek, or any other planet) is automatically average. Just because Earth is called "smalL" doesn't mean that any planet not explicitly called small on-screen is therefore average.

It'd be like a if a character was called "strong" but that label was never used explicitly for other characters so you assume that every single other character is average in comparison to the guy called strong. While this kind of conclusion is possible, it is unsupported and ultimately just conjecture.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

GBE of an Average Dragon Ball Panet

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
I think I the kanji in both the manga and anime scenes should be checked, Viz is weird with their translations sometimes so it could have the possibility of being "just as large as a plant" or "almost as large to be considered a planet". Both of these possibilities could alter the direction of this thread, either that or Viz was right and I got it checked for nothing
 
Damage3245 said:
That's my main objection as well.
Click to expand...
It's a good thing the first line in the calc shows why
Damage3245 said:
As far as I'm aware it's never stated that Vegeta is is average for a planet's size in the Dragon Ball world. Just because Frieza calls Earth a "small" planet doesn't therefore mean that every other planet in the Universe is bigger.
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be spoonfed to us, it's never called small and has 10x earth gravity, one of only 3 or so planets to show this,and it's never called particular dense, it takes far less assumptions and common sense to know that it would be bigger, we simply didn't have any wau to accurately upscale until we were told what an average planet's diameter is
Damage3245 said:
Not to mention that Champa doesn't even use the word "average" in his original statement,
Click to expand...
'it's almost as big as A PLANET' is a statement that is clearly referring to average planets in their universe especially as each of them are bigger than earth. In what world do you need to see the word average to know that statement is referring to the general group of the object?
Damage3245 said:
nor does his statement imply that the Super Dragon Balls are smaller than planets either.
Click to expand...
And this is outright ridiculous, "almost the size of" something literally means smaller. LITERALLY
Dark-Carioca said:
Does Freeza call it small? I remember Cold saying it, but admittedly Dodoria also called Namek small, so... I dunno.
Click to expand...
Cold called earth small, dodoria didn't call namek small, he said it wasn't too big, meaning it was average

Damage3245 said:
Yes - but it would be an Association fallacy to use this as proof that Vegeta (or Namek, or any other planet) is automatically average.
Click to expand...
Last I checked, the entire point of an average is that it represents all other variables. If the SDBs are smaller than an average planet, then it LITERALLY means majority of planets in dragon ball are at that size which is why earth is seen as small. Not to mention , planet Vegeta has 10x earth gravity, namek has 3 suns, there's far more proof that they are bigger than earth than otherwise.
Damage3245 said:
Just because Earth is called "smalL" doesn't mean that any planet not explicitly called small on-screen is therefore average.
Click to expand...
Earth being called small has nothing to do with other planets being average, it's because we have a BLATANT statement comparing the size of 'A planet' to the SDBs
Damage3245 said:
It'd be like a if a character was called "strong" but that label was never used explicitly for other characters so you assume that every single other character is average in comparison to the guy called strong. While this kind of conclusion is possible, it is unsupported and ultimately just conjecture.
Click to expand...
Now this is just a straight up misleading analogy here. Nobody is saying planets are Average because SDBs were called big (which is what this analogy implies), we have a literal statement from a reliable source comparing "A PLANET" to the SDBs, not 'that planet', not 'my planet', not 'large planet'. Do I really have to explain the use of the indefinite article there?

As for your analogy, here is the appropriate one; if a person had moon level AP and was said to be as strong as "A" captain in a verse, would you not scale basically any captain to that person's AP unless they showed otherwise?
If one said, Mr X is almost as dense as a General's Armour, assuming his density was 5000kg/m^3, would you not scale every general's armor to it unless proven otherwise?

Ednaxel2 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

GBE of an Average Dragon Ball Panet

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
I think I the kanji in both the manga and anime scenes should be checked, Viz is weird with their translations sometimes so it could have the possibility of being "just as large as a plant" or "almost as large to be considered a planet". Both of these possibilities could alter the direction of this thread, either that or Viz was right and I got it checked for nothing
Click to expand...
Just as large or almost as large than a planet would not change a thing, as it is the diameter of the SDBs themselves that was used, so unless the scans were so wrong thsh theu flipped it and the SDBs are actually bigger than a planet, ot would not affect anything
 
Doesn’t King Kai’s planet have 10x gravity? I don’t necessarily disagree with using the calc, but I’m not sure if that argument in particular really works.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Doesn’t King Kai’s planet have 10x gravity? I don’t necessarily disagree with using the calc, but I’m not sure if that argument in particular really works.
Click to expand...
His planet was artificially remade by him after Beerus nuked the initial one, it was originally much bigger
Not to mention his planet itself is also treated as an anomaly
 
Jaakor48 said:
And this is outright ridiculous, "almost the size of" something literally means smaller. LITERALLY
Click to expand...
It doesn't, it can also means bigger. All it really means is "not the exact same size as".

Jaakor48 said:
It doesn't have to be spoonfed to us, it's never called small and has 10x earth gravity, one of only 3 or so planets to show this,and it's never called particular dense, it takes far less assumptions and common sense to know that it would be bigger, we simply didn't have any wau to accurately upscale until we were told what an average planet's diameter is
Click to expand...
It doesn't take less assumptions and a defense of "common sense" doesn't work as an argument.

Jaakor48 said:
Last I checked, the entire point of an average is that it represents all other variables. If the SDBs are smaller than an average planet, then it LITERALLY means majority of planets in dragon ball are at that size which is why earth is seen as small. Not to mention , planet Vegeta has 10x earth gravity, namek has 3 suns, there's far more proof that they are bigger than earth than otherwise.
Click to expand...
What does three suns have to do with the planet being bigger?

Jaakor48 said:
Now this is just a straight up misleading analogy here. Nobody is saying planets are Average because SDBs were called big (which is what this analogy implies), we have a literal statement from a reliable source comparing "A PLANET" to the SDBs, not 'that planet', not 'my planet', not 'large planet'. Do I really have to explain the use of the indefinite article there?

As for your analogy, here is the appropriate one; if a person had moon level AP and was said to be as strong as "A" captain in a verse, would you not scale basically any captain to that person's AP unless they showed otherwise?
If one said, Mr X is almost as dense as a General's Armour, assuming his density was 5000kg/m^3, would you not scale every general's armor to it unless proven otherwise?
Click to expand...

The poiny of the analogy is that just because Earth is the only one labelled small doesn't mean the other ones should all be assumed to be "average". There is fundamentally nothing actually proving that Planet Vegeta has the diameter you're using. You're just assuming it.
 
I do not think there is any issue with assuming Vegeta is the size of a regular planet. For one, Earth is described as very small by many characters and it significantly smaller than a Super Dragon Ball which in turn is smaller than the average Dragon Ball planet. Also, Vegeta being a planet with 10 times Earth's gravity is a face value statement; I know that statement in itself means little given King Kai's planet. But that's also described as "Very small but condensed with great density." Density of planet Vegeta is never specific but the soil and such is similar to Earth's. And while it has little relevance here, the Toei version of Vegeta does have a much larger size where Vegeta is bigger than Jupiter. But that does give the impression that a larger portrayal is a leaned intended portrayal which assuming it's average size is the reasonable middle. Plus I never agreed with using the 200 Ronnatons end given how "Limited context that lowballs it" it was. And like all planet busting calculations, it's quite a bit lowballed due to using average velocity as opposed to initial velocity.

So in other words, I still think this new end should be fine to use.
 
Damage3245 said:
It doesn't, it can also means bigger. All it really means is "not the exact same size as".
Click to expand...
No damage this is just blatantly false. If what you said was true champa could’ve said “they’re even bigger than planets” or something like “most planets are barely this size”. He says none of that but instead said that these wish orbs are almost (but not quite) the size of planets which necessarily means that they’re smaller than a planet. I’m sorry but no stretch of champa’s statement comes even close to the forced (wrong) conclusion that you’re drawing. If they were slightly bigger than an average planet then champa is actually either stupid or extremely pedantic for saying that they’re “almost the size of planets”
Damage3245 said:
It doesn't take less assumptions and a defense of "common sense" doesn't work as an argument.
Click to expand...
it does actually because the other assumptions that it’s smaller or bigger than average have a much heavier burden of proof. As DDM said there’s absolutely nothing wrong in assuming that Planet Vegeta is at least average sized. At worst you equivalently lack the evidence to prove that it’s smaller than average
Damage3245 said:
The poiny of the analogy is that just because Earth is the only one labelled small doesn't mean the other ones should all be assumed to be "average". There is fundamentally nothing actually proving that Planet Vegeta has the diameter you're using. You're just assuming it.
Click to expand...
They can be assumed to be average and you haven’t given a reason as to why they can’t and no one but you has a problem with that it’s a safe assumption with as little headcanon as possible.

Really the only “assumption” in this thread is that planet Vegeta is average sized which pretty much everyone agrees is a safe bet with nothing to suggest against it the rest of the calc is just predicated on a very simple logical implication of champa’s statement
 
I don't agree with the objections presented, honestly. While it's fair to apply a reasonable degree of scrutiny to something like this, the objections go beyond that reasonable level and just don't really hold up all that well in my opinion. I'll leave an evaluation on the calc blog as well.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I don't agree with the objections presented, honestly. While it's fair to apply a reasonable degree of scrutiny to something like this, the objections go beyond that reasonable level and just don't really hold up all that well in my opinion. I'll leave an evaluation on the calc blog as well.
Click to expand...
This would be the most recent version of the updated calculation fyi
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I do not think there is any issue with assuming Vegeta is the size of a regular planet. For one, Earth is described as very small by many characters and it significantly smaller than a Super Dragon Ball which in turn is smaller than the average Dragon Ball planet. Also, Vegeta being a planet with 10 times Earth's gravity is a face value statement; I know that statement in itself means little given King Kai's planet. But that's also described as "Very small but condensed with great density." Density of planet Vegeta is never specific but the soil and such is similar to Earth's. And while it has little relevance here, the Toei version of Vegeta does have a much larger size where Vegeta is bigger than Jupiter. But that does give the impression that a larger portrayal is a leaned intended portrayal which assuming it's average size is the reasonable middle. Plus I never agreed with using the 200 Ronnatons end given how "Limited context that lowballs it" it was. And like all planet busting calculations, it's quite a bit lowballed due to using average velocity as opposed to initial velocity.

So in other words, I still think this new end should be fine to use.
Click to expand...
Also planet Vegeta in the Broly movie looks like it's mostly water
 
Damage3245 said:
That's my main objection as well.

As far as I'm aware it's never stated that Vegeta is is average for a planet's size in the Dragon Ball world. Just because Frieza calls Earth a "small" planet doesn't therefore mean that every other planet in the Universe is bigger.

Not to mention that Champa doesn't even use the word "average" in his original statement, nor does his statement imply that the Super Dragon Balls are smaller than planets either.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make any sense, when the term "almost" is used. Its usually used in the context of approaching something. Like if I were to say, "I'm almost as tall as you", it wouldn't make sense to say that if I'm already taller than said person, so I think it's disingenuous to use this statement in any other way, it sounds really dumb to say this if the super dragon balls were already bigger, or they would have just said its bigger already. Or like cell saying, "I'm almost as strong as gohan now", now why would he say this if he was stronger already? It makes no sense, you're trying to force a different interpretation instead of going with the most likely.
 
TiltedFN said:
That doesn't make any sense, when the term "almost" is used. Its usually used in the context of approaching something. Like if I were to say, "I'm almost as tall as you", it wouldn't make sense to say that if I'm already taller than said person, so I think it's disingenuous to use this statement in any other way, it sounds really dumb to say this if the super dragon balls were already bigger, or they would have just said its bigger already. Or like cell saying, "I'm almost as strong as gohan now", now why would he say this if he was stronger already? It makes no sense, you're trying to force a different interpretation instead of going with the most likely.
Click to expand...
If you interpret it differently, that's fine. All I'm saying is that I'm not convinced there's enough evidence to say that Planet Vegeta has this diameter.

If more staff disagree with me on that, than that's fine, I won't contest it.
 
Not a calc member, but don't we divide by 12 instead of 2 for things that are omnidirectional KE, as not all parts may be moving at the same velocity (such as scattering debris omnidirectionally or storm/cloud dispersal)?

If so, then wouldn't the yield be a 1/6 of the calc'd value?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nullflowerblush
  • Locked
The Genocide of the Saiyan, REDUX (Dragon Ball)
2 3 4
Replies
155
Views
11K
LordTracer
LordTracer
Planet Vegeta destroyed feat question
Replies
5
Views
779
Nierre
Nierre
Damage3245
  • Locked
Removing Goku scaling to Second Form Frieza (Dragon Ball Z)
2 3
Replies
104
Views
5K
Damage3245
Damage3245
FireSwordHero
Battle of The Two Ctrl+F+Us (Caboose Vs Frieza)
Replies
0
Views
1K
FireSwordHero
FireSwordHero
Ednaxel2
  • Locked
Dragon Ball AP Ratings Upgrade
16 17 18
Replies
680
Views
35K
Duedate8898
Duedate8898
Back
Top