DB World and Zen'o Tier Revisions

[RadicalMrR]

Isnt the Makaioshin as big as the after life?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

True, but then why hasnt Beerus and Champa's fighting been given the same treatment? Whis and Vados never state they can destroy the afterlife and they are both gods. It should be treated far more threatening than when Beerus fought with Goku, right? Also about the unquantifiable hax point, doesnt Goku only have universal or multi-universal durability via instant transmission?

 

[AnonymouXOtakuX]

@professor good points, but maybe your overthinking..... Meh i'd be fine if it gets accepted or not, considering their logical

 

[RadicalMrR]

No, he breached Hit's pocket dimension.

 

[Ryukama]

None of these things necessarily equate to your conclusion though.

An attack that is able to cross separate realms =/= the realms are no longer separate.

Beerus and Champa not having their attacks be stated able to cross separate realms =/= the realms are no longer separate.

Goku previously only being able to travel separate realms with IT before his new form =/= the realms are no longer separate.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well wasnt Goku already inside it? And is his pocket dimenison another space-time?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Kukui You are really overthinking this. The fact that Whis and Vados actively stop Beerus and Champa shows that they are more of a threat. Also Multi-Universal Durability would imply 2-C Goku....in which is not a thing.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Durability

My bad lol. Meant range. But Ryu already addressed that.

Yes it does mean they are more of a threat but if thats the case, Whis and Vados would have been more clear about it instead of just saying 2 universes would be destroyed. At least thats what I always thought.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I think it's obvious that each universe is basically just it's own realm, in the same way that the Otherworld and the Kaioshin Realm are their own realm, not separated by simple distance. However, all these things still share the same timeline. e.g. If you're in the present timeline and you travel to the Kaioshin Realm, you're still in the present timeline. If you're in Trunks' timeline and travel to the Kaioshin Realm, you're still in Future Trunks' timeline. But the Future Kaioshin Realm is still it's own realm, that can't be traveled to by conventional means. Same with each of the twelve universes. They are all self contained in the same way. They can't be traveled to conventionally. But they all still share the same timeline.

 

[DaFritzi]

I still disagree with ZenO destroying spacetime in his zamasu feat. "dragon ball doesn't care about spacetime" is not what a solid argument looks like. The current arc with the void universe might give us a better understanding.

If you decide to upgrade ZenO to 2-C again I won't oppose it.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Maybe destroying multiple timelines in Dragon Ball would qualify as having 5D power, whereas, destroying a single one with all it's realms and universes would be 4D power. The multiple universes and realms, don't share the same 3D space. They all occupy 4D space while sharing the same dimension of time.

That would also mean Bulma's time machine can travel through the 5th dimension.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, destroying timelines in Dragon Ball is not 5D, you can't even comprehend what 5D is if you think that.

Nothing in Dragon Ball is beyond 2-C.

But yes, Zeno is 2-C.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

You misunderstood him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

5D Dragon Ball is still stupid. This is why I want a thread solely between staff and knowledgeble people, because otherwise it attracts moths to a flame.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

5D Dragon Ball is still stupid. This is why I want a thread solely between staff and knowledgeble people, because otherwise it attracts moths to a flame.

He was just giving a possibility that would explain the inconsistencies between the anime and the guides don't treat him like some fanboy who doesn't know what he talking about

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But he doesn't know what he's talking about. The old guidebooks don't really apply anymore. His explanation is wrong both in principle and in logic.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

But he doesn't know what he's talking about. The old guidebooks don't really apply anymore. His explanation is wrong both in principle and in logic.

Yes he dose the only thing from the guidebooks that don't apply is what has been directly contradict

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

because otherwise it attracts moths to a flame.

Practice what you preach. And I've done my fair share in higher dimensional study, and currently, there's no single agreed way to model higher dimensions. Even this very site is aware of that as indicated by it's page on dimensions.

I do know for a fact, however, that one way of modelling 4D is with four spatial dimensions. The other way is with three spatial dimensions and one dimension of time.

A world with 4 spatial dimensions would be a lot like a single timeline in Dragon Ball, where you have multiple "realms" that cannot be travelled to simply by crossing a distance in space. That suggests they collectively occupy a 4D space. Add the dimension of time (as indicated by having multiple timelines), and you have 5 total dimensions.

And don't just blatantly say "the guidebooks don't apply anymore". That's what's being discussed in this thread.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ok, not sure where's the 5th dimension coming from, so better to settle this before getting out of hand: just change Zen'o to 2-C due destroying the afterlife (along a cosmology explanation); if there's doubts about how it works the cosmology and/or the afterlife in DB, we can still place him in At least Low 2-C, Likely 2-C.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

He was mostly speculating how it could work

 

[Darkmon_cns]

But I do agree with Antoniofer proposal

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I was actually gonna suggest that too. Placing Zeno as "At least Low 2-C. Possibly 2-C."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

2-C.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I still don't think the Afterlife is separate from the main universes but im fine with At Least Low 2-C, Likely/Possibly 2-C

 

[Sparky_"Dante"_Marky1234]

I don't know if you explained it well enough, so if I have time, I'll go over everything and make a post about it, then the staff can go over it, although I'd like to be able to support my arguments one way or another.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I don't think making another post about this is a good idea, we have like 4 posts about this already which none of them are closed, like the staff only one.

And besides this topic will more than likely be guranteed to be a staff only discussion given the topic we are talking about here, which is completely justified and understandable.

 

[Snoop_Fraud]

bump

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

What was the point of bumping this when the previous reply was only 4 minutes ago?

 

[Antvasima]

I will move this thread to the staff only board, before it turns unmanageable.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Why? The threads kind of done everyone who was active agreed to at least low 2C likely 2-C except for Matthew who said just kind of said 2-C?

 

[Antvasima]

Because Dragon Ball revision threads almost always get out of control.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well, as I said before I agree that Zeno is 2C minimum if for no other reason then being able to destroy both the universes and other worlds, kai realms, pocket dimensions etc all in one go casually. I would definitely place him 2C for that alone.

I've given reasoning before but if you want a more in depth reasoning from me or further proof I can of course give my two cents and provide evidence for the topic.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Matthew has already applied the changes that were disused in this thread to the Omniking profile so this can be close