DB to DBZ Re-Scalling thread

[Omegabronic]

As of this thread of mine, the Kamehameha got a very big upgrade, in which it can get strong enough to turn one shot gaps around and be far, FAR superior to the user, as such, several scalling moments get changed because of it, so alongside previous accepted threads that were never applied, i will now propose some re-scallings to the verse

Credit to @Ednaxel2 for helping me in making this

Full Metal Jacket​

The current profile is very misleading and EXTREMELY inacurate to how his "fight" against Goku went:

Was able to give Goku some trouble, which led him to believe that Major Metallitron was strong enough to take part in the 21st Budōkai It is unknown if he could have defeated Goku if he did not run out of batteries)

Because we DO KNOW if he could beat Goku.....the answer is yes, a NON ARGUMENTATIVE YES, Goku straight up CANNOT HARM HIM at all, no matter how hard he hits him, even when he hits him harm enough to hurt himself in the process, Metal Jacket simply ignores it, he can also easily ragdoll Goku with his attacks CASSUALLY without any difficulty, and his missile should be an "Far Higher" as well, as Goku compared it to a Kamehameha and he was certain Goku would die from it, so here's the new AP and Durability descriptions:

At least Building level+, likely higher (Much stronger than Goku, being able to easily beat him up with his attacks), Far higher with Missile (Was certain that Goku would die from it, with the kid comparing it to a Kamehameha)

At least Building level+, likely Far higher (Completely impervious to all of Goku's attacks, regardless of how much strength he put into them)

Piccolo​

Piccolo currently in his first key uses his feat of tanking Goku's Super Kamehameha as a justification for his durability, well, since the Super Kamehameha is said to be "superbly powered up" compared to the normal Kamehameha, and also said to be a "Full Power attack" that Goku let loose, as of the last thread, even a normal Kamehameha's at full power vastly outscale the user, and can even reverse one shot gaps and all that, so Piccolo, who is equal to Goku, tanking something even stronger than Goku's possible strongest normal Kamehameha gets circular, as such it should be removed and Goku should have an "even higher with Super Kamehameha" in his AP description

Well, Piccolo currently only has 1 key for the Saiyan Saga........which is wrong, he should have two, one from the Raditz fight and another from the Saiyan invasion, as he is significantly stronger when Vegeta and Nappa arrive, and is relative to Goku, a Low 5-B, during Raditz, and 5-B above Raditz later on......not much related to the Kamehameha, but hey, better fix it when we can, right? it is even in the scalling blog, so it should be simple

and lastly for Piccolo, in his "post absorbing Kami" section in his profile, him being initially largely superior to Imperfect Cell should be added, this one is simple enough

Super Perfect Cell​

This one... will be uncontroversial, since it was already accepted in two threads prior. Meaning this is technically applying what is currently accepted... but meh, i might as well argue for it using my prior thread's accepted revision

Putting it simply, Cell has no real reason to scale to his Solar Kamehameha in his base stats. As detailed in the last thread, a Kamehameha gets significantly stronger the more energy is condensed into it. Enough to one shot, or even completely annihilate, opponents far superior to the user. Cell took a significant amount of time condensing and harnessing his energy for the Kamehameha in question, which was referred to be his "final Kamehameha"; something implying superiority to the other kamehamehas he could do, like his full powered one, and this is the Kamehameha that Cell gathered enough energy to destroy the solar system with, to nail it in the coffin this one was his absolute strongest Kamehameha, it is directly stated to be using "all of his strength" in the Solar Kamehameha. It is never said he has this much power in his base stats himself. Due to the consistent showings of the Kamehameha in the series, him taking his sweet time charging and condensing his energy for that one makes him scalling without any reason dubious.

Even ignoring the above, Gohan far outscaling Cell's own normal stats to begin with is BOGUS, as Cell casually broke his arm with a single ki blast, arguing that Gohan was "off guard" or emotionally weaker doesn't work as Gohan already had powered up and was already in the mindset to kill Cell prior to that, literally about to fight him and lamenting on his arrogance of not finishing him off earlier, so arguing that he for some reason isn't at his full power here when he wanted to avenge Goku was likely angry and happy to be able to correct himself on not using his full power to kill Cell before is absurd + He literally SAW the attack and was going directly to its path to protect Vegeta, so lowering his power at that point would be nonsensical. And even then. He not only had his arm broken, but he had to spend half of his Ki to block it to begin with... which wouldn't happen if he was really far superior to Cell at that point. Oh, and also, Cell did that when he was "fooling around"... so he wasn't even close to his full power at all.. Nor can he physically scale to his Kamehameha he launched against Super Perfect Cell, as it was said to be the "Greatest, most powerful Kamehameha"; aka the type that far outscales the user(check last thread for details and examples).

(Scans) It is true that Gohan was emotionally holding back against Cell as Goku stated that he was scarred to destroy the Earth on accident. But even then Cell was overpowering a kamehameha from a not-so-full-power-but-still-confident Gohan, and needed him to truly go full power to overpower him, which was ALSO made easier by Vegeta distracting Cell

So even if Gohan was at half power, it still costed a kamehameha with all of his might put into it, and Vegeta’s assistance to overpower Cell (not saying Cell would’ve won the beam clash without Vegeta since Gohan’s is still stated to be the strongest kamehameha in history, just that Vegeta’s assist prevents it from truly being a stomp)

Which is still confusing as, he broke Gohan's arm while he was much stronger prior and made him waste half his ki, yet now he can't overpower Gohan as easily as he did before? The best way to solve this is to just make them comparable, higher or lower than one another in a non-evident way, as Gohan needed Cell off guard + Rage power and no holding back to overpower Cell, while Cell did significant harm to him with a single attack

For more statements that Gohan's Kamehameha at that time was his strongest/had all his Ki put into it(meaning it is the type of Kamehameha that far outscales the user as per last thread's)

"Cell tried to blow away the entire Earth, but a heartbroken Gohan is encouraged by Goku in the afterlife, and in his Kamehameha struggle with Cell he puts forth his strongest power."

"During the battle with Cell, he won with a Kamehameha that had all his might behind it."

"It looked like Gohan was being pushed back by the Kamehameha that Cell fired, but with Goku's advice he unleashes all his ki in one burst!"

CSS is broken in Archive, so......it looks uggly, the translation's text is still there tho

Buu Saga scalling​

Goku as a SS3 had a power described as impossible by the other characters, even reaching the kaioshin realm, which the Father Sin kamehameha didn't reach, so he scales to it


No one directly scales to the Father-Son Kamehameha in power, but people stronger than Teen SS2 Gohan should be able to make one as strong as he did, if not stronger, so they can scale via that

Another tibbit i want to add is the fact that the Energy taken from Buu Saga SS2 Gohan was enough to be near half the necessary to revive Buu, so logically, Buu is AT LEAST twice as strong as Gohan in this Saga


New scalling blog here

Agree: @Damage3245 @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X

Disagree: @DarkDragonMedeus

Neutral:

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

No one directly scales to the Father-Son Kamehameha in power, but people stronger than Teen SS2 Gohan should be able to make one as strong as he did, if not stronger, so they can scale via that

Hmm??

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

What ?

 

[Omegabronic]

Hmm??

as in, no once physically scales to it, their own kamehameha's and such would scale

 

[StekFence]

Hmm??

I believe it would be, x tier, and then Father son kamehameha tier with full power

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Father Son Kamehameha >>> Super Vegito

 

[Damage3245]

This one... will be controversial, since it was already accepted in two threads prior. Meaning this is technically applying what is currently accepted... but meh, i might as well argue for it using my prior thread's accepted revision

Shouldn't this mean it would be uncontroversial if it was accepted twice before?

 

[Huesito88]

Father Son Kamehameha >>> Ssj 3 Super Vegito

Fixed

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Why wouldn’t Gohan’s initial kamehameha scale to physicals, since it wasn’t charged for very long and shot it as a last second response. I am aware Gohan puts more power into it as the clash goes on, but initially he held the blast back. Then, put more power as Cell continued to push back.


Regarding the Buu Saga stuff though, Vegeta literally states that Goku’s power is above the power Gohan used at that time (against Cell). Vegeta states: “Impressive. This is power beyond what Gohan had at that time!” At the bare minimum, it doesn’t make sense for anyone above SSJ2, during the Buu Saga not to scale.

 

[Omegabronic]

Shouldn't this mean it would be uncontroversial if it was accepted twice before?

........i mistyped LOL

What do you think of the thread btw?

 

[Omegabronic]

Father Son Kamehameha >>> Super Vegito

Oh no, he scales higher via Multipliers and scalling chains

 

[Omegabronic]

Why wouldn’t Gohan’s initial kamehameha scale to physicals, since it wasn’t charged for very long and shot it as a last second response.

Charge time doesn't really matter much, Roshi and SSB Goku haven't charged for a long time and it was still far higher than their normal stats

Also......it is verbatim said to be the strongest kamehameha, so it is his strongest, which is supported by how it matched Cell's strongest Kamehameha, who should at the very least be comparable to Gohan in normal stats

I am aware Gohan puts more power into it as the clash goes on, but initially he held the blast back. Then, put more power as Cell continued to push back.

Nah, he just launched it and maintained it until he fully unleashed all of it in one last burst, still, the Kamehameha was his strongest at launch, as showed in thr image acompanying the statement

Oh and also.......did you ignored the part where i said SPC is comparable, if not superior to Gohan at the time? Why would Gohan scale to Cell's strongest Kamehameha physically, which as per last thread's conclusion, the strongest Kamehameha one can do is far, FAR above one's physical stats, when Cell with a casual attack broke his arm?

Regarding the Buu Saga stuff though, Vegeta literally states that Goku’s power is above the power Gohan used at that time (against Cell).

This is you saying this, prove he is talking about specifically about Gohan's absolute strongest kamehameha instead of his Base Power... Goku can also do the Kamehameha, his being stronger than Gohan's is also being Proposed, so

Vegeta states: “Impressive. This is power beyond what Gohan had at that time!” At the bare minimum, it doesn’t make sense for anyone above SSJ2, during the Buu Saga not to scale.

And this includes Gohan's strongest attack that doesn't scale to his base stat's instead of talking about Gohan's power in general because?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Charge time doesn't really matter much, Roshi and SSB Goku haven't charged for a long time and it was still far higher than their normal stats Also......it is verbatim said to be the strongest kamehameha, so it is his strongest, which is supported by how it matched Cell's strongest Kamehameha, who should at the very least be comparable to Gohan in normal stats

They both put all their efforts into the attack, and they did it charge for a bit, whereas Gohan merely shot his at a response to Cell’s power and hadn’t put his effort into his attack yet. It’s the strongest kamehameha at this point, when Gohan puts all his power into it not the initial attack.

Nah, he just launched it and maintained it until he fully unleashed all of it in one last burst, still, the Kamehameha was his strongest at launch, as showed in thr image acompanying the statement

Oh and also.......did you ignored the part where i said SPC is comparable, if not superior to Gohan at the time? Why would Gohan scale to Cell's strongest Kamehameha physically, which as per last thread's conclusion, the strongest Kamehameha one can do is far, FAR above one's physical stats, when Cell with a casual attack broke his arm?

He launched and maintained it, but he doesn’t put effort into it and unleash his full power until later in the clash. The kamehameha was not the strongest at the launch?? He literally needed a pep talk from Goku and Goku himself told Gohan he was holding back because he was scared of destroying the earth. Yes, I know it’s stated to be the strongest, but that’s referring to the Father-Son Kamehameha when he puts all his effort into it. Gohan is still stronger than Cell, he got hurt because he panicked and rushed to protect Vegeta, so he couldn’t brace for the blow. He would just be comparable to Cell’s initial launch, since he also puts more effort during the clash. The kamehameha being stronger than the user doesn’t change that.

This is you saying this, prove he is talking about specifically about Gohan's absolute strongest kamehameha instead of his Base Power... Goku can also do the Kamehameha, his being stronger than Gohan's is also being Proposed, so


And this includes Gohan's strongest attack that doesn't scale to his base stat's instead of talking about Gohan's power in general because?

Vegeta literally states, that his power is beyond the power that Gohan used at that time which is obviously referencing Gohan at the cell saga. Why would it not include Gohan’s strongest attack when he says Goku’s power is beyond the power Gohan during the cell games.

 

[Omegabronic]

They both put all their efforts into the attack, and they did it charge for a bit, whereas Gohan merely shot his at a response to Cell’s power and hadn’t put his effort into his attack yet.

yes, he did put his effort into the attack, hence why it was called his strongest kamehameha at that point and why it could clash with Cell's strongest move, meanwhile trying to defend against a casual attack from the same Cell, while he himself was with more Ki/stronger cost him half of his Ki and broke his arm, reminder, it is already accepted that the strongest kamehameha of a user is FAR superior to the user's bade stats, to the point of one shotting and even completely obliterating people who can one shot the user, so it is DEFINITELY several magnitudes above a casual attack while "fooling around" that Cell did... which is what cost Gohan half his Ki to block and broke his arm

To say he didn't put effort into it while not addressing the reasonings i gave in the OP for it is... weird

It’s the strongest kamehameha at this point, when Gohan puts all his power into it not the initial attack.

Which makes it > Cell's Kamehameha which is >>>>>>> Cell's casual "fooling around" attacks, which is what reduced a stronger Gohan to half Ki and broke his arm to begin with

So even by this logic, it is still far, FAR superior to Gohan's own physicals

He launched and maintained it, but he doesn’t put effort into it and unleash his full power until later in the clash.

My dude, Gohan is trying to save his family and friends, why on Earth would he not put effort in against the strongest attack of a being that cassually broke his arm prior? You are making no sense here

The kamehameha was not the strongest at the launch??

Could you address my point as to why i said it was at launch?

He literally needed a pep talk from Goku and Goku himself told Gohan he was holding back because he was scared of destroying the earth.

as said above, that would still put it far above Gohan's own physicals for scalling to Cell's strongest Kamehameha, so moot point really

Yes, I know it’s stated to be the strongest, but that’s referring to the Father-Son Kamehameha when he puts all his effort into it.

And you say this when the scan doesn't specify, but shows an image of it at its innitial launch, because?

Gohan is still stronger than Cell, he got hurt because he panicked and rushed to protect Vegeta, so he couldn’t brace for the blow.

he literally powered up prior was full on killing Cell, he did braced for it, heck, he literally saw it and ran specifically to defend against the attack... he was literally still with the aura of when he powered up and said "I'll kill you Cell"... plus, how come it cost him half his Ki of he was supposedly using so little that it made him severely weaker than someone he is supposed to be stronger than?

More over, why would Gohan power down, at all, when he is actually trying to defend someone? What sense does this make?

He would just be comparable to Cell’s initial launch, since he also puts more effort during the clash.

which is still said to be launched with "all of his might", aka, Cell's innitial launch doesn't scale to Cell's physicals either, again, as per what was accepted and shown in the ast thread

The kamehameha being stronger than the user doesn’t change that.

yes it does, cause it breaches several one shot gaps when launched at its strongest... which Cell's was explicitly said to be how he launched it, at its strongest

Vegeta literally states, that his power is beyond the power that Gohan used at that time which is obviously referencing Gohan at the cell saga.

Yeah, Goku's base power at SS2 is >> Gohan's SS2 at the time of the Cell games... prove this extends to absolutely everything Gohan can do, including his strongest possible attack

Pretty sure this was already accepted in past threads, this exact same point was brought up even in the two threads iirc

Why would it not include Gohan’s strongest attack when he says Goku’s power is beyond the power Gohan during the cell games.

...why would it? He just says "stronger than Gohan" not "stronger than every single attsvk Gohan could ever do no matter what, specially when Goku also has access to the same thing that made Gohan that strong

Again, i am pretty sure this was extensivelly discussed before, i would ask @Damage3245 to confirm or deny this, iirc it was

 

[Damage3245]

Again, i am pretty sure this was extensivelly discussed before, i would ask @Damage3245 to confirm or deny this, iirc it was

Yeah, this is just retreading points that were already accepted previously.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

So SSJ2 Goku is > SSJ2 Gohan but SSJ2 Goku's strongest attack isn't > SSJ2 Gohan's strongest attack?

Dude that we've gotten to this point shows how cooked we are lmao

I don't have any opinion on this but it's very funny to see these sorts of arguements being taken seriously

 

[Damage3245]

So SSJ2 Goku is > SSJ2 Gohan but SSJ2 Goku's strongest attack isn't > SSJ2 Gohan's strongest attack?

Dude that we've gotten to this point shows how cooked we are lmao

I don't have any opinion on this but it's very funny to see these sorts of arguements being taken seriously

Literally nowhere is that said?

• Super Saiyan 2 Gohan's Kamehameha (+ rage amped) was able to match with and overpower Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha at half power: 2.106 KiloFoe (Solar System level)
• Super Saiyan 2 Goku is superior to Cell Games Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, and likewise with their Kamehamehas. Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta's charged attacks should be comparable to Goku's Kamehameha: >2.106 KiloFoe (Solar System level)

Please read through the scaling blog before complaining about arguments we're not supposed to take seriously.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I fully agree with the cell section

taking time to charge up an attack by itself should disqualify you from scaling it to your normal ap

Why wouldn’t Gohan’s initial kamehameha scale to physicals, since it wasn’t charged for very long and shot it as a last second response. I am aware Gohan puts more power into it as the clash goes on, but initially he held the blast back. Then, put more power as Cell continued to push back.


Regarding the Buu Saga stuff though, Vegeta literally states that Goku’s power is above the power Gohan used at that time (against Cell). Vegeta states: “Impressive. This is power beyond what Gohan had at that time!” At the bare minimum, it doesn’t make sense for anyone above SSJ2, during the Buu Saga not to scale.

can I see the official version? one translation i did with chatgpt says
"As expected...
This power surpasses
even the limits of that time!"

if limits are surpassed it would likely mean the strongest peak at that point was surpassed

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Literally nowhere is that said?

• Super Saiyan 2 Gohan's Kamehameha (+ rage amped) was able to match with and overpower Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha at half power: 2.106 KiloFoe (Solar System level)
• Super Saiyan 2 Goku is superior to Cell Games Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, and likewise with their Kamehamehas. Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta's charged attacks should be comparable to Goku's Kamehameha: >2.106 KiloFoe (Solar System level)

Please read through the scaling blog before complaing about arguments we're not supposed to take seriously.

I did, that's why I didn't disagree with the thread, I commented on an arguement used in response to counter arguements.

I didn't say shit about the scaling chain. Don't accuse me of not reading the post then not read my own post.

'About arguments we're not supposed to take seriously' oh okay so don't take arguements seriously then got it.

 

[Damage3245]

I did, that's why I didn't disagree with the thread, I commented on an arguement used in response to counter arguements.

I didn't say shit about the scaling thread. Don't accuse me of not reading the post then not read my own post.

'About arguments we're not supposed to take seriously' oh okay so don't take arguements seriously then got it.

Stop yapping. You made a bad post and got caught out when I pointed out your obvious error.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Stop yapping. You made a bad post and got caught out when I pointed out your obvious error.

No I ******* didn't. You didn't point out shit you grossly assumed the point I was making and accused me of doing the exact same thing you did, 'not reading the post'. I did.

 

[Damage3245]

No I ******* didn't. You didn't point out shit you grossly assumed the point I was making and accused me of doing the exact same thing you did, 'not reading the post'. I did.

What on Earth else is this line supposed to mean?

So SSJ2 Goku is > SSJ2 Gohan but SSJ2 Goku's strongest attack isn't > SSJ2 Gohan's strongest attack?

Who or what are you responding to with this?

 

[Ednaxel2]

So SSJ2 Goku is > SSJ2 Gohan but SSJ2 Goku's strongest attack isn't > SSJ2 Gohan's strongest attack?

 

[Omegabronic]

Stop yapping. You made a bad post and got caught out when I pointed out your obvious error.

what do you think of the thread? Do you agree?

 

[Damage3245]

what do you think of the thread? Do you agree?

Yeah, I agree with the thread.

 

[BoastJr]

Agree with the thread but wanted to ask.

(From Chapter 316 of the Z Manga iirc)

• Fat Buu can perform the Kamehameha and is 2x Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: >2.106 KiloFoe (Solar System level)

We can clearly see Kid Buu performing a kamehameha here on Goku which heavily injured him but doesn't kill him.

Would this scale to SSJ3 Goku's physical stats or do we rule it out as an inconsistency.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Yeah, this is just retreading points that were already accepted previously.

When was Buu Saga not scaling accepted? There’s literally a clearcut statement that would have SSJ2’s during the Buu Saga to scale and it wasn’t debunked. Also, I don’t think the SSJ2 Gohan point was talked about merely Cell himself not scaling.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

We can go with the old thread's SSJ3 Goku > Solar Kamehameha interpretation, based on his transformation being so powerful that its energy was felt in the Kaioshin realm, which can't be said for the Kamehameha clash between Cell and Gohan.

 

[Omegabronic]

Agree with the thread but wanted to ask.

(From Chapter 316 of the Z Manga iirc)

• Fat Buu can perform the Kamehameha and is 2x Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: >2.106 KiloFoe (Solar System level)

We can clearly see Kid Buu performing a kamehameha here on Goku which heavily injured him but doesn't kill him.

Would this scale to SSJ3 Goku's physical stats or do we rule it out as an inconsistency.

Well, the Kamehameha varies naturally, it isn't the same strenght all the times it is launched, so it isn't inconsistent, that one is simply not the type that is strong enough to obliterate opponents far superior to the user, in the same scan it shows Goku obliterating Buu's body completely even

 

[Omegabronic]

We can go with the old thread's SSJ3 Goku > Solar Kamehameha interpretation, based on his transformation being so powerful that its energy was felt in the Kaioshin realm, which can't be said for the Kamehameha clash between Cell and Gohan.

Huh, good point, what does the staff here think of this reasoning?

 

[Ednaxel2]

Well, the Kamehameha varies naturally, it isn't the same strenght all the times it is launched, so it isn't inconsistent, that one is simply not the type that is strong enough to obliterate opponents far superior to the user, in the same scan it shows Goku obliterating Buu's body completely even

Goku also just straight up said that it sucked

 

[Ednaxel2]

Yeah, Goku's base power at SS2 is >> Gohan's SS2 at the time of the Cell games... prove this extends to absolutely everything Gohan can do, including his strongest possible attack

Are you saying Goku's kamehameha doesn't scale to Gohan's??

 

[Chariot190]

I agree with the thread to a degree.

I just skimmed the Buu Saga and there's a lot of instances of them going wtf and yapping about unimaginable displays of power, or unprecedented, or this and that.
Think anything past SSJ3 Gotenks/Super Buu/SSJ3 Goku should upscale off the Solar Kamehameha based on yap and just feats like being felt across the cosmos and shit due to being so strong.

Anything below that can get ****** tho.

also Goku is way less ******* stupid in the manga compared to super/daima, wtf happened he's like a completely different character

 

[Ednaxel2]

Think anything past SSJ3 Gotenks/Super Buu/SSJ3 Goku should upscale off the Solar Kamehameha based on yap and just feats like being felt across the cosmos and shit due to being so strong.

They're already far above the value of Gohan's kamehameha by that point anyways

 

[BoastJr]

From my understanding it is likely the energy from the Father Son kamehameha didn't reach the Supreme Kai and Kibito Kai. If it did they wouldn't be baffled by a weaker Gohan going Super Saiyan 2.

So it does make sense for SSJ3 Goku being stronger then the Father Son Kamehameha

Snip

 

[Chariot190]

They're already far above the value of Gohan's kamehameha by that point anyways

SSJ3 Goku is listed as 198Foe in the blog (8kf charged), as opposed to 2.106Kilofoe? Or am I reading that wrong? Like it ain't the biggest gap, but it's still like a 10x diff.

 

[Ednaxel2]

SSJ3 Goku is listed as 198Foe in the blog (8kf charged), as opposed to 2.106Kilofoe? Or am I reading that wrong? Like it ain't the biggest gap, but it's still like a 10x diff.

Oh I didn't even notice you said SSJ3 Goku lol. Yeah there might be a statement about him being unimaginably or smth

EDIT: There's one statement from Gohan when he detects Goku's ki and believes that it it entirely impossible for Goku to be boasting ki at such a high level, even though he has sensed how strong Goku is when he was a Super Saiyan 2

 

[Omegabronic]

Ok, i will get the scans of Goku's display as a SS3 and add as him upscaling from Gohan's Father Sonc Kamehameha... tommorow tho, i need to sleep now

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

also Goku is way less ******* stupid in the manga compared to super/daima, wtf happened he's like a completely different character

Back when DB was peak

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I strongly disagree with the idea that "Kamehamehas always turn oneshot gaps around". Vegeta was able to no sell a Kamehameha from a Kaioken x4 Goku despite being slower and physically weaker than Kaioken x3. I only ever agreed it is usually stronger than normal punches; how much stronger is a different story altogether. Not to mentioned, there are plenty of cases of people tanking their own Kamehamehas. And even gaps aren't consistent. Galick Gun was equal to Kx3 Goku's Kamehameha despite being noticeably weaker. But in other cases, despite Final Flash being officially a stronger technique than Galick Gun, and SSB Goku being stronger than SSB Vegeta at certain periods. Goku's Kamehameha was just equal to Vegeta's Final Flash.

I also strongly disagree with no one scaling from Solar Kamehameha; especially since Buu has strength/durability feats repelling Ki attacks far stronger. F.E. Goku's Spirit Bomb.