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Darth Vader (Star Wars) vs Saitama (One Punch Man)
- Thread starter Aparajita
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Because Non-Canon material is just for profit fan-fiction that can and will ignore any actual capibilities a character does or does not have. It's not so much a problem in things like Dragon Ball, or DC/Marvel Comics, but things like Star Wars, or Star Trek? Things that appear in the non-canon can consistantly contridict actual canon material. That's why the entire canon classification exists. No where in any of the Canon does it even remotely show vader having the capabilities you guys describe him as having. Whereas the Canon Material for OPM does consistantly show the extent of his abilities as described. It's also the reason superheroes are classified by their comic run or universe, like superman, because his abilities are shown to be so inconsistant, the difference is he ACTUALLY written and canonized by DC Comics.
You guys are trying to rig it in Vader's favor, where i'm using a consistant and equalized ruleset for comparison, things like light speed reaction times? Try actually watching the star wars movies, he shows no where near that capability.
At one point the expanded universe DID have a semi-canon status, and could be properly used in a debate, disney destroyed that. Time to accept it and move on.
You guys are trying to rig it in Vader's favor, where i'm using a consistant and equalized ruleset for comparison, things like light speed reaction times? Try actually watching the star wars movies, he shows no where near that capability.
At one point the expanded universe DID have a semi-canon status, and could be properly used in a debate, disney destroyed that. Time to accept it and move on.
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Tabulasmaragdina said:
Exactly, there you have a canon example of 3 powerful force users (including vader.) having difficulty suggesting a course of action combined. Against a standard Duros that wasn't a force user.
In the movies, the only team you really see mind trick work is against extremely weak willed background characters. (Episode 2 and Episode 4.)
I see these two referring to "logic" while committing the moving the goal post fallacy, and ad hominem.
The Clone Wars cartoon series tends to be quite inconsistent. Regardless, Vader was still never considered to be a notable practitioner of Force Persuasion, so he really shouldn't be scaled with Sidious's force aptitude. The novelizations of the 6 movies can be considered canon as well to a certain degree.
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If people here want to discuss EU?Kharaa said:
Who are you to tell them not to when a wide variety of popular characters are solely EU
You don't get to dictate which version is used, only the OP does
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ITT People acting like this hobby has a universal ******* standard :lmao
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Oh my godKharaa said:
Just because Disney had labeled the EU no longer canon doesn't mean that it should be forgotten altogether. How ignorant can you be?
As the YouTuber, EvanNova95 says it best
"Canon. Should at the end of the day. Be what you make of it. Not what some author or some company says."
Skip to 18:56 to listen to the whole speech regarding the EU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3teFwdmOMQc
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^^^^^^Epiccheev said:
EU Darth Vader has always been used for the majority of the debates on here, but yeah using composite Vader from both the Legends and Disney Canon would not hurt at all. The best of both can always be great.
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Epiccheev said:
It probably should be split, now. An EU Vader, and the actual Darth Vader. Since he now exists in an alternate universe. It's no different than what people do with the various incarnations of marvel and dc characters.
Even still, the original argument before my post prevails, mind hax is the only arguement going for vader, and saitama has shown to have an extremely powerful will power. Physically this isn't even the same realm, and nothing i've ever read with vader (if you have something that contridicts this, go ahead and post it.) even has Vader remotely as fast as Saitama. I don't know how we can ignore the canon material though even if we consider the EU as a viable argument. Isn't this the argument people use against Superman P1M? Because we don't actually see his feats they dont count?
unfortunetely the higher end of saitama's abilities are speculatory at the moment, because they consistantly say through out the series that he doesn't try very hard, and just does the super hero thing because he's bored.
His Strength is immense, and his durability is too. That's the biggest things he has going for him. It's hard to judge in anime, how fast characters are actually moving, but it's faster than human detection. but he destroys the majority of a mass of an impacting asteroid with a punch, and survives being hit to the moon. Im not sure there is anything vader could do to hurt him.
Also thanks for actually participating in the discussion instead of just throwing insults at people.
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Vader should be stronger than Malak, as he's 80% of Sidious, the strongest Sith Lord to ever live.
Malak was calculated, by a member of this very wiki, to be traveling at Relativistic+, Vader should be stronger, faster, and overall better than Malak was.
"Willpower" isn't enough to defeat Mindhax on this level, it requires resistence to Telepathy, which he doesn't have, or telepathy itself, which he doesn't have.
Vader can win via Mindhax, or Sub Atomic Matter Maniuplation, since Anakin uses Sub Atomic Matter Maniuplatio, to activate a Holocro, that requires it requires one to make numerous precision alterations to it on a subatomic scale
Anakin can do it, Vader should be able to do it *much* easier.
Malak was calculated, by a member of this very wiki, to be traveling at Relativistic+, Vader should be stronger, faster, and overall better than Malak was.
"Willpower" isn't enough to defeat Mindhax on this level, it requires resistence to Telepathy, which he doesn't have, or telepathy itself, which he doesn't have.
Vader can win via Mindhax, or Sub Atomic Matter Maniuplation, since Anakin uses Sub Atomic Matter Maniuplatio, to activate a Holocro, that requires it requires one to make numerous precision alterations to it on a subatomic scale
Anakin can do it, Vader should be able to do it *much* easier.
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How do we know Vader will start the fight with mindhax,when he seldom does that in a battle he mostly uses it on people he needs information from,not people he just needs to dispose,in fact saitama is likely planet level as it says in his profile,he probably just needs to throw one serious punch and darth vader's shield won't be able to hold in fact i give saitama about 4/10,because the only way he would win is if vader starts the fight with his favorite move,the force choke
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Darth wiiiiiiins.
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Actually, that's not his favorite move. He uses it to punish underlings because it's effective and Sidious told him *not* to kill members of the Imperial Navy.Epiccheev said:
His favorite move would be Force Telekinesis, in the form of Force Push or Toss.
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Where is the demostration of vader going to relativistic+ speed? I would really read it..Aparajita said:
How I said it before willpower isn't enought (maybe) to defeat mindhax..
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Atomic manipultaion isn't neither in his skills list..
I have also another question
If he is so fast why isn't it showed? why he just not go and kills all his opponent in a istant? I mean I really don't think that Vader was thinked to be at relativistic speed, even in star wars games vader has no speed advantages! it's really never showed to go at relativistic speed.
And for mind hax, if it's true that he can control bilion of people and also jadi, why fighting? I mean he just have to control other people and if he want just say tham to commint suicide..
I think that if vader really had these powers all the star wars plot would be pretty ******..
I have also another question
If he is so fast why isn't it showed? why he just not go and kills all his opponent in a istant? I mean I really don't think that Vader was thinked to be at relativistic speed, even in star wars games vader has no speed advantages! it's really never showed to go at relativistic speed.
And for mind hax, if it's true that he can control bilion of people and also jadi, why fighting? I mean he just have to control other people and if he want just say tham to commint suicide..
I think that if vader really had these powers all the star wars plot would be pretty ******..
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Not sure if these count for youChoseUsername said:
But here Vader moved so fast that it appeared as though he teleported
But wait. Here is more.
Appearing to be in two or three places at once:
He moved so fast that he almost seemed to be in two or three places at once.
-- Star Wars: Rebel Force: Hostage
He kills Roan Lands before Ferus Oli can react, indicating that he could have speedblitzed the latter:
"He is a former associate, yes, but --"
It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda.
The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapo
Vader was stated by Ferus as being faster than anyone he had ever seen move, aside from Yoda. That includes Vader himself as a Padawan, when he could move so fast that he seemed to be everywhere at once:
Never had Obi-Wan seen such a display of the Force from a Padawan. From the great Jedi Masters, yes. From Qui-Gon, near the end of his life.
But from someone so young? Anakin's power astonished him. He had glimpsed it before, but now he had seen it unfurl, and it staggered him.
He had not had a chance to move, to help. Anakin had been a blur. He had seemed to be everywhere at once. He had destroyed ten attack droids, disarmed his aggressors, and disabled two laser cannons without hesitation, with even a slight smile on his face.
-- Jedi Quest: The School of Fear
Vader dodges an enraged Ferus Oli's attacks:
Ferus heard Amie shout, but he couldn't focus on anything but his own need to plunge his lightsaber deep into Vader. He whirled and attacked again, but Vader again was gone, moving with a speed and lightness that was surprising considering his body armor.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapo
Vader moves with such speed that he doesn't seem to be there when an enraged Ferus Olin attacks him:
This was it, then. The final confrontation.
He was ready. His rage was ice and fire.
He charged.
His first blow was easily parried. He came at Vader again. Again. Circling, jumping, vaulting past him, turning. Each time his lightsaber came toward him, it was eilher deflected in a shock that ran up his arm, Vader simply wasn't there.
---
Ferus leaped over a gaping hole in the floor and attacked Vader again, but his lightsaber cut through empty air.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Reckoning
Vader comes out of nowhere in front of Ferus Olin:
Vader came out of nowhere, raising a gloved hand. Ferus felt himself lifted up, over Vader's head. He couldn't breathe.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Reckoning
(Canon) Vader moves with preternatural speed and swings his lightsaber as a blur:
Vader was forty meters from her. He stood up straight, towering over the crew near him. He was looking right at her, his lightsaber held at his side, and she could feel the weight of his regard pressing against her like a punch. He exploded into motion, moving toward her at preternatural speed, his strides devouring the deck space between them. Crew scrambled out of the way at his approach, his dark form knifing through them.
She raised her blasters and took aim, shooting as fast as she could pull the triggers, scribing the air between them with lines of red energy. Vader didn't slow his sprint and his lightsaber was a blur as he came on, deflecting her shots in all directions. A few came back at her. One hit the pallet and sent tools skittering along the deck. Another scorched the bulkhead beside her, but still she fired.
The crew in the corridor panicked, scrambling in all directions. An officer got in Vader's way, slowing his approach for a moment, and Vader tossed him aside with his free hand as if the man weighed no more than a child.
Isval! Eshgo said from behind her.
Vader was twenty meters and closing.
She was shouting, firing, but her shots could not get past the line of his lightsaber. She didn't understand how it was possible, until her own words came back to her: Vader was not a man.
-- Lords Of The Sith
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Another speed feat for VaderChoseUsername said:
Kills multiple people before they can react.
The Twi'leks had only a moment to register his approach before he cut them down in rapid succession. He left five corpses and a hall full of gawking troops behind him as he pelted onward.
-- Lords Of The Sith
And this was in the Disney Cano
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An human eye can see a fotogram in 1/200 sec (a aviator eye) this means that even an object is swinging with an hight fequency (200 swing for second) we wouldn't be able to see this object moving, but just vibrating a little like elicopters blades.
This phenomenon happen also to speed lower than speed of sound, also saitama can't be detected form human eyes but still we are not saying he has light speed.. And also boros sonic or saitama's punch seemed to be in more than one place in the same time, but still we don't assume that they go at lightspeed..
This phenomenon happen also to speed lower than speed of sound, also saitama can't be detected form human eyes but still we are not saying he has light speed.. And also boros sonic or saitama's punch seemed to be in more than one place in the same time, but still we don't assume that they go at lightspeed..
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Thing is though is that Sonic doesn't match up to the same kind of speed that Saitama and Vader have shownChoseUsername said:
Sonic is only Massively Hypersonic while Saitama and Vader are Sub-Relatvistic/Relatvistic. They'd have no problem catching him (Sonic) at all.
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Username and I are specifically referring to Speed of Sound Sonic from One Punch Man. Who's speed pales in comparison to Saitama and Darth Vader.Tzula said:
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Yes i know sonic is much slower, i was just showing how the "it's like he is everywhere" doesn't mean he is relativistic+ speed, sonic too seems to be everywhere and he is just hypersonic..
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Point takenChoseUsername said:
However If you wish for a more clear and concise answers as to why Vader is Relatvisitic with Lightspeed reactions. I suggest you ask one of the users on here who goes by the name of The Everlasting since he was the reason all the Star Wars characters on this site got an immense buff with the evidence provided.
He'll explain it better then me and almost everyone on here.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:The_Everlasting
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Ok, I will ask him
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Vader, He has a much bigger arsenal and superior hax. The only thing going for Saitama is His brute strength but I don't think that would be enough, It's more of a matter of tag, If saitama went serious straight off and punches him, Vader wouldn't survive. But that really isn't Saitama way of fighting.
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True since Saitama never has gone truly all out yet, But we have to go by the data of what we have to make an assumption. Saitama is more of a brute force person, Since you know... He mostly only fights with his fists and he hasn't shown any hax or able to counter other users hax just yet.
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