Darth Vader vs Sukuna

[Arkenis]

I didnt check but, he should have DA in this key

DA only blocks out cursed techniques not abilities of different verses. Plus the Force is apparently tier 1 and the Force itself is in everything, so DA wouldn't block it

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

DA only blocks out cursed techniques not abilities of different verses.

And why not?

Plus the Force is apparently tier 1 and the Force itself is in everything, so DA wouldn't block it

AFAIK, its not on Vaders profile yet

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Bro what are you even talking about. A body domain is still made of matter. Innate domains and by extension, domain expansions are a mix of subjective reality and soul/mind manip. JJK characters don't lose that in cross verses lmao, it's apart of the verse ontology and powers.

It doesn't work on objects or people without CE that's why it's a limitation. They can't spam an attack because their mind work as a protection. Is there something that make it special ?

That's like me arguing that Vader loses all of his force amps outside of star wars. Which would pretty much make him a heavily disabled man who will die once his suit is damaged, something Sukuna could just do with pure physical strength.

From what I remember the force is universal while CE is limited to humans.

 

[Arkenis]

And why not?

That's what is said in the manga. Domain Amplification neutralizes the cursed technique via creating a domain around the user. If it could neutralize abilities not of jujutsu, like the Force then it would have been described more broadly to encompass such things, but it did not.

AFAIK, its not on Vaders profile yet

That's fine, the Force is still in everything, he'd be capable of directly affecting Sukuna.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I don't think we can say that we can say that the Force and Cursed Energy are equivalent to each other.

Cursed Energy is born of negative emotions. Without humanity to create those emotions, it doesn't exist. People who have Cursed Energy, have finite reserves (barring particular exceptions) as well.

The Force is in...everything. The air, the surroundings, in people, etc. There's even talk in-verse that the Force created the Galaxy itself. It's been around since people could record history and most likely predates it. Force Sensitives have effectively infinite energy to draw upon, but are limited by their own stamina and skill to employ it.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm surprised, flabbergasted, shocked, and amazed that the Force does not have a page to explain all of its abilities and how it functions within the verse. Are SW supporters just absent from the site?

 

[Tomfer]

Are SW supporters just absent from the site?

I think Legends has more activity than Canon, ngl.... So kinda? If we ever make a page & abilities for force-related things, profiles would look more clean, for sure.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I'm surprised, flabbergasted, shocked, and amazed that the Force does not have a page to explain all of its abilities and how it functions within the verse. Are SW supporters just absent from the site?

I think it's more of the fact that as the years have gone on, standards on the site have changed. Things like Physiology pages, or pages dedicated to verse specific mechanics are relatively recent despite being all but a norm now. Star Wars just...kinda got left behind. Plus, with all the crap going on with the series in recent years, there's not that much attention on it, I think.

Speaking needed pages. Not only does Star Wars need a page on the Force, it needs one for lightsaber combat. There are numerous styles, sub-styles and techniques and other things that need to detailed. Lightsaber combat is much more intricate than most would think, especially in the EU. It would inform a lot of how individuals would fight.

 

[Tomfer]

I think it's more of the fact that as the years have gone on, standards on the site have changed. Things like Physiology pages, or pages dedicated to verse specific mechanics are relatively recent despite being all but a norm now. Star Wars just...kinda got left behind

Yeah, that's also the case. SW was one of the first ever verses on the wiki (as you can clearly see by the state of the profiles, lmao). Verse-only powers and Physiology pages are somewhat a recent thing.

Speaking needed pages. Not only does Star Wars need a page on the Force, it needs one for lightsaber combat. There are numerous styles, sub-styles and techniques and other things that need to detailed. Lightsaber combat is much more intricate than most would think, especially in the EU. It would inform a lot of how individuals would fight.

Completely agree. (With that, we can finally say Vader skill-stomps)

 

[Tomfer]

So, for the versus... Any reasons why not just say "Precognition + Force Crush = gg"?

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Cursed Energy is born of negative emotions. Without humanity to create those emotions, it doesn't exist. People who have Cursed Energy, have finite reserves (barring particular exceptions) as well.

Cursed energy is propogated by sentient beings, not just humans. Animals have a natural level of CE as well, and obviously they predate humans. CE was also stated to give form to humans (sorceror and non-sorceror alike) and cursed spirits.

The rest is true and do have noteable differences but we don't know the full extent of CE either, but the above makes it clear it isn't some emergent property awoken by humans.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So, for the versus... Any reasons why not just say "Precognition + Force Crush = gg"?

Inner Domain negates organ crush.

 

[Tomfer]

Inner Domain negates organ crush.

Thought that was debunked a moment ago? Anyway, crush literally everything else? TK Sukuna towards for a saber combo? That Unknown LS gives Vader a good arsenal to play around.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Y'know I have half a mind to make a CRT to get "DONT USE THESE DOGSHIT PROFILES" as a note on every SW page

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Cursed energy is propogated by sentient beings, not just humans. Animals have a natural level of CE as well, and obviously they predate humans. CE was also stated to give form to humans (sorceror and non-sorceror alike) and cursed spirits.

Cursed energy is a byproduct of being sentient and not necessary to the individual.

Show me one animal that have CE naturally. It's literally an energy created from negative emotion that's why having emotion is not enough.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Cursed energy is a byproduct of being sentient and not necessary to the individual.

Show me one animal that have CE naturally. It's literally an energy created from negative emotion that's why having emotion is not enough.

Not to get involved, but I know Crows at the very least have Cursed Energy. Mei Mei's bird-strike makes the Cursed Energy inside of a crow explode for a Kamikaze attack.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Mei Mei's bird-strike makes the Cursed Energy inside of a crow explode for a Kamikaze attack.

That's why I said naturally.

Mei Mei crow is the only technique that include animals, but there is nothing that prove those crows naturally have CE and not a side effect of Mei Mei technique. We have Hanami using plants, but plants don't have CE or emotions, because CE and Cursed spirits are something limited to humans.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

the force is getting tier 1 upgrades...

No cap?

 

[LaserPrecision]

That's why I said naturally.

Mei Mei crow is the only technique that include animals, but there is nothing that prove those crows naturally have CE and not a side effect of Mei Mei technique. We have Hanami using plants, but plants don't have CE or emotions, because CE and Cursed spirits are something limited to humans.

Mei Mei's technique lets he control Crows. But they naturally have Cursed Energy. That's why her Bird Strike is stated to erase the normal limit of Cursed Energy a crow has. Implying they had Cursed Energy (Albeit a very weak amount) beforehand.

Plants don't have emotions. An intelligent bird like a Crow do have emotions (You can look that bit up if you don't believe me). And the research from that ironically comes from them displaying negative emotions (Sulking).

Can't say it's the same for EVERY animal since there's clearly intellectual disparity's, but Crows at the very least naturally have it.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Cursed energy is a byproduct of being sentient and not necessary to the individual.

Show me one animal that have CE naturally. It's literally an energy created from negative emotion that's why having emotion is not enough.

Yeah we went over this and you ignored evidence per usual.

Mei Mei literally "takes advantage of the crows naturaly low CE". Meaning crows naturally have CE. Unless you think crows are randomly the only animal to have this feature, then it implies all animals and things capable of negative emotions do. Curse energy is a priori to humans.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

But they naturally have Cursed Energy.

Scan?

An intelligent bird like a Crow do have emotions (You can look that bit up if you don't believe me). And the research from that ironically comes from them displaying negative emotions (Sulking).

I know and their behavior prove they are a menace to society. How many time I'll have to repeat this: negative emotion ≠ cursed energy, It's just a byproduct of it.

Can't say it's the same for EVERY animal since there's clearly intellectual disparity's, but Crows at the very least naturally have it.

Imagine if a the author added a dolphin.

Yeah we went over this and you ignored evidence per usual.

Maybe I missed it, can you repeat it?

Mei Mei literally "takes advantage of the crows naturaly low CE". Meaning crows naturally have CE. Unless you think crows are randomly the only animal to have this feature, then it implies all animals and things capable of negative emotions do. Curse energy is a priori to humans.

We can say that Mei Mei technique make a contract or a bow with crows and use them, we have objects with CE because they were imbued with it. Is there anything that proof all animals naturally have CE?

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Maybe I missed it, can you repeat it?

We can say that Mei Mei technique make a contract or a bow with crows and use them, we have objects with CE because they were imbued with it. Is there anything that proof all animals naturally have CE?

Sure, Mei Mei's cursed technique is not giving CE to birds, it's using her own CE to manipulate birds as, obviously, that is a natural thing she can just do.

Bird strike is an extension technique of crow manipulation which "erases the limit of a typically weak bird" (other translations state their naturally weak limit)in exchange for the crows life. Thus highlighting that A.) Crows have a natural limit to cursed energy production and B.) this limit is erased by sacrficing the crow's life.

Your conclusion is faulty because it assume her technique is to imbue crows with CE and also wouldn't explain the binding vow aspect as nothing is happening to mei Mei, the only thing involving her cursed energy is forcing the birds to commit suicide and controlling their movements. The vow impacts the bird and this allows it to break it's natural limit and pretty much mess up any non god tier it tags.

objects can't produce CE because they aren't sentient.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Sure, Mei Mei's cursed technique is not giving CE to birds, it's using her own CE to manipulate birds as, obviously, that is a natural thing she can just do.

You don't have any proof that it's natural.

Bird strike is an extension technique of crow manipulation which "erases the limit of a typically weak bird" (other translations state their naturally weak limit)in exchange for the crows life. Thus highlighting that A.) Crows have a natural limit to cursed energy production and B.) this limit is erased by sacrficing the crow's life.

You just proved there is some kind on contract like a familiar, and that those crows are not normal.
It's talking their stats limit, unless JJK peeps are equal to birds in strength, durability...

Your conclusion is faulty because it assume her technique is to imbue crows with CE and also wouldn't explain the binding vow aspect as nothing is happening to mei Mei, the only thing involving her cursed energy is forcing the birds to commit suicide and controlling their movements. The vow impacts the bird and this allows it to break it's natural limit and pretty much mess up any non god tier it tags

I might agree with this, but can you give me a single evidence that prove CE isn't limited to humans.

How does she control crows ?

objects can't produce CE because they aren't sentient.

They can be imbued with CE, that's I'm saying crows have the potential to use CE because of their intelligence, but they don't have it naturally.

Now all asking is proof or statment(not assumption) that says: animals have CE or CE isn't limited to humans.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

You don't have any proof that it's natural.

You just proved there is some kind on contract like a familiar, and that those crows are not normal.
It's talking their stats limit, unless JJK peeps are equal to birds in strength, durability...

I might agree with this, but can you give me a single evidence that prove CE isn't limited to humans.

How does she control crows ?

They can be imbued with CE, that's I'm saying crows have the potential to use CE because of their intelligence, but they don't have it naturally.

Now all asking is proof or statment(not assumption) that says: animals have CE or CE isn't limited to humans.

Brother, I am not going to break this down any further. Mei’s CT controls birds. Her binding vow places a condition on the bird whoch she circumvents by stripping it of it’s will. The naturally weak CE limit of the crow is eeased for power equivalent to a life. This is proven by the vow not impacting Mei (which it would if the crow was using her imbued CE and not its own) and only the crow.

Beings able to imbue objects with CE is irrelevant. They have 0 native CE amd thus no limit, which is directly opposed to what were told about the birds.

We’ll have to agree to disagree of that doesn’t sway you cause there isn’t really a way for me to break it down any more clearly

 

[DaReaperMan]

White, white. He's asking for scans. Not explanations.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

White, white. He's asking for scans. Not explanations.

I did scan the relevant panel. Read the post. Not answering someone’s begged question is not the same as not providing evidence.

 

[Quibster]

There isn't even a low-end for Sukuna's LS in this key?

It looks like Vader just kinda rags with TK

 

[Arkenis]

There isn't even a low-end for Sukuna's LS in this key?

It looks like Vader just kinda rags with TK

He's in Yuji's body so the very least class 5. Idk why its not there though. Pages forever unfinished

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

He's in Yuji's body so the very least class 5. Idk why its not there though. Pages forever unfinished

To be fair, JJK is undergoing massive revisions in addition to being in the final arc where we have numerous feats we have yet to add, and don't even get me started on speed.....

 

[Tomfer]

There isn't even a low-end for Sukuna's LS in this key?

It looks like Vader just kinda rags with TK

Yeah, Precognition + TK = GGs.

 

[Arkenis]

To be fair, JJK is undergoing massive revisions in addition to being in the final arc where we have numerous feats we have yet to add, and don't even get me started on speed.....

That doesn't matter, that's right now, the calc was made in 2021 lmao and never applied to his page.

 

[LaserPrecision]

You just proved there is some kind on contract like a familiar, and that those crows are not normal.
It's talking their stats limit, unless JJK peeps are equal to birds in strength, durability...

The comment about "erasing the Cursed Energy limit" of a bird implies Crows had a small Cursed Energy limit to begin with. And by sacrificing their lives, that limit vanishes and their Cursed Energy skyrockets to an extreme level.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

That doesn't matter, that's right now, the calc was made in 2021 lmao and never applied to his page.

Well skill issue for the wiki then

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The comment about "erasing the Cursed Energy limit" of a bird implies Crows had a small Cursed Energy limit to begin with. And by sacrificing their lives, that limit vanishes and their Cursed Energy skyrockets to an extreme level.

Yes, Mei Mei's crows have CE. Can you prove that all animal have CE?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yes, Mei Mei's crows have CE. Can you prove that all animal have CE?

Not all animals. That's why in my first comment I was only able to confidently claim that Crows have Cursed Energy:

Not to get involved, but I know Crows at the very least have Cursed Energy. Mei Mei's bird-strike makes the Cursed Energy inside of a crow explode for a Kamikaze attack.

Can't say it's the same for EVERY animal since there's clearly intellectual disparity's, but Crows at the very least naturally have it.

I would think only animals with the capacity to elicit emotions would have Cursed Energy, but that obviously doesn't encompass all animals.

That's just my 2 cents anyways.

 

[Arkenis]

Darth Vader:

Voting Vader.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Not all animals. That's why in my first comment I was only able to confidently claim that Crows have Cursed Energy:


I would think only animals with the capacity to elicit emotions would have Cursed Energy, but that obviously doesn't encompass all animals.

Agree with you, but it's just weird that everything JJK is dependent on human if all sentient being have CE. CE is not fundamental to a being but a side effect of having negative thoughts.

Voting Vader

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Voting for Vader.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Agree with you, but it's just weird that everything JJK is dependent on human if all sentient being have CE. CE is not fundamental to a being but a side effect of having negative thoughts.

That's fair, but I'd also note that said animals don't come close to posessing the same sentience as humans. It'd be unlikely for them to ever be the focal point of the story methinks. That's why I think they are hardly of any relevance.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Vader FRA I suppose