D&D AP CRT and other fun acronyms.

[Qawsedf234]

> High Hypersonic+ attack speed? Where does this come from?

They can tag Rangers/Monks/Rogues who can move that fast

> They'd have MHS reactions due to reacting to Lightning

I only think that counts if they react while 1 meter away. It takes lightning from call lightning 0.00006927272 seconds to reach the groud which is only High Hypersonic in terms of reaction speed .

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oooohhh right right right, you had your additional calc. And alright, I guess. High Hypersonic+ reactions seems fine to me. Drizzt should be as you said, of course.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'll apply the changes to the unlocked profiles then. For the Gods I believe only the Elf dude is a Ranger, so he'd be the only one with HH+ general speed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean

The gods are generally faster than mortals anyways, but alright.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Updated everyone who scales who doesn't have a locked profile

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Which ones are locked, so we can have them unlocked later?

 

[Qawsedf234]

All of the Gods, Orcus, and the Wizard.

 

[Udlmaster]

So, the Lady of Pain, what's going on with her?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bambu says that she should keep her current rating since Mystara and the prime D&D multiverses are seperate places. Also that Vecna could only have High Godly regen as a Overgod.

 

[Udlmaster]

For the Vecna part, that makes sense, to honest, I was more so focused on LoP getting High Godly since it really only applies to her.


As for the additions, I think the additions should go through for one: The Superspace feat.

As well as, even Azzy agreed that the Multiverse is the same multiverse, he even gave the statement that said they all take place in the same Multiverse.

To assert that they take place in a different multiverse, then we would need a statement to say that they take place in a different multiverse.

We know Greywhawk, Forgotten Realms, Planescape and so on all take place in the same Multiverse, Mystara is no different.

As well as D&D has been consistant in saying "THE Multiverse" never "a Multiverse", there has never been stated, to my knowledge, to be another Multiverse, ever.

 

[Qawsedf234]

My thing is that superspace could just be 5D. The dimensional vortex exist and it wouldn't be contradictory.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Except they inherently are different multiverses. My local car dealership never says "these are not all one car", but yet, there they are, separated and detached, with effects on one not being mimicked to another.

Azzy confirmed that Mystara does exist. But it is not the same place as Ao's realmspace. This is obvious in the fact that, again, there are literally no gods in Mystara.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I mean, yeah ots not in Realmspace. Same how Krynnspace or Greyspace is in Realmspace. Different crystal spheres. Nowadays they're in the same universal space.

But either way the feat can still happen with Mystara's system. The LOP just affected the first 5 dimensions.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Right, whatever. Arguing semantics. Point is, this is certainly not a higher dimensional feat.

 

[Udlmaster]

Okay, so eitherway, she still gets upgraded.

Either: At least High 2-A, possibly Low 1-C (Via scaling from Multiversal destruction and repairing.)

Or

At least High 2-A, possibly High 1-C (Via the Superspace feat, repairing the Multiverse etc.)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No? Her feat does not affect Mystara. In any way. That burden of Proof is on you. Otherwise why would we assume it does something it doesn't? Qawsed is saying it CAN. Not that it DOES.

Taking this feat out of context is not a good idea.

 

[Udlmaster]

-Affected ALL CREATION in her restricted form.


-Possibly affected the Far Realm


-Mystara stated to be apart of the Main Multiverse as is: "This book, the Player's Handbook, and the Monster Manual present the default assumptions for how the worlds of D&D work. Among the established settings of D&D, the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Mystara don't stray very far from those assumptions." - Dungeon Master's Guide (5e), pg 9


-We know Greyhawk, Planescape and Ravenloft are all apart of the same Multiverse, we then know that Sigil is present in all versions after 2e, like it being in 5e where said statement comes from where it STATES Mystara is in the main Settings.


-Affected "Superspace" which can have anywhere from 4 to 11, even infinite higher dimensions via Vector Space.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Realms near and far =/= Far Realm. Plus like I said the feat could still easily be High 2A due to the dimensional barrier.

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, do you have any statements that says it doesn't count the Far realm? It says Realms Near and Far, that's pretty clear in what it means.

Also, by going off the Superspace feat and all creation, she's beyond the Dimensional barrier.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

At least high 2-A, possibly High 1-B seems fine

 

[Qawsedf234]

The quote says "New realms, both near and far, are revealed, and realms previously never imagined make themselves known." It doesn't even mention affecting them in the quote, just that new planes and sub-planes are revealed. That doesn't indicate tier 1 status

All of creation could just be all of known creation. The LOP might not even be able to pierce the dimensional barrier. Without more evidence the only thing O would agree on would be a "at most High 1-C" rating.

 

[Udlmaster]

"All creation" means All creation, you can't just say: "Well it's just some of creation because The Dimensional barrier" which you just disproved via two things.

If she is High 1-C, or 11-D, then she's already beyond the Dimensional barrier.

Realms Near and Far are revealed, meaning she had to interact with them and affect them to reveal them.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I'm fine with possibly High 1-B, but not 1-A

 

[Qawsedf234]

But the thing is, everyone already knew about the Far Realm. It was a thing that had interacted with the multiverse. The most she would've done would be reveal that the Shadow Plane isn't a Demiplane or that there's a plane of dreams. The Far Realm doesn't get factored in.

She's not higher than High 1-C. Which is why I think a at most rating fits. Not like it limits her either.

 

[Udlmaster]

If she's not limited by the Dimensional barrier, as you agree she is higher than 5-D, then she would interact with all creation I.E all the infinite dimensions, which would make her High 1-B.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I don't agree with scaling her to the far realm, but it would make more sense for her to be High 1-B than high 1-C

 

[Udlmaster]

Of course, the Far Realm but is speculation at best, and is something to back up her being Infinite Dimensional, not the main meat.

If you get my jist.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't think it backs her being infinite dimensional. I think we shouldn't scale her to Mystara's space. The superspace thing in conjection with other scaling makes her High 2-A to High 1-C. I think that fits. Her being High 1-B just has no basis imo.

> as you agree she is higher than 5-D

I don't agree. I just said that its at most 11-D

 

[Udlmaster]

Same space, so yes, we should consider all the factors and not ignore examples.

Well, you think at most she's 11-D however, by being beyond 5-D, she is beyond the Dimensional Vortex, meaning when she affected all creation, she affected all creation with it's dimensions, as Dimensions count as apart of all creation.

She would have affected the Infinite Dimensions of the Multiverse when she affected All Creation and since we both think she's beyond just 5-D, you think she has a Max at 11-D, then she would have to be High 1-B.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Then I don't think she's 11-D. Her "at least High 2-A" rating is fine. The superspace feat can still be 5-D anyways.

 

[Udlmaster]

It could als obe Infinite Dimensional.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also, Qawsedf234, have you had the chance of reading "Dead Gods" yet? I'm looking for the Statement that Tenebrous was unable to Kill the Lady with the Last word.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. Realms near and far is literally poetic speech.

2. So Mystara exists just not here. Because there's nothing concretely saying it exists here. Like at all.

3. Asking for us to prove Realms Near and Far doesn't refer to Far realm is a fallacy. Burden of proof is on you as you are making the claim.

4. As Qawsed says, the Far realm was already known. Shoveling that in to her feats is flat out dishonest.

5. "It makes sense" is not an argument at all.

6. She doesn't have to have affected infinite dimensions! This isn't established fact, please, stop bending statements. The fact is, Lady has no showing of infinite dimensional potency and should not be treated as such. Lady did absolutely affect a High 2-A multiverse. But beyond that? Anything beyond that is taking the feat out of context to get higher results. That's dishonest and a mockery of the verse.

 

[Udlmaster]

1.) It could literally not just be poetic speech.

2.) Already accepted, multiple of the other settings are in the same Multiverse, assuming Mystara is because "I don't want it" really isn't a reason. Additionally, the 5E backs up this fact with saying it is apart of the Main Multiverse.

3.) Okay, let's break it down.

"Realms Near and Far"

We know realms means to the Planes of Existence such as the Inner, Outer and Far realms/Planes, all these have been constantly referred to as "Realms" and the wording doesn't stop here.

Near, so close by, this, going by the Map of Planescape would be the Outer Planes ,Outlands and the Ordinal Planes (?) and Astral Plane.

and Far, So everything further than the near, which would include the Inner Planes and beyond the Outerplanes would be the Far Realm.

4.) Not sure what you mean by this, yeah, we know it was already known.

5.) I know, just like "It fits" isn't an argument. And I don't think I ever said that either.

6.) I'm not bending statements, in fact, I'm rather afronted by the fact you're saying I'm being deceitful.

Affected All Creation, All creation include said Infinite Dimensions, said Infinite Dimensions where then affected, the Lady affecting Infinite Dimensions, being able to interact with Infinite Dimensions would be High 1-B.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also, Qawsedf234, have you had the chance of reading "Dead Gods" yet? I'm looking for the Statement that Tenebrous was unable to Kill the Lady with the Last word.

Here you go

> Outerplanes would be the Far Realm

Considering far wasn't capitilized and the Far Realm was already known its unlikely she did anything to it

> Affected All Creation

She affected a 4-dimensional space at the least yeah. But considering that Mystara is only vaguly acknowledged and superspace varies it could still be 5D. Plus there's not much supporting her being above the Dimensional Vortex.

 

[Udlmaster]

To be honest, I'm more then happy to have gone from an "No" to "Unlikely". I can work with "Unlikely" and am rather happy with it.

As for the link, thank you, I kept seeing the Vision part being thrown about but not that extra part where it says: "The Lady cannot be beaten in a Simple Brawl." so, thank you for that.

And again, I'm happy with an Upgrade from "Nothing" to "Not much", I'm glad I've made progress.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. But it is, that's a phrase that's used often. If a book read "Protagonist A is just over the moon", it doesn't mean they literally leapt over the moon and came back, just that they're happy.

2. Multiverses . As in plural. So again you're missing the point on this one.

3. See point one. We don't use poetic speech to justify ratings.

4/5. Not just replying to you, hence mass replies.

6. You being afronted is something I'd like to avoid, but I'd also like to avoid twisting statements to be most favorable to the verse to put the respective characters at higher levels of power than they rightfully have.

Saying "Possibly High 1-C" would be like putting "Possibly High 1-B" for all Pokemon because, hey, we don't have any statements saying they're not infinite dimensional.

 

[Udlmaster]

1. I don't think it's Poetic language, if I wanted to really wank the Lady of Pain, I'd bring up the "The Lady cannot simply be beaten in a Brawl." and say "Well, that means that no one in the verse can beat her, which includes the Old Ones which are possibly Infinite dimensional, therefore, she is Outerversal." But I'm not because that is obviously poetic language for "She very strong"

2. Where has it ever said MultiverseS? From my knowledge, it's only EVER said Multiverse.

3. I've said my piece for this.

4/5. Ah.

6. While true, there is a Statement saying she altered all Creation, while no one in Pokemon has such a feat. And we know the Multiverse has Higher dimensions, so affecting all creation would include those Higher Dimensions because of the fact it is apart of Creation.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. That would be if you were stupid, which you are not. NLF. That said, this is still poetic language and you have yet to prove it isn't whereas the lack of capitalization and it being a common phrase does prove it is more than likely, as said, fancy speech rather than an actual feat.

2. Yes. In guides. Not in lore statements. We have multiverses in the forms of spheres. The fact that it only said ONE Multiverse means she likely only affected ONE Multiverse. That's the point.

6. While not super important to my case, I would like to see this exact statement. Sorry if it was brought up somewhere up there. All creation in this one multiverse would be High 2-A. Because there are no higher dimensions here.

 

[Udlmaster]

1. It's not just that statement, but that with the statement of All creation which leads me to this conclusion, the two together does make the most sense, most of all because while the Far Realm is disconnected from Reality, it is not disconnected from All Creation and nor is it different from the phrase either.

2. Citation Needed.

6. Here you go: https://imgur.com/OPuYiOr