Primordial Hydra (D&D) Upgrades.

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The Primordial Hydra has a higher strength and intelligence rating than both of the other 4e Hydras as well as the Stone Golem, meaning it should get Class M and a mention that its smarter than the others in its intelligence section, possibly even being High Animalistic.

Edit: They also have a higher Challenge Rating/Level than all the normal Dragons in 4e besides the Ancient Blue, Red, Black and Green Dragons, meaning they should scale to or above the Elder Dragons rather than the Adult Dragons in power. For the record even going by current 5e the Ancient Red Dragon has a lower challenge rating than the Primordial Hydra as it has a 24 opposed to the Primordial Hydra's 25 even though the PH only shows up in 4e.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I just noticed that the Mordant Hydra has a higher level than most of the Adult Dragons in 4e as well, including the Adult Red Dragon we have at Low 7-B+.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Idk about the level stuff but seems good to me on the other fronts

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Idk about the level stuff but seems good to me on the other fronts

I only figured I'd mention it since Bambu told me we scale our profiles based on the Challenge Rating/Levels rather than the actual stat blocks.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[Qawsedf234]

4e is the following with CR conversions

Lvl 1-6: 9-B
Lvl 7-12: 9-A
Lvl 13-15: 8-C
lvl 16-18: At least High 8-C, likely 8-B, possibly 8-A
Lvl 19-26: Low 7-B
Lvl 27+: 6-C

For the Hydra it scaling to Class M looks fine.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

4e is the following with CR conversions

For the Hydra it scaling to Class M looks fine.

Then the Mordant should be in the same boat as the Base Hydra since it's Level 18, which if anything is actually higher level than the Adult Red Dragon we have at Low 7-B+ which is only Level 15 in 4e. Also that still doesn't change the fact that we're scaling the Primordial Hydra to the wrong Dragons as its significantly higher level than the Adult Dragons it's being Scaled to on the profile as it's closer to Ancient Dragon Level.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Level scaling is lower in terms of priority than CR since it's less stable- more variables and inconsistencies arise from it. For creatures present across multiple editions of D&D, we would look first to CR, not levels (4e) or XP (2e and earlier).

As pointed out, the Primordial Hydra obviously wouldn't scale to the Ancient Red (or, more appropriately, Imix, who is the scaling point for that tier) but Class M is fine.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Level scaling is lower in terms of priority than CR since it's less stable- more variables and inconsistencies arise from it. For creatures present across multiple editions of D&D, we would look first to CR, not levels (4e) or XP (2e and earlier).

As pointed out, the Primordial Hydra obviously wouldn't scale to the Ancient Red (or, more appropriately, Imix, who is the scaling point for that tier) but Class M is fine.

Can we at least fix the Mordant Hydra as it's Level 18 yet doesn't scale to the Base Hydra despite being stronger than it? Also what about the intelligence stuff I mentioned?

Edit: How do you convert 4e Levels to 5e Challenge Ratings? I want to see what a Level 25 like the Primordial Hydra would be in 5e.

 

[Qawsedf234]

How do you convert 4e Levels to 5e Challenge Ratings? I want to see what a Level 25 like the Primordial Hydra would be in 5e.

You find the equivalent monster in that edition mostly. It's what the rating in 4e were based on, by finding Imix, legendary dragons, etc in 4e and seeing where they were rated at.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You find the equivalent monster in that edition mostly. It's what the rating in 4e were based on, by finding Imix, legendary dragons, etc in 4e and seeing where they were rated at.

The Primordial Hydra doesn't really exist in 5e but if I follow the conversions I'm seeing compared to all the other monsters that do exist in both then the Primordial is still way higher level than Legendary Dragons and even the 5e version of Imix which is weird since Imix's level actually went down compared to the vast majority of the other monsters.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In 4e, Imix is a level 32 compared to the Hydra's 25- it can't scale to him. I know they move the goalposts around a lot but there's not much we can do except roll with it. The Primordial Hydra's best scaling puts it at Low 7-B.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

In 4e, Imix is a level 32 compared to the Hydra's 25- it can't scale to him. I know they move the goalposts around a lot but there's not much we can do except roll with it. The Primordial Hydra's best scaling puts it at Low 7-B.

Can we at least say it upscales noticeably from the Legendary Dragons since it is still higher level than all the Elder Dragons?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You could, although I will note that "Elder" isn't an age category taken from other editions with a 1:1 with them- if it just means "old", most old dragons are still Low 7-B. Red dragons are a notable exception in terms of strength, a trait they share with gold dragons.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You could, although I will note that "Elder" isn't an age category taken from other editions with a 1:1 with them- if it just means "old", most old dragons are still Low 7-B. Red dragons are a notable exception in terms of strength, a trait they share with gold dragons.

I see.... I'll accept just saying it upscales then. How do you feel about the Intelligence stuff?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Don't have an issue with High Animalistic for specifically the Primordial key, seems fair with a 4 Intelligence rating.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Don't have an issue with High Animalistic for specifically the Primordial key, seems fair with a 4 Intelligence rating.

Epic. Last thing before I start editing stuff, how do you feel about the Mordant Hydra scaling to the Base Hydra's High 8-C/8-B/8-A stuff since it's Level 18 like Qawsed mentioned?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It doesn't "scale" to the base Hydra, they all scale to the same feats (those being various spells that we never decided which one to use exclusively), but yeah, upgrading it to that tier is fine

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It doesn't "scale" to the base Hydra, they all scale to the same feats (those being various spells that we never decided which one to use exclusively), but yeah, upgrading it to that tier is fine

Well you know what I was going for. I'm any case I believe I have enough staff support to begin updating, correct?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Aye, me and Qawsedf are more than sufficient. Go ham.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Aye, me and Qawsedf are more than sufficient. Go ham.

Thanks. Can you edit the actual tier section itself though since I don't know how to change the templates?

Edit: Shouldn't all the Hydras have Extended Melee Range via their sheer size instead of just Standard Melee Range?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, weird that they don't, feel free to fix that while you're in there. I can do the template I suppose.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, weird that they don't, feel free to fix that while you're in there. I can do the template I suppose.

Thanks.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Is there anything else on the Hydra profile we missed before this thread is closed?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Is there anything else on the Hydra profile we missed before this thread is closed?

I think we're done here unless someone wants to add something else?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I think we're done here unless someone wants to add something else?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I got nothin', close?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I got nothin', close?

Sounds good to me.