(Complete Saint Seiya verse Overhaul Part 1) - Perhaps one of the top 10 most ambitious overhauls to a verse in vswiki history?

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Whichever link I click throws me into a user blog and no scans. Also, even if they are statements, 5D, Aca5 and NEP2 are not enough. At best Aca4 to NEP1 and I haven't seen anything that references and R>F transcendence. Apart from that, Transduality is debatable.

Well, I guess I'm close to disagreeing with that, what about immeasurable speed?

 

[Georredannea15]

Well, I guess I'm close to disagreeing with that, what about immeasurable speed?

So, obviously the revision is very messy and being 5D doesn't mean it's Immeasurable speed. You have to be faster than a linear time or exceed the concept of time.

Sorry but it doesn't have 5D or any R>F features and it won't be immeasurable speed even if you are 5D this way. Apart from that, having the causality of time and being independent of this time is definitely not Type 5 Causality. At best, Type 4 and NEP2 are just NEP1. Transduality is controversial.

I can explain in more detail if you want.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So, obviously the revision is very messy and being 5D doesn't mean it's Immeasurable speed. You have to be faster than a linear time or exceed the concept of time.

Sorry but it doesn't have 5D or any R>F features and it won't be immeasurable speed even if you are 5D this way. Apart from that, having the causality of time and being independent of this time is definitely not Type 5 Causality. At best, Type 4 and NEP2 are just NEP1. Transduality is controversial.

I can explain in more detail if you want.

Seems fair to me, I came across some links mentioned and it talks about higher dimension (mathematics)



I know absolutely nothing about Tier 1, but I also think that Saint Seiya doesn't get Tier 1 either, I really agree with you

 

[Hasty12345]

Whichever link I click throws me into a user blog and no scans. Also, even if they are statements, 5D, Aca5 and NEP2 are not enough. At best Aca4 to NEP1 and I haven't seen anything that references and R>F transcendence. Apart from that, Transduality is debatable.

All the blogs have heaps of scans for me?

idk about any of the 8th sense stuff, but none of it is on any profile and there’s heaps of scans in the blogs and in the crt writing itself.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Whichever link I click throws me into a user blog and no scans. Also, even if they are statements, 5D, Aca5 and NEP2 are not enough. At best Aca4 to NEP1 and I haven't seen anything that references and R>F transcendence. Apart from that, Transduality is debatable.

It's almost as if the blog is part of the justification of the proposed revisions
But fr, if the links are broken we should let OP know.
In any case, the OP proposes that Hero of Heroes is canon, in which case yes, we do have a case of R>F although scans for the manga should be listed in the OP.

 

[Georredannea15]

It's almost as if the blog is part of the justification of the proposed revisions
But fr, if the links are broken we should let OP know.
In any case, the OP proposes that Hero of Heroes is canon, in which case yes, we do have a case of R>F although scans for the manga should be listed in the OP.

So can you explain that to me with scans? Because the OP is so confused and I don't think you're going to get a 5D with these statements. Also even if it was 5D it still wouldn't be Immeasurable. (Btw, I'm not a hater. I am extremely objective and neutral towards this verse.)

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

holy ....

 

[AlexZiggy]

So can you explain that to me with scans? Because the OP is so confused and I don't think you're going to get a 5D with these statements. Also even if it was 5D it still wouldn't be Immeasurable. (Btw, I'm not a hater. I am extremely objective and neutral towards this verse.)

I'm not defending immeasurable as I don't know enough about it to comment, but the scans for Karma and the 5D stuff are there so it might be a problem on your end. I do think the HoH scans are missing though so we need to wait for OP to add them or format the CRT accordingly.

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

@SSJGeminiJJ are you saying 8th sense shoukd scale to all gold Saints in the classic during Hades Arc, and it does Not that it grants any form of regen?

Pretty much this is how I see it, the Golds all seemingly have the 8th sense but the regen part is very wonky depending on how you see it, so it giving them immortality instead of resurrection + regen would fit.

 

[Georredannea15]

I'm not defending immeasurable as I don't know enough about it to comment, but the scans for Karma and the 5D stuff are there so it might be a problem on your end. I do think the HoH scans are missing though so we need to wait for OP to add them or format the CRT accordingly.

I see, it's okay. But I'm sorry that according to the statements in the OP it should definitely be NEP1 and Acausality Type 4, not NEP2 and Type 5(I'll read it again to be sure) Other than that, I did not find the 5D contexts sufficient. But if you have more context feel free to write it to the OP.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I see, it's okay. But I'm sorry that according to the statements in the OP it should definitely be NEP1 and Acausality Type 4, not NEP2 and Type 5(I'll read it again to be sure) Other than that, I did not find the 5D contexts sufficient. But if you have more context feel free to write it to the OP.

Why Acausality type 4 and NEP 1?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I'll respond in detail to things later.

At work atm

 

[Georredannea15]

Why Acausality type 4 and NEP 1?

I will explain.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Where exactly does it say that it transcends the multiverse with R>F, or with what statement did you come to this conclusion? I didn't see that in the OP. I also disagree with Acausality Type 5 and NEP2. I'm also notr on Transduality Type 2, but; I disagree with 5D, Acausality Type 5 and NEP2.

OP is very confused. There is no scanning, it's only done with what is written in the profiles. Interesting.

The reason for Tier is because "The Universe" is encased in a higher dimensional membrane.

The Soul and Mind both are ascended into a different state of dimensionality when the 8th stage of consciousness is awakened.

This allows both the mind and soul to escape the membrane of "The Universe," the character then gains Cosmic Awareness where they know everything because their Soul and Mind Transcended space as well as time.

This higher dimensional perspective with their mind allows them to see the multiverse, and existences within in it.

Something to take note of is that "Time" is also transcended with the mind, and because of that. The character gained Cosmic awareness. Not only are they percieving the multiverse, but their perceiving the causality continuum of every Universe in the muiltiverse that includes past, present, and future and all the infinite branches. This is elaborated by the oracle delphi.

さて...　Well then... 未来は現在の事象を積み上げ　The future is built upon the events of the present 今こうしてる間にも枝分かれて未来は無限に広がります　Even now, the future is spreading out into infinite branches

一陣の風然り　Be it a gust of wind 一滴の水然り　Or a drop of water 一人の人間の心もまた要因の一つ　A single person'd heart may also be one of those causes 未来とはそれらを重ねた結果なのです　What we call time is the result of all these cumulative events それ故世界に魂を飛ばせば感じるのです　For this reason I can feel it when a soul is let fly into the world 流動的に変化する事象の中でも最も起こり得る事象未来の一片を　Even in the midst of the flowing, changing events, it is the piece that is the most likely to cause a change in the future

In conclusion because their minds was elevated to a new dimensional axis they can now see the whole multiverse and everything within it.

I didn't see that in the OP. I also disagree with Acausality Type 5 and NEP2. I'm also notr on Transduality Type 2, but; I disagree with 5D, Acausality Type 5 and NEP2.

OP is very confused. There is no scanning, it's only done with what is written in the profiles. Interesting.

Acausality Type 5 is explained here. By achieving the 8th stage of consciousness the Soul and Mind has achieved a state of Unchangness. Which is literally what Acausality Type 5 is about see these links [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

As for NEP 2, i was reading the definetion for it

1. Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. Characters of this type often have some low degree of Transduality due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

I was looking at the 2 bolded parts there for it. This is because the 8th sense is the "Framework" that makes up an invididual person. It contains their Karma, History, narrative in the plot, Life force, Essence, Soul, mind, etc etc etc.

But that would also include "Dunamis." Which is a primordial Nothingness that precedes creation, and all worlds is made of this stuff. This ties into the concept of Sunyata which is mentioned in LC, and WoG. Quoting myself from the blog i made. Thus, my train of thought was a state of nothingness beyond an already established primordial nothingness that precedes creation was achieved.

The Concept of Sunyata was first mentioned in an interview statement by Kurumada. He was asked about how difficult it was to create the Gold Saints, and he stated that Virgo Shaka was the most difficult. He wanted to capture the idea of Enlightenment with Virgo Shaka, and have his character bring forth a sense of impermanence, and emptiness.[35] This concept of “Sunyata” is most blatant in the story of “Saint Seiya - The Lost Canvas: Gaidens” as the very concept is directly stated, and is shown to us.[1] Regulus sees the very principle of the world. He sees that everything is empty, and bound by chains of Karma.[36] This idea also plays a big part into Virgo Shaka's character as he is often described as being able to see reality for what it is, and able to see the truth of the Universe. In the Saint Seiya: Episode G series, we learn that the Universe is made of "Dunamis." Dunamis is the primordial nothingness[37] that is "chaos" which makes up the makes up all "forms" of "The Universe."[38] All the material in "The Universe" including everything beneath the characters feet is made from "Dunamis" which also expands "The Universe". [39] This means with the 8th Stage of Consciousness awakened you can see that the world is made up of "Dunamis," and bound by the concept of "Karma." This shows a relationship between the idea of "Sunyata" and "Dunamis" within the series.

What was the other issues here? I just got home and i will be busy soon.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I will explain.

Are you able to view any scans btw?

 

[Danny33wise]

Obviously agree with op on this. But i do think the discussion about 8th sense regeneration ability should be selective and given to shaka since he has an immense mastery over said sense.

 

[Hasty12345]

Obviously agree with op on this. But i do think the discussion about 8th sense regeneration ability should be selective and given to shaka since he has an immense mastery over said sense.

where's that coming from though? Kanon and Dohko arguably have greater mastery given they could also go to the UW without the need of a death wish, they kind of make Shaka look like an idiot.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Obviously agree with op on this. But i do think the discussion about 8th sense regeneration ability should be selective and given to shaka since he has an immense mastery over said sense.

He hasn't reappeared as a fully living body in ND. I disagree with it.

 

[Hasty12345]

He hasn't reappeared as a fully living body in ND. I disagree with it.

• 8th sense allows for low godly regen and resurrection
• all 12 Gold Saint go back in time to save baby Athena
• none of them resurrect to help the bronzes or Athena against the Odysseus threat

based Gold Saints?

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[Ped2018]

• 8th sense allows for low godly regen and resurrection
• all 12 Gold Saint go back in time to save baby Athena
• none of them resurrect to help the bronzes or Athena against the Odysseus threat

based Gold Saints?

bros before hoes

 

[Georredannea15]

The reason for Tier is because "The Universe" is encased in a higher dimensional membrane.

The Soul and Mind both are ascended into a different state of dimensionality when the 8th stage of consciousness is awakened.

The only thing that is clearly stated in the scan is that the higher dimension is beyond the and the souls of the deceased ascend here, but there is no mention of the membrane being higher dimensional. There's an HDE for souls here, but I don't think it's 5D because it doesn't talk about being higher dimensional for membrane, and souls in that case would just be 4D

This allows both the mind and soul to escape the membrane of "The Universe," the character then gains Cosmic Awareness where they know everything because their Soul and Mind Transcended space as well as time.

I'm sorry but, without further context, this phrase "beyond space-time" seems to be used only in the context of being greater/superior than the Multiverse. So it's not dimensional .

This higher dimensional perspective with their mind allows them to see the multiverse, and existences within in it.

Something to take note of is that "Time" is also transcended with the mind, and because of that. The character gained Cosmic awareness. Not only are they percieving the multiverse, but their perceiving the causality continuum of every Universe in the muiltiverse that includes past, present, and future and all the infinite branches. This is elaborated by the oracle delphi.





In conclusion because their minds was elevated to a new dimensional axis they can now see the whole multiverse and everything within it.


Acausality Type 5 is explained here. By achieving the 8th stage of consciousness the Soul and Mind has achieved a state of Unchangness. Which is literally what Acausality Type 5 is about see these links [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

What I can say for this here is that everything in the universe depends on a cause and effect. Yes, that's true, but you have to prove that "cause-effect" relationships in this universe include all cause-effect nature and the whole concept of causality.

Otherwise it would only be Acausality type 4. This is basically why it is so difficult to qualify for Acausality Type 5.

NEP 2'ye gelince, onun tanımını okuyordum.



I was looking at the 2 bolded parts there for it. This is because the 8th sense is the "Framework" that makes up an invididual person. It contains their Karma, History, narrative in the plot, Life force, Essence, Soul, mind, etc etc etc.

But that would also include "Dunamis." Which is a primordial Nothingness that precedes creation, and all worlds is made of this stuff. This ties into the concept of Sunyata which is mentioned in LC, and WoG. Quoting myself from the blog i made. Thus, my train of thought was a state of nothingness beyond an already established primordial nothingness that precedes creation was achieved.

Here primordial nothingness is simply like "being-non-existence". So you have a existent but you are also a non-existence. That would be Type 1 only. Because I couldn't see anything like "going beyond non-existence". or "lack of dual existence" in the contexts shown. Just a primitive nothingness. Looks like Type 1 at best. (At least when I look at your browsing and contexts)

What was the other issues here? I just got home and i will be busy soon.

I have a few more things to write about Transduality. Other than that, I hope I don't look like a "hater" because I'm completely neutral towards this verse.

 

[Hasty12345]

You’re the only one who seems to think you’re coming across as a hater bro relax

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I disagree with FRA, Tier 1 has always been a warped idea of us fans, but given the arguments, this doesn't seem like 5D.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think the rest should be fine, like type 5 immortality for everyone who manipulates the 8th sense.

You’re the only one who seems to think you’re coming across as a hater bro relax

It is very difficult to qualify for Tier 1, you have to have a lot of information about it, but I think if the Ultima come here I think she can better evaluate this.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think the rest should be fine, like type 5 immortality for everyone who manipulates the 8th sense.

It is very difficult to qualify for Tier 1, you have to have a lot of information about it, but I think if the Ultima come here I think she can better evaluate this.

I asked Ultima earlier today for a review.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I asked Ultima earlier today for a review.

Thankfully, let's wait for her, she has a lot of knowledge on this subject, I want this to pass and be as complete as possible.

 

[RaveeCPN]

I am not very interested in this, but there are places where I disagree- Likewise there are places where I am a little uncertain

And honestly, I don't know if I should state these things and participate in discussion

 

[Hasty12345]

I am not very interested in this, but there are places where I disagree- Likewise there are places where I am a little uncertain

And honestly, I don't know if I should state these things and participate in discussion

Any input is welcome input.

As long as you agree with everything I agree with.

 

[Georredannea15]

You’re the only one who seems to think you’re coming across as a hater bro relax

Hehe. Thanks dude.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I am not very interested in this, but there are places where I disagree- Likewise there are places where I am a little uncertain

And honestly, I don't know if I should state these things and participate in discussion

We need a lot of contribution, I think all help is needed.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Imma update the op later theb message mire people

 

[StekFence]

I'm sorry but, without further context, this phrase "beyond space-time" seems to be used only in the context of being greater/superior than the Multiverse. So it's not dimensional .

The context would be the previous 8th sense scans, it’s the Same few chapters of the manga. Take all three scans together, you have the soul/mind transcending space and time, into a higher mathematical dimension. The scan below those three shows they can perceive the whole Multiverse, which is consistent with their mind/soul being above the whole thing.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Okay then;

First of all, I'm a bit suspicious about L1-C. The statements seem to refer only to their cosmic awareness rather than a qualitative superiority in terms of AP (strength). Because it is mentioned that their transcendence of space-time allows them to know everything. You need to support that this is in terms of strength etc. Also, the statement of being higher dimensional than the membrane of the Universe does not say that the membrane is higher dimensional, but rather that the place they are in is higher dimensional than the membrane. And honestly, I didn't see anything about the dimensionality of the membrane in the scans- I would appreciate it if you could correct me if I'm wrong.

+

What you are saying for Acausality Type 5 is simply Type 4. For Type 5 you need to be independent of any causal system that there is and can be. Just being independent of one is not enough for Type 5.

Other than that, I don't think there's anything I disagree with. And since I'm not very interested, I haven't looked carefully- And I am a bit lazy too ngl. So I apologize if I've missed anything.

 

[StekFence]

First of all, I'm a bit suspicious about L1-C. The statements seem to refer only to their cosmic awareness rather than a qualitative superiority in terms of AP (strength). Because it is mentioned that their transcendence of space-time allows them to know everything. You need to support that this is in terms of strength etc.

the op isn’t trying to argue ap using the 8th sense. Inverse, the 8th sense gives a power boost, but it’s nothing Tier jumping. It’s their soul and Mind that would be 5D only.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I'll respond to these once I got a moment

 

[RaveeCPN]

It’s their soul and Mind that would be 5D only.

I think what I have said will still apply to their souls and minds. There is nothing in the scans to support qualitative superiority.

 

[StekFence]

Here primordial nothingness is simply like "being-non-existence". So you have a existent but you are also a non-existence. That would be Type 1 only. Because I couldn't see anything like "going beyond non-existence". or "lack of dual existence" in the contexts shown. Just a primitive nothingness. Looks like Type 1 at best. (At least when I look at your browsing and contexts)

I believe, and the op can correct me if I’m wrong, but Dunamis is shown to be primordial nothingness. that would be erased and reduced to nothingness, when the 9th sense is achieved, along with the other things. Thus, it would be a nothingness beyond nothingness, because it erased primordial nothingness.

 

[Georredannea15]

The context would be the previous 8th sense scans, it’s the Same few chapters of the manga. Take all three scans together, you have the soul/mind transcending space and time, into a higher mathematical dimension. The scan below those three shows they can perceive the whole Multiverse, which is consistent with their mind/soul being above the whole thing.

These space-time transcendents do not refer to any spatial or mathematical dimension other than statement. Only mathematically higher dimensional than the dice. I can easily say this.

 

[Georredannea15]

I believe, and the op can correct me if I’m wrong, but Dunamis is shown to be primordial nothingness. that would be erased and reduced to nothingness, when the 9th sense is achieved, along with the other things. Thus, it would be a nothingness beyond nothingness, because it erased primordial nothingness.

I disagreed NEP2 as I couldn't see this in scans. Because it wasn't written when I read it.