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The scans are in the blog because theose abilities will be linked to the blog
Edit: though I should link the proper sections of the blog. I'll do that later once I have time
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(Complete Saint Seiya verse Overhaul Part 1) - Perhaps one of the top 10 most ambitious overhauls to a verse in vswiki history?
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Edit: though I should link the proper sections of the blog. I'll do that later once I have time
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I don't understand about tier 1 debating, so neutral until an admin or knowledgeable member comments.
There is also the fact of the translation
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I have added links to the relevant areas that correlates to the proposed proposal for each blog to make things easier for people
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Just because something contradicts a preconceived interpretation made from taking certain details removed from the full picture or from separate works not written by Kurumada prone to contradicting canon doesn’t mean it’s PIS. The 8th sense does grant regeneration and the power to resurrect and the only changes it needs from what’s already accepted is who has it (should be removed from the gods and the Bronze Saints unless one time usages count for the profiles).
Hasty12345
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If gold Saint could just resurrect beyond the ability to exist as incorporeal souls (which in reality is all they’ve shown to do) due to the 8th sense then why didn’t they all come back after the wailing wall to help fight Hades?
or better yet, why didn’t they all just revive themselves to help Athena save Seiya?
it just blatantly doesn’t work. They’ve only been shown to exist as souls, and resurrection only comes from the fact the Shaka scene is grossly misinterpreted, relying on a retconned author statement and a two decade old preconception of what the 8th sense does that pretty much amounts to fan fiction at this point.
or better yet, why didn’t they all just revive themselves to help Athena save Seiya?
it just blatantly doesn’t work. They’ve only been shown to exist as souls, and resurrection only comes from the fact the Shaka scene is grossly misinterpreted, relying on a retconned author statement and a two decade old preconception of what the 8th sense does that pretty much amounts to fan fiction at this point.
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What’s actually been shown is Shaka clearly being alive and stated to be alive after dying, Saori regenerating fatal damage to her body along with coming back to life, and the Gold Saints being both shown and stated to have resurrected at the Wailing Wall. What’s actually been stated that one has to be alive in the Underworld to resist its laws, which characters who died were doing after arriving there, almost as if they were alive.
The Gold Saints don’t have the blessing of a god to suggest they could even survive in the Superdimension, let alone cross it and reach Elysion. And as I said the last time this topic was brought up these minor characterization inconsistencies disproving what 8th sense users did is non sequitur, and are just those at worst. In the case they could actually reach Elysion the Gold Saints being unreasonable individuals is the explanation before what the 8th sense was objectively shown capable of is invalid now. Not to mention that considering what Next Dimension shows their souls capable of, these characterization plot holes exist even if you think 8th sense users only exist as souls. It’s meaningless to the point either way.
The Gold Saints don’t have the blessing of a god to suggest they could even survive in the Superdimension, let alone cross it and reach Elysion. And as I said the last time this topic was brought up these minor characterization inconsistencies disproving what 8th sense users did is non sequitur, and are just those at worst. In the case they could actually reach Elysion the Gold Saints being unreasonable individuals is the explanation before what the 8th sense was objectively shown capable of is invalid now. Not to mention that considering what Next Dimension shows their souls capable of, these characterization plot holes exist even if you think 8th sense users only exist as souls. It’s meaningless to the point either way.
Hasty12345
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The amount of head canon here is absurd.
Shaka dying is one of the biggest misconception this fandom has ever perpetuated.
his death causes more plot holes than there are holes in Swiss cheese.
he’s stated multiple times to have entered the UW alive, which unlike your interpretation of “dying them coming back alive to go to the afterlife”, what actually happened was “he didn’t die and went to the UW alive”.
this is confirmed to us by Dohko when he explains Shaka’s goal, it’s told to us at the wailing wall when the Virgo gold cloth is one of the cloths that had bathed in the sun since the age of myth, something that could not have happened if it was reduced to nothingness like I suppose you’d have us believe. Or better yet, and this is my favourite, Shun wearing a “soul cloth”, which is absolutely hilarious.
so no, Shaka could not have died, his death is a contradicted interpretation perpetuated by a fandom that doesn’t understand what a “plot twist” or “reveal” is, that being Shaka didn’t die, he awoke the 8th sense and went to the UW alive.
Shaka dying is one of the biggest misconception this fandom has ever perpetuated.
his death causes more plot holes than there are holes in Swiss cheese.
he’s stated multiple times to have entered the UW alive, which unlike your interpretation of “dying them coming back alive to go to the afterlife”, what actually happened was “he didn’t die and went to the UW alive”.
this is confirmed to us by Dohko when he explains Shaka’s goal, it’s told to us at the wailing wall when the Virgo gold cloth is one of the cloths that had bathed in the sun since the age of myth, something that could not have happened if it was reduced to nothingness like I suppose you’d have us believe. Or better yet, and this is my favourite, Shun wearing a “soul cloth”, which is absolutely hilarious.
so no, Shaka could not have died, his death is a contradicted interpretation perpetuated by a fandom that doesn’t understand what a “plot twist” or “reveal” is, that being Shaka didn’t die, he awoke the 8th sense and went to the UW alive.
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thats a good one
Hasty12345
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The best part is a character in the sequel manga, a known 8th sense user has outright stated no one can come back from the dead, but some people would have us believe 8th sense users can just up and come back to life like that doesn’t break the whole manga.
what 8th sense users can do and what’s been shown is to exist as an incorporeal soul that can leave nirvana when needed/want to.
which we’ve seen Shaka do twice and every other gold Saint do once.
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Shaka, who was hit by an attack that was a guaranteed kill on him, who's death is confirmed by the Taizen, is dead on panel (Shura even swung through him to confirm it) and dissipates as a soul, Saori who reiterates the fact that he died even after realizing the truth behind his death and the 8th sense from his message, Saori who then copies his routine 1:1 and does in fact, kill herself and comes back to life before going to the Underworld, absolutely died.
Dohko doesn't reveal any sort of plot twist, considering that in the same explanation he confirms that the 8th sense emerges at the moment of the death. and when he says that line, Shiryu responds to it with the Japanese equivalent of "in that case" (in other words, the following statement is in accordance with Dohko's statement of the 8th sense emerging at death) followed up with surmising that Shaka and Saori must've awakened it.
Dohko doesn't reveal any sort of plot twist, considering that in the same explanation he confirms that the 8th sense emerges at the moment of the death. and when he says that line, Shiryu responds to it with the Japanese equivalent of "in that case" (in other words, the following statement is in accordance with Dohko's statement of the 8th sense emerging at death) followed up with surmising that Shaka and Saori must've awakened it.
Hasty12345
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Guaranteed to kill him? Lmao, gold cloths have survived the clash of two Athena Exclamation’s, which boost their power infinitely. There’s absolutely nothing “guaranteed” by your interpretation, especially when it hinges on the gold cloth also being destroyed which it very much isn’t.
Shura swings at what can be described as an astral projection/illusion/or as I’ve said previously, what the 8th sense actually allows the user to do and that’s exist as a soul.
what Shaka DIDNT DO was revive himself in front of everyone regenerating his body and resurrecting himself.
and you keep using Athena as a sort of measuring stick when gods in this franchise have shown to be able to regenerate. It has nothing to do with the 8th sense, comparing Shaka to Athena is wildly incorrect.
Shura swings at what can be described as an astral projection/illusion/or as I’ve said previously, what the 8th sense actually allows the user to do and that’s exist as a soul.
what Shaka DIDNT DO was revive himself in front of everyone regenerating his body and resurrecting himself.
and you keep using Athena as a sort of measuring stick when gods in this franchise have shown to be able to regenerate. It has nothing to do with the 8th sense, comparing Shaka to Athena is wildly incorrect.
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I don’t agree with this, since when Shun wears it, and Thanatos destroys it, it’s stated to been the first time it was destroyed. So when shaka gets hit by the AE, he cannot have possibly been disintegrated along with his cloth. I think it’s way more likely that he went to the underworld alive, considering that’s what everybody else did, except Athena obviously, but it’s pretty hard to scale her abilities to shakas.
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Yes, it was guaranteed to kill him since knowledgable fellow Gold Saints (even ones canonically stronger than him) know so, the fact that Gold Saints can be hurt and killed by way weaker attacks, and the fact that Shaka says to himself he'll die taking them on even before AE was in his equation. It takes AOT ending defender mental gymnastics to think a character would lie talking to himself. Shiryu literally blew away the AE towards the sky and it didn't hit anyone. I can't believe you try to poke plotholes in 8th sense users being able to revive while somehow thinking Gold Cloths can tank AEs, something that would ceate more plotholes with the story than anything I've ever heard regarding the story.
"Exist as a soul" so did he die or not? But yeah, he was a soul in that moment, because he died.
Definitely not the case for the goddess in a regular human body Saori as also evident in the all the reactions from everyone (not just the Saints, the Underworld army's side too), she took her own life to awaken the 8th sense in the first place in the act of mimicking Shaka, and came back to life, something she clearly wasn't capable of prior.
But let's say even if that were really case (despite the ridiculous scaling inconsistencies it would create to believe that the Virgo Cloth would tank an AE), that still wouldn't prove that by some plot twist all the talk about Shaka dying was a lie, since Gold Saints can die from the force of attacks that don't destroy the Cloth.
"Exist as a soul" so did he die or not? But yeah, he was a soul in that moment, because he died.
Definitely not the case for the goddess in a regular human body Saori as also evident in the all the reactions from everyone (not just the Saints, the Underworld army's side too), she took her own life to awaken the 8th sense in the first place in the act of mimicking Shaka, and came back to life, something she clearly wasn't capable of prior.
Maybe if Shiryu said it (since he was actually there), but Hyoga at that time wasn't even on the scene for the AEs to exactly know that information. 3 Gold Saints on scene confirming the Virgo Cloth should've been annihilated and not being the least bit surprised when given the impression it was when Shura swung through him>>>.
But let's say even if that were really case (despite the ridiculous scaling inconsistencies it would create to believe that the Virgo Cloth would tank an AE), that still wouldn't prove that by some plot twist all the talk about Shaka dying was a lie, since Gold Saints can die from the force of attacks that don't destroy the Cloth.
Hasty12345
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Just “lol”.
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May i ask why?
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I disagree about the 8th sense FRA
Hasty12345
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You disagree with the removal of resurrection and low godly regen?
that’s what Gemini and myself are debating here, not all the other stuff.
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@SSJGeminiJJ are you saying 8th sense shoukd scale to all gold Saints in the classic during Hades Arc, and it does Not that it grants any form of regen?
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Yes, it seems fair, since Shaka only came back by Shu's blood in the armor and he can't come back anymore, I believe this should be removed, they didn't come back to life after the Hades saga, I think it would be the best of them the immortality type 5th way is dead (limited) even because they cannot manifest themselves if they have their blood in something or with the help of a God, so I very much agree with that, I always thought that the 8th sense would only serve to walk freely in the underworld and not in the world of the living, I agree with removing regeneration and resurrection entirely and making type 5 (but limited) immortality not applicable to combat, as I have demonstrated that it is necessary to have the means to return with your spirit. So yeah, it makes a lot of sense in that.
Hasty12345
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He’s saying it does grant low godly and resurrection, at least that’s what I’m getting from out debate
Hasty12345
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S
So You’re agreeing with me not Gemini my friend
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It would be combat applicable that has been shown
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Yes, remove type 4 immortality and regeneration, as it has no regenerate or resurrection feat, it's more like type 5 immorality and still limited.
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No bro, it wouldn't be, for them to come back as a spirit they need blood on their armor and with the help of Gods, so no, it would be limited (not applicable to combat)
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They can manifest their Spirit anywhere in the world. This was shown most particularly with illias, susphyus, and regs. Aiolios in ND shown it.
It looks more like they need to possibly decatuvate their acausality to help support character though which is what looks like what Shaka did which KS why he said "I'll return to Nirvana."
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I strongly disagree with this, they can only with help from others or with blood on their armor
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Latter, pretty sure all Hades Arc Gold Saints already have it.
Hasty12345
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Yes but they all appeared to help Athena as well, it’s in the volume 10 special chapter that the golds can traverse spacetime at will.
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I saw this, I remember a friend mentioning this.
Hasty12345
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Yeah so the Shaka instance was more of a homing beacon for Shaka to know Shun was in trouble more or less. The golds have shown to be able to freely appear in a combat applicable sense.
but it’s not regen and it’s not resurrection IMO.
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Well, now that you mentioned it seems to make sense, I think it should give type 5 immortality and remove regeneration and type 4 immortality from the character profiles.
Georredannea15
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Where exactly does it say that it transcends the multiverse with R>F, or with what statement did you come to this conclusion? I didn't see that in the OP. I also disagree with Acausality Type 5 and NEP2. I'm also notr on Transduality Type 2, but; I disagree with 5D, Acausality Type 5 and NEP2.
OP is very confused. There is no scanning, it's only done with what is written in the profiles. Interesting.
OP is very confused. There is no scanning, it's only done with what is written in the profiles. Interesting.
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She has been trying for over a year, I believe the photo app must have erased all the scans.
Georredannea15
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Whichever link I click throws me into a user blog and no scans. Also, even if they are statements, 5D, Aca5 and NEP2 are not enough. At best Aca4 to NEP1 and I haven't seen anything that references and R>F transcendence. Apart from that, Transduality is debatable.
Georredannea15
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Unlucky.
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