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(Complete Saint Seiya verse Overhaul Part 1) - Perhaps one of the top 10 most ambitious overhauls to a verse in vswiki history?

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TheUnshakableOne

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These 2 blogs I created need reviewed, and potentially turned into pages for the wiki.



Explanation of the first blog summarized (The Canon Blog)

Everything is canon (Section 1 and 2 of the blog)

Everything is in a shared multiverse

Cross scaling with the 8th and higher senses are valid-able

Cross scaling with Gods is fine because there is literally only 1 god for the totality of everything that exist in the verse

Anime and Manga should be separate canons with separate Cosmologies that scale differently from each other, but the 8th sense, and Buddhist concepts in the original anime are fine to use for the manga due to being the same (But only the original anime)

You can no longer apply G feats to Classic Gold Saints. Episode G Characters should have their own profile with their own scaling.

Sho, RRoP, GA/GR, TO, Classic, and ND take place in the same timeline/universe.

LC, G, DW, Golden age, Gigantomachia are different timelimes in the canon multiverse

The 8th sense explanation blog summarizing it

8th sense users would get the following; Their Soul, and Mind should be Tier 1 scaling of at least 5D because of Reality-Fiction Difference it has with the multiverse. This should also mean immeasurable speed reactions, which upscales to the Gods having full immeasurable speed.
The reason for this is because The Soul and Mind have a change in their dimensionality when the 8th stage of consciousness is awakened.[1] It ascends higher escaping the Higher Dimensional membrane of The Universe[2] by transcending space as well as time which allowed characters to know everything[3]. This allows the users to perceive the Multiverse.[4]

in addition to that Time is a continuum of causality

Therefore, the Acausality should scale to tier 1 as well.

The Reactive evolution and Dimensional Manipulation should also be Tier 1







additionally resistance to 2-A BFR

The reason for Tier 1 RE and DM; Lawless Dymonia has a realm where she can view all universes in the multiverse. They are compared to glittering sparkles, very small lights, and she can look down at and view what is happening in those universes. Despite the multiverse being infinite she can perceive as being finite and see the creation of new Universes. Shaka adapted and took control over her own dimension

Karma may potentially being a Type 1 Concept in the verse with at the very least 2-A Potency and range

Karma is the framework that makes up everything in existence.[36] it is more fundamental than the 7th sense as it resides deeper than the "essence" that makes up Cosmo[55] and deeper than the mind, and soul. It binds down the primordial nothingness that builds reality. It also holds people to their fate, and causality.[59] its completely independent of the multiverse because its a concept that drives the multiverse through a concept of "change." This shows that it is completely independent of those realities, and it can exist without them as those realities can disappear, and be rebirthed. Karma is the reason for the whole cycle of Samsara.

NEP for 9th Sense users and higher Sense Users



Additional information, is in the blogs that further explain things
 
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Given that we’ve been talking about this for over a year at this point with other peeps, obviously I agree
 
What an absolute unit of a CRT. I'm sure I'll have alot to say when I'm done going through everything, but for now let me just say that this is one of biggest CRT's the wiki has seen.
 
It's bigger than I expected.

Explanation of the first blog summarized (The Canon Blog)
I agree with this.
every single gold saint profile will need to be deleted or at the very least re done with classic exclusive scaling, and feats.

just about every G scan will need to be taken off of their profiles at the very least.

there might need to be a separate discussion as to what is and isn't cross scalable, I don't see how cosmo would vary between the different timelines in the same universe, we even see in GA that the sense behave the same everywhere in the multiverse, Shura proves this in every appearance,


The 8th sense explanation blog summarizing it
My IQ too low to understand this so hard skip

Karma may potentially being a Type 1 Concept in the verse
I do think karma should be 2-A in potency for fate hax if not type 1 conceptual manipulation, I'm fine with either.


NEP for 9th Sense users and higher Sense Users
maybe? but this, as well as the 8th sense stuff should only apply to "dead" users of those senses.
 
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I agree mostly with everything but a part of the last point of the 8th sense explanation.

Saint Seiya being rushed was after the Wailing Wall scene as it says the last 10 chapters is where he wanted to speed it up and end it, that was when Shiryu faced the 3 Specters at the Hyperdimension's entrance, so everything else before it like the Wailing Wall scene was not PIS as it is such a vital scene that was being built up the entire time since it was hinted early in the Underworld portions. The Gold Saints coming back via the 8th sense was being built up the entire time because how else would the others free themselves from Hades' Law, especially someone like Aiolos who was dead for many years was able to wholly manifest at that scene, which we know the only way to freely do so after death is via the 8th sense if you're not under Hades' protection. Their undying will(as we know even beyond death one's will and Cosmo lives on in some forms) to help Athena allowed the dead GS to miraculously awaken the 8th sense allowing them to come back so they all can burn their lives and Cosmo out to make the path to the Hyperdimension, it's like how Seiya instinctively awakened the 8th sense when falling into the Underworld, it's all will based due to how Cosmo works.

Edited: Dohko himself says it's something all humans possess but only some are aware of it, because in most people it only emerges at death. The dead GS having mastered the 7th senses would see their senses stopping one by one in their final moments before death and would gain awareness of the 8th sense as Dohko also described. So them awakening it in death via their will fits perfectly with what he said.
 
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My primary concern is Regeneration. It doesn't make sense.
I agree mostly with everything but a part of the last point of the 8th sense explanation.

Saint Seiya being rushed was after the Wailing Wall scene as it says the last 10 chapters is where he wanted to speed it up and end it, that was when Shiryu faced the 3 Specters at the Hyperdimension's entrance, so everything else before it like the Wailing Wall scene was not PIS as it is such a vital scene that was being built up the entire time since it was hinted early in the Underworld portions. The Gold Saints coming back via the 8th sense was being built up the entire time because how else would the others free themselves from Hades' Law, especially someone like Aiolos who was dead for many years was able to wholly manifest at that scene, which we know the only way to freely do so after death is via the 8th sense if you're not under Hades' protection. Their undying will(as we know even beyond death one's will and Cosmo lives on in some forms) to help Athena allowed the dead GS to miraculously awaken the 8th sense allowing them to come back so they all can burn their lives and Cosmo out to make the path to the Hyperdimension, it's like how Seiya instinctively awakened the 8th sense when falling into the Underworld, it's all will based due to how Cosmo works.

Edited: Dohko himself says it's something all humans possess but only some are aware of it, because in most people it only emerges at death. The dead GS having mastered the 7th senses would see their senses stopping one by one in their final moments before death and would gain awareness of the 8th sense as Dohko also described. So them awakening it in death via their will fits perfectly with what he said.
 
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My primary concern is Regeneration. It doesn't make sense.
Oh I don't mind that, the 8th sense not having Regen makes sense since they said they came back as souls at the Wailing Wall and in ND, so I agree no regen fits but it's apparent to me the OG Gold Saints all seemingly have the 8th sense even if it's not to the level of understanding as Shaka's.
 
So.
In regards to the canonicity of the various spin-offs, I agree that Kurumada being credited as the author is pretty damning. But as we've briefly touched on on Discord, this has a few key issues, namely because of the fact that there is supposedly only one version of each god in the multiverse. How would we rectify that with the story of GA, where we are presented with a Seiya who battled Hades in Elysium and is still actively suffering from his curse, with the story of ND, where Seiya had a limited time before succumbing to the curse? And, if these are two seperate timelines, wouldn't that contradict the singular gods hypothesis, seeing as there would have to exist at least 2 versions of Hades' true body for both timelines?


Outside of the canonicity portion of the OP, I would also like to tackle the Acausality proposal. Wouldn't it actually just be type 4 instead of 5, considering this note in the Acausality page "note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise"?


Finally, I agree with Hasty regarding Karma. It's fine either or.
 
So.
In regards to the canonicity of the various spin-offs, I agree that Kurumada being credited as the author is pretty damning. But as we've briefly touched on on Discord, this has a few key issues, namely because of the fact that there is supposedly only one version of each god in the multiverse. How would we rectify that with the story of GA, where we are presented with a Seiya who battled Hades in Elysium and is still actively suffering from his curse, with the story of ND, where Seiya had a limited time before succumbing to the curse? And, if these are two seperate timelines, wouldn't that contradict the singular gods hypothesis, seeing as there would have to exist at least 2 versions of Hades' true body for both timelines?

GA, Sho, RRoP, Classic, and ND are same timeline. The end of GA basically proves it


Outside of the canonicity portion of the OP, I would also like to tackle the Acausality proposal. Wouldn't it actually just be type 4 instead of 5, considering this note in the Acausality page "note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise"?

Time isn't the primary reason for acausality but being free from Karma is.


Finally, I agree with Hasty regarding Karma. It's fine either or.
Probably right
 
The narrative of G makes it clear that there’s only 1 of each god in the multiverse, I genuinely don’t know how it could be any more clear without Okada posting on this forum himself and just saying it.

that being said, GR does focus on a singular universe, with the universe being called multi dimensional and having many timelines etc etc..

and Dohko does say there is a multiverse of universes, so there may be other universes where Classic takes place.

but the “G universe” is its own 2-A structure at the very least.
 
GA, Sho, RRoP, Classic, and ND are same timeline. The end of GA basically proves it
But they can't be if the curse is different? I guess Seiya could still recover or just flat out resist the curse, we have to wait for ND to end for that.



Time isn't the primary reason for acausality but being free from Karma is.
Yeah makes sense. Being free of Karma would make you unbound by the whole "events flow into each other" shtick.



Probably right
Alrighty.
 
But they can't be if the curse is different? I guess Seiya could still recover or just flat out resist the curse, we have to wait for ND to end for that.
What would be different? Yeah ND would have to end. But it looks like its leaning towards ending with Seiya not being healed but he has another mess to fix.
 
tbh, I can see Seiya not getting healed, there are very few chapters left, and more then a few plot points to resolve, it’s possible not all of them will be.
 
Go for it, but unless you’re talking about staff (who I believe have already been asked to comment here) who are you talking about?

mans for such a large crt, there’s 0 reason to speed anything up.
Staff same bro, it's because Saint Seiya's CRT is very time consuming and takes months to finish, lol
 
Explanation of the first blog summarized (The Canon Blog)
Agreed, I also think GA is the same Universe as the classic, considering Hyoga references 13 zodiac signs, and Seiya being in a wheelchair.
The 8th sense explanation blog summarizing it

8th sense users would get the following; Their Soul, and Mind should be Tier 1 scaling of at least 5D because of Reality-Fiction Difference it has with the multiverse. This should also mean immeasurable speed reactions, which upscales to the Gods having full immeasurable speed.
Agreed with the 8th sense being 5d, I don’t really know much about the immeasurable speed, so neutral on that till someone explains it to me.
Karma may potentially being a Type 1 Concept in the verse with at the very least 2-A Potency and range
Idfk Anything about concepts, so Neutral.
NEP for 9th Sense users and higher Sense Users
Agreed, apart from the stuff involving karma.
Sho, RRoP, GA, TO, Classic, and ND take place in the same timeline/universe.

LC, G, DW, Golden age, Gigantomachia are different timelimes in the canon multiverse
big agree, should prob also be mentioned GR seems to be the direct future of GA
 
Is anyone going to contest GR being the future of GA?

like anyone?

I do hope no one tries to argue that…
 
Following, so I can give my input.

Also, topic off-you showed me once this work, right?
Do translation need to be done by vswiki staff only? If I remember right rules around that changed.

I got my translation by asking many different people on subreddut r/Translator to get a nonbiases accurate response
 
Nah, actually I can't say that I agree. I need to get a better look, theres a ton of sus things. But hardly I will comment here again
 
Transduality, NEP, Aca Type 5, and etc. Theres no scans, only a giant ass blog. I will need to take a good ass time to read just to understand part of a hability
 
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