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Classroom of the elite downgrades/upgrade
- Thread starter Vzearr
- Start date
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I would like to say that the first feat, The elevator one
Reggor says in the original translation (Since the one that's being used in the feat is fan translation) it says large dent and not dent
Meaning we can boost the feat
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Isn't the feat calculating the wobble and not the dent?
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I agree with the downgrades. Neutral on the upgrade.
RoggerReggor
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I am not going to comment about Dino's calc as I don't take it as a good representation of a feat (might try to scale it someday), but taking frequency of a literal earthquake isn't the best thing to do.
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 1,758
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Anyways, this should be kept on hold, the verse already has 4 CRTs at the moment, pretty sure we can only have 3 at a moment.
RoggerReggor
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The original translation on that part says "swayed", "wobble" is for a part where it didn't really wobble slightly but heavily.
RoggerReggor
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Well yes, the chair CRT isn't important for me now. I was advised to work on the other stats afterwards and powers and abilities before.
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Well I recently thought of it as not being a feat altogether since it's just a dude blocking an another dude's kick. Like the calc suggests, Housen only slightly outspeeds Ryuuen in this scenario which is like, pretty normal as Housen blocks the kick as the kick is halfway done. I don't see this as a speed feat. I see this as a scene to show Housen's physical superiority over Ryuuen.
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Minimizing the feat as "it's just a dude blocking an another dude's kick" it's just wrong as Housen wasn't looking at Ryueen and when it turns to the kick it already crossed more than half of the movement, already the fact that he could react to it it's impressive.
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It is impressive, but the speed difference Housen and Ryuuen in the calc isn't enough to be a speed feat. I already said that the scene points out a huge difference between Ryuuen and Housen but the calc doesn't reflect that difference correctly.
Like I said, It's better to view this scene as Housen's superiority over Ryuuen in terms of combat sounds much pleasing to me and that's why It would be better to remove the calc from the page altogether and just use the scene as a justification for Housen scaling higher than Ryuuen's "Peak Human" rating.
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There are calcs where characters dodge X speed and end up having a result inferior X, also your point is that the difference in speed isn't huge so the calc is invalid which... uh... is wrote nowhere that the result must be higher by a lot so it's not enough to justify the removal of the calc; not to mention Housen should have a subsonic reaction in that calc but this is for another day.
unless they are portrayed to be equal Housen can be 0,5 m/s above that kick or even 10000000000000 m/s above that kick, both are completely fine.
unless they are portrayed to be equal Housen can be 0,5 m/s above that kick or even 10000000000000 m/s above that kick, both are completely fine.
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 1,758
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It isn't just "some dude taking another dude's kick", in reality, the feat is supposed to be much harder to perform. In the manga, Housen dodged only a single kick and Ryuuen went away afterwards, but in the light novel, Housen was repeatedly dodging Ryuuen's kick and the fight was supposed to be much longer than just a moment of confrontation.
The reason why I say that it isn't a good representation of the feat is due to the fact that they only showed one kick, while in the actual same stuff, Housen man-handled Ryuuen's kicks all while having a limited amount of movement and being put in a corner by Ishizaki as well.
The feat is surely above the human standards, but I am just referring to the fact that they could have made it much better and Housen is surely much faster than he is shown to be.
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That's cuz dodging makes you travel less distance compoared to a punch. The point of dodging isn't the movement, it's the reaction to the punch. If you can react and doge a punch that means your reactions scale to the speed of the punch.
It's just the speed difference. We don't calc every dodging feat to scale characters. We just have it as a justification for a character to scale to or higher than the character they dodged. In this scenario, Housen blocks Ryuuen's kick which was already halfway done so he should scale higher than Ryuuen.
..........Okay?
well the first speed difference isn't logical as the scene suggests a huge speed difference and the second speed difference is also not logical as, It's outliery.
And this again, comes down to what I'm suggesting. Difference between Ryuuen and Housen is shown to be much bigger than the calc suggests. Which makes the calc's result weird.
Well, I agree. The manga doesn't reflect the feat really well and that was the reason why I suggested what I suggested in the first place.
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no, to be equal (at least for how we scale reaction on this site) you have to react to the punch when it crosses exactly one meter, if you react after it moves like 0,5 s we can say you reaction is way higher than the speed of the punch (which is what happens with Housen)
we don't calc every dodging feat because usually the characters are presented as equal and can fight equally for minutes, here it doesn't happen.
it shows there is a decent difference in speed and it's a subsonic feat which should satisfy you "the speed gap is too low" argument
of course I exaggerate them on purpose, also most of your points come from your interpretation of the feat, just because you expected something higher doesn't mean the calc isn't valid lol
if anything it suggest a lowball which is perfectly fine to use since we can say "he moves at least at this speed and the result should be higher"
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again though, the calc doesn't reflect that kind of speed gap between them. The speed gap is merely 1.15x here.
Characters not being represented equally doesn't really mean that you can't calc a dodging feat. It would still be technically correct if the speed gap is something like 1.1x or something. It would be pretty useless though. I agree that it doesn't happen here but the calc suggests that the gap between Housen and Ryuuen is 1.15x, which is why I'm aganist it.
It's calculated to be Superhuman though? The difference between them is 1.15x so idk what you are talking about.
It's not "my interpretion", It's the scene. The scene suggests that the difference between Housen and Ryuuen is so high that Housen can block Ryuuen's kick even though he was caught off guard and holding someone else but the calc shows the speed difference to be so little.
That would've been true if this was a blitzing feat but it's not. You simply can't lowball a feat like that lol.
RoggerReggor
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This is just wrong thinking. Calculations can show a 100x difference in characters who are shown to be equal, and calculations can show only about 10x difference between characters who are meant to have a million times difference between them. I wouldn't be shocked if Housen was like 10x faster than Ryuuen. For one, Housen is displayed to be so fast and strong that he equalizes with Albert in physical strength, outclasses a ton of characters in AP and can blitz characters. He scales laughably above Ryuuen if we see how he toyed with even Sudou, who is superior to Ryuuen.
The only reason Housen lost in Y2V3-4 was plot. Ryuuen was carried by endurance and the COTE "Battle IQ" logics (yes, they show other characters overcoming an enormous speed difference by just planning and battle strategy, examples would be Ryuuen vs Housen, and Shiba and Tsukishiro vs Ayanokouji), he was thrown for like a dozen of times and still rose and Housen wasn't even being serious. Housen was no-diffing Sudou all while being visibly casual.
In my opinion, if Vzear's points make sense to you, then you can make the corrections he suggested, it wouldn't matter even if they have a 10x difference, it's narratively acceptable.
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That's a mtl mistranslation, it was valid then but not now thats why the Shiba feat got deleted. The official translation few months ago he never made it ring
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The official translation got released in 2023 the one you showed where it "rang" is old lol. The official translation is:
"For the umpteenth time, I took evasive action to get away from Tsukishiro. The sound of Shiba's fist, swung slightly later, reaches my ears dryly."
Its just a reaction time / instinct feat cuz tsukishiro literally says this right after:
"I was going to finish you off now, but your reaction time is not that of a normal person."
RoggerReggor
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Well, while I agree with you, I just wanted to do a slight nitpick. The translation Zetsu sent is actually the official translation (the one done by the Canadian company Seven Seas Entertainment). I think I will send the kindle scans.
RoggerReggor
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SCANS of the feat
The page of rights where they announce their team and stuff (just as a proof of the official translations)
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It's not you who decides what is accepted and what isn't, So your opinion is kinda irrelevant
Agnaa saw the fan translation not the original
RoggerReggor
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I am kind of unsure regarding what the canonicity of the original translations is. For one, I have seen some Nasuverse scales which effectively use the official translations and verses like Shinzha Banshou were deleted from the wiki due to them not having enough official English translations or people who can effectively translate such a big work. But yes, what you sent is the official translation, I wouldn't deny that.
RoggerReggor
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I would agree with Vzearr, while the official translations basically fuels up the FTS notion (as the sound of just the air pressure through fists cannot simply make ears ring). Refrain from posting anything which is unaccepted.
I don't know the entire debate with Agnaa (as before I used to be active on this account, my friend used to be, though the sharing isn't done anymore and he has called quits to scaling), but I know that the RoyalMTLs' translation was heavily argued upon, and rejected in the end. Original translation was never argued in the first place at least on wiki afaik, so refrain from posting anything which isn't accepted or in this case, not even argued in the first place.
I don't know the entire debate with Agnaa (as before I used to be active on this account, my friend used to be, though the sharing isn't done anymore and he has called quits to scaling), but I know that the RoyalMTLs' translation was heavily argued upon, and rejected in the end. Original translation was never argued in the first place at least on wiki afaik, so refrain from posting anything which isn't accepted or in this case, not even argued in the first place.
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Yeah, that scan is actually hard to interpret but we can use it probably idek, its hard
