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BxB Issei adjustment

Stronger, but did it enough for him to junp tier in that same form, everyone know he getting stronger. Beside your tiering is your own headcanon, there are no proof of Serious Ajuka and True Form Sirzech is Heavenly Dragon level. And Ballberith is said that can goes toe-to-toes with the Dragon God, but we don't they refer to current Ophis or Prime Ophis level. Cao Cao is not even Ultimate Class Devil in tern of raw power, he strong because he smart and weilding True Longinus. Bedeze, Roygun is high-class level devil now, they are ultimate class because of the King Pieces, but it already being take out
 
@GDS

Cool, I'm okay with that.

What's the value in teratons? I tried to convert it with my limited knowledge, but it's not working.

@Vietthai

Chill. No one said he's gonna jump a tier.
 
There are no proof?

Sirzechs with his true form could easily defeat Hades another from top-10 strongest + he amazed Ddraig by his amount of aura alone. Shiva also stated in Volume 19 that the only who could opose him is Sirzechs, Ajuka and current Ophis.

Cao Cao with his True Longinus could fight on par with Sairaog Beast form damage him with each one of his hits. And thats all without using his Sphere with destruction power. He also fight with Ladon on his own.

For Bedeze and Roygun, I took them on their peak.

Ise BxB fought on par with Ouryuu who cost 5 pawn pieces. The same as Biko who could fight with casual Maou-class Dragon Tannin.
 
Sirzech said he can easily destroy Hades, but again Hades contradict Sirzech claim. Shiva claim that, huh, anyone in top 10 can oppose him, it just that Ajuka and Sirzech have potential, while Ophis is pretty obvious. Well Shiva can future predict to an extent, same as Indra.

Cao Cao stat is shit compare to Sairaorg, it is just that Cao Cao is smarter than Sairaorg who is a power idiot like Ise, Cao cao using his True Longinus to absorb most dmg come from Sairaorg punchs, that doesn't mean Cao cao durability is on par with Sairaorg.

Well this is oke.

And i don't tell about Ise, his plot armor to get stronger is pretty overwhelming.

I really want to give you an advise: stop scaling thing through statements.

But wait this is not the purpose of this thread -_-
 
This was Azazel statement.... No Sirzechs. Sirzechs also fought agains 1/7 Trihexa on the same level as DxD G Issei.

I am never said Cao Cao has the same durability. But he has power to damage Sairaog beast form and enough speed to dodge his attacks.

Plot Armor? His Dragon Deification made all his forms stronger. Thats all.

No I just help with advise since we desiding what new stats character resieve.

I am scalling from statements ONLY if they related with feats. Like in situation I mention.

Also Ddraig could casually defeat Typhon without using his ultimate flame with just few minutes. That mean there is a gap in power even within Top-10. And current Shiva is far above those who in HD-class. He even above finite Ophis.
 
Oh, yeah. What about Gasper? I remember that his darkness beasts cracked one of Ladon's barriers, which Triaina Issei couldn't put a dent in.
 
Well i forgot about that, but Azazel statement have no value, proof 1/7 Trihexa is on the same level as DxD G Issei.

And it power come from his weapon, not his inner power, you need to remember that his weapon can potentially kill even Shiva, does that make him equal to Shiva or any Gods in tier?

Ise have many Plot Amor until now. Even Indra was once said to Cao Cao that Ise is a B-tier fighter but making SSS-tier miracle. According to spoiler, he drink a magic drug make by Indra, unconscious, meeting Chichigami, awake and his Psuedo DxD G have time limit from 8 minute to 88 minute and roughly equal to his DxD G before -_-, Vali sure will scream his pant =)). He don't have any talent, but his strength continue rising at abnormal rate, but this is not the discussing purpose of this thread.

nah, most of you most of you statement scaling is without any feats

Shiva already said that he don't care about Current Ophis, Shiva said he is interesting in Sirzech and Ajuka because they are very young Super Devil, all of the being in top 10 and many Gods, Dragons live for millenia already, Sirzech and Ajuka can be considered as a rare talent. Also Ddraig defeat Typhon, but we don't know the detail of the battle, until vol 25 fully translated, no scaling through spoilers
 
I don't believe there's much point in the current discussion as a whole, so it's best to drop this until the last two volumes are translated.

I don't want us to reach 200 replies talking about things that might never reach a satisfying conclusion as of now.
 
I read myself Volume 25 (I could easily posted scans from it now) and I know what I am talking about lol. Ddraig tanked Typhon ( µÑÁÕñºÒü«þ¿▓Õª╗ ) strongest lightning almost without any damage and with his Fire Breath heavy injure him. And after few minutes Typhon retire.

I just wanted to help decide what stats each character gets.

Since we have Volume 5 Ise Balance Breaker (equal to strongest High-class Devils) Island level, then

Ultimate-class could be at least Island level (Dulio team angels, Rias, Akeno and most of Rias team)

Maou-class: at least Island level, likely Large Island level (Xenovia with Crimson Destruction Dragnar and full power of above holy swords and others I mention higher)

Above Maou-class Large Island level (Rias Balor form, Tobio BxB, Dulio BxB, Cao Cao, Sairaog beast form, Thanatos, Vali in weakned EJOD)

God-class and Chief God-class: at least Large Island level (Apollo, base Vidar, Rizevim, Loki, Vali EJOD)

Low tier of top-10: at least Large Island level, likely Small Country level (Fenrir, Typhon, )

Heavenly Dragon-class and Super Devils: Small Country level (True form Sirzechs, Ajuka, Ddraig, Albion, Ise Pseudo DxD G, Vali DxD L, Apophis, Azi-Dahaka, Vidar with boots and armor)

Crom Cruach: Small Country level, likely higher

Others: Higher than that.
 
Nope, we can't do tier jumps or they're gonna be downgraded. It's not allowed anymore. It's going to be like this:

High-class and Ultimate-class characters = At least Island level.

Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely higher.

Low level God-class and above Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely far higher.

DxD L Vali and others that scale to him and above him will be "At least Small Country level+" from the calculation.

Finite Ophis will be Country level for being twice as strong as Ddraig and Albion at their peak combined.
 
Vietthai96 said:
like i said, both Ise and Kiba mention it, but feats and calc debunk it. You need to remember that almost all of FTL to MFTL speed of many characters is through feats, scaling and calc. Feats/Scaling/Calc > Word of Author > In-Universe Statement
One more thing is context, sometime writer like to use flowery word to increase the intense of battle or thing. And this is fiction story with magic, they have light doesn't mean they move at speed of light or even Harry Potter verse will have FTL to MFTL We need feats and calc for speed, not statement.
Click to expand...
What feats debunk the statement that Vali is FTL? If someone with a lot of knowledge on combat speed like a Knight states that someone is as fast as light at a given time, I'm inclined to agree with it on principle. Word of author = Word of Issei and Kiba at this point, given how much exposition we rely on them for.

Of course writers can exaggerate it but Vali was stated to be Lightspeed+ since Volume 3, and nearly everytime he's around he's restated to be light speed.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
Nope, we can't do tier jumps or they're gonna be downgraded. It's not allowed anymore. It's going to be like this:
High-class and Ultimate-class characters = At least Island level.

Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely higher.

Low level God-class and above Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely far higher.

DxD L Vali and others that scale to him and above him will be "At least Small Country level+" from the calculation.

Finite Ophis will be Country level for being twice as strong as Ddraig and Albion at their peak combined.
Click to expand...
Didn't Ddraig and Albion take on the entire host of heaven, hell, and the fallen angels, and yet were still barely sealed by God?
 
Superalexiy said:
Vietthai96 said:
like i said, both Ise and Kiba mention it, but feats and calc debunk it. You need to remember that almost all of FTL to MFTL speed of many characters is through feats, scaling and calc. Feats/Scaling/Calc > Word of Author > In-Universe Statement
One more thing is context, sometime writer like to use flowery word to increase the intense of battle or thing. And this is fiction story with magic, they have light doesn't mean they move at speed of light or even Harry Potter verse will have FTL to MFTL We need feats and calc for speed, not statement.
Click to expand...
What feats debunk the statement that Vali is FTL? If someone with a lot of knowledge on combat speed like a Knight states that someone is as fast as light at a given time, I'm inclined to agree with it on principle. Word of author = Word of Issei and Kiba at this point, given how much exposition we rely on them for.
Of course writers can exaggerate it but Vali was stated to be Lightspeed+ since Volume 3, and nearly everytime he's around he's restated to be light speed.
Click to expand...
First, Highschool DxD is narrated by 1st person view with different characters, not 3rd narrator. Most of the time Ise narrating the series, and he is the stupidest character of the series, even most serious character like Sona can exaggerate thing, Azazel we don't talk about because of his joking character, but even him or insane strong and knowledgeable character at that time of the novel like Sirzech, Grayfia and Serafall don't talk a thing, so if you think Word of Character is Word of Author so you pretty dumb, word of character is they descride thing in their perspective, and different character have different perspective. It could be Vali actually move at speed of light or it just that his move look so flashy that make Ise and Kiba use the word speed of light, or he so fast to their eyes that they start claiming wow he move at light speed. Seriously you tell me that Kiba have a lot of knowledge on combat speed, yeah assuming it right, but the matter is if he can't perceive Vali movement, he can't indicate him moving at speed of light. For example, when an object moving at a speed that making a blur in your eyes, can you calc this object speed?. In order to calc Vali at speed of light, Ise and Kiba must be atleast Sub-Relativistic+ to Relativistic in speed so even if they can't perceive Vali movement, scaling and calc can make Vali speed is SoL, but there are no feats or even statement that Ise and Kiba move and react that fast.

Second, time to debunk:

- Lightning being considered relevant valid threat (Abaddon intercepting Akeno's lightning mini storm surprised her) and Star Knight Boost form blitzing Abaddon before she could react was considered impressive in vol 10, which make no sense if they could already perceive FTL movement back in vol 4-5.
Similarly Kiba who could catch up with Issei used a lightning bolt to attack a peer enemyin vol 10. Said enemy can intercept said bolt, but if Kiba was FTL, his enemy who could somewhat match him would not need to intercept the bolt and just leisurely walk away from it.

Well much like how wuxia like to describe an attack as weighing thousands of pound and as fast as lightning, but then the same character fail to destroy lowly iron bars when trapped in a cage.
 
@Vergil Lucifer If you think that statements should be taken and they're reliable, why not make a blog for that and show why they are indeed reliable and we should take their word so they can get it analyzed?

@Superalexiy Author is not the same as narrator


And for anyone that thinks Vali is speed of light through how characters describe him as creating course of light, creating course of light can be a result of him just traveling at high speeds while he was glowing. Even in Volume 3, on his arrival, he was glowing after landing from the sky

Volume 3 New Knight & New Rival

FLASH!

It descended while cutting the abyss sky by sending out a white light. If it came down at that velocity, it would shake the ground and make a crater. It would spread dust for sure.

But that didn't happen. There was a white thing in our sights. A white thing was glowing, which didn't even have a slight shadow in this dark night. It was floating off the ground by an inch. A white plated armour. There were jewels across various locations on the armour. It also had armour on the face so we couldn't see the expression of this person. The eight wings of light growing from the back were giving out a divine glow in the dark night. But I was familiar with the person covered in white armour. It had a different shape and colour, but it was similar…… It was identical to the "Boosted Gear Scale-mail". Possibly everyone aside from me who was at that place at that time must have thought the same thing. So all of us understood at the same time. We understood what the thing in front of us was.

"………Vanishing Dragon."


@vietthai96 Just to add things, in terms of sharing important information like about Sacred Gear, Current state of things, etc. Azazel could be serious. But even if he may be serious about it, the statement is still need to be backed up.
 
@Super

No offense and I don't want to sound rude, but light speed Vali is nonsensical. It's another thing if there was a calc for it, but what we have here is nothing but hyperbolic statements. Leaving tracks of light with your movements is not quantifiable, I think. It can be done by MHS characters.

@Muffins

Nobody's interested in the statements anymore. Now that I think of it, using a statement from a volume as early as Volume 4 like Serafall's statement without another feat coming close to it could be strange, because Ishibumi always forgets and changes stuff. Remember when Triaina was said to bring out Ddraig's original power?

Vietthai96 said:
Second, time to debunk:

- Lightning being considered relevant valid threat (Abaddon intercepting Akeno's lightning mini storm surprised her) and Star Knight Boost form blitzing Abaddon before she could react was considered impressive in vol 10, which make no sense if they could already perceive FTL movement back in vol 4-5. Similarly Kiba who could catch up with Issei used a lightning bolt to attack a peer enemyin vol 10. Said enemy can intercept said bolt, but if Kiba was FTL, his enemy who could somewhat match him would not need to intercept the bolt and just leisurely walk away from it.
Click to expand...
You have to realize that authors mostly don't know how powerful their characters are, especially when it comes to calculations. Why are you even using the "X is considered relevant" argument when their other feats already show they can handle that certain thing easily? It's like the "One Piece characters can't be this fast because guns are still considered a valid threat, and it's used against Admiral and Commander level opponents" despite the fact that they can and have reacted to it easily. Even BoS characters can react to bullets and cannonballs, and characters from early on (Skypiea) are Hypersonic (and soon to be Massively Hypersonic+).

It's also like saying "most Bleach characters can't be MHS+ or higher because Candice's main form of offense is natural lightning. If they could easily react to it and dodge it, Candice's main form of attack would be useless". But even Soul Society Ichigo reacted to lightning.

Fodder like Asia, Elmenhilde (without blood), and one person from Sona's peerage have been shown to react to natural lightning and dodge it. And the former two were even slowed down by Dulio's rain. If it turns out Akeno indeed used lightning instead of thunder in Volume 2, we would have characters that can react to lightning from that early on. If anything, it just shows Ishibumi's inconsistency at times.

Note that I'm not arguing for FTL Kiba. I'm just saying the argument that DxD characters couldn't be faster than lightning speed is something I don't agree with. At least that's the impression I got from your post. If that isn't what you meant to say, sorry.

Also, don't call anyone dumb, especially when there's no sufficient provocation. Lol.
 
I'm not telling that i don't want DxD have light speed, but i want consistent proof, not hype thing up with vague character statement and contradict it latter, and that problem is the fan not the author. And well about debunk feats, i don't think lighting is valid light speed threat, but most fan considering it valid though.
 
@Burning

Sorry, for a late response.

Anyway, Vali's feat result in teraton is 5.99 teratons

Also, any progress with speed yet?.
 
@Shrek

I will say that we should use the pulveriztion value for BB Issei, which is Island Level and then use Vali's Small Country Level result (there is an argument that support vaporization result, look at the note at Final Tally part).

From then, we can just put Maou class being, Heavenly Dragon, Super Devil, and other between them. If others agree of course.
 
Didn't Ddraig and Albion take on the entire host of heaven, hell, and the fallen angels, and yet were still barely sealed by God?

1. Their were in middle of fight with each other and obliviosly not on their peak endurance and power

2. Their sealed their strongest abilities (Venom, and Inferno Flame)

And God have now battle feats. If he was strong enought to alone defeat Ddraig and Albion then whole war is meanless since he could oneshot whole Devil and Fallen Angels Army. So they were defeated by combine force of all 3 factions including God in his prime and after that when their body's were been destroyed, their weakned souls were been sealed inside Sacred Gears.

In terms of battle power God of the Bible alone are no match for them.
 
@GDS

Cool, thanks.

About that, since I don't know how people archive and back things up for now, can you copy-paste the ones in my original post and put them into a blog? Just name the blog "DxD Speed Calcs (Naruto Forums)", and at the beginning of the blog, write "Credit to MAPSK from Narutoforums". That should be okay for a start.
 
God weakening himself when he seal 666, that is the cause of his dead and he not in his prime in the war but yeah if Bible God is at the level that can take one Ddraig and Albion alone then he can massacre both Devil and Fallen Angel side even if he in weakened state.
 
@Burning Full Fingers

As for Triana bringing out Ddraig's original powers, to not jump to conclusions but there's a chance that it'll be possible when he master it. Guess we'll just have to see when Issei masters it.

For Serafall's statement, which statement you may be referring to? Just wanted to make sure that you may not be mixing it up with Sona's.

And while I'm still at this, I may as well post how Sona's statement was said and what's the scene when the country level statement was said

Volume 4 Life 2

Looking at it, Kaichou's face was also completely red! It was like looking at her elder sister, her speech and conduct, she was feeling completely embarrassed! Noticing that, Leviathan-sama looked into Kaichou's face with worry.

"Sona-chan, what's wrong? Your face is completely red, you know? Since it's the long awaited reunion with your onee-sama, me, I think it would be better if you were a bit more happy? 'Onee-sama!' 'So-tan!', calling like that and embracing each other in a yuri way, that sort of development is fine with me as well, Onee-chan!"

……That was extremely difficult. Was this Leviathan-sama!?

Kaichou said with an unsatisfied expression. While twitching near her eyes.

"……O-Onee-sama. This is my school and I am entrusted with the job of the student council president here…… No matter how close relatives we are, Onee-sama's behaviour is, too much…… I can't approve of that sort of outfit."

"No way, Sona-chan! If I am told that by Sona-chan, your Onee-chan will be sad! Sona-chan doesn't know that her onee-chan is admired as the Magical girl! Since with the glittering stick, I erase angels and fallen angels ☆."

"Onee-sama, Please be prudent. If my onee-sama, the Maou glitters, then this small country would be destroyed many times over."

She isn't a Mahou shoujo, but more like a Maou shoujo! Maou shoujo, Serafall Leviathan-sama is scary!


There may be part that Ishibumi might have forgot but the Triana part might not be one of them.
 
If Triaina equals Ddraig, then CxC would be >>>>>>> Ddraig. Lol.

I feel like ExE could be a complete dragonification.
 
Ddraig expressed his opinion. Triaina? What does that mean?

[ Triaina is the three-pronged spear of the ocean god Poseidon in Greek mythology. Better known as the Trident, I felt that the series of attacks from the three Evil Pieces was as intense as the Triaina itself. ]

Illegal Move ... Triaina...

Not bad, this name, I will be using it.

"Illegal Move plus Triaina. Not bad at all. Then I will call this series of attacks Illegal Move Triaina."

Let's try this name for now. Once I master the power of the Queen, let's think of a new one.


CxC is Triaina too. Issei did not do it in volume 9 because he was not able to master it.
 
I already summarized it at least twice though?

Burning Full Fingers said:
High-class and Ultimate-class characters = At least Island level.

Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely higher.

Low level God-class and above Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely far higher.

DxD L Vali and others that scale to him and above him will be "At least Small Country level+" from the calculation.

Finite Ophis will be Country level for being twice as strong as Ddraig and Albion at their peak combined.
Click to expand...
 
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