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Also, we gotta talk about speed when this is done.
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BxB Issei adjustment
- Thread starter Burning_Full_Fingers
- Start date
- 50
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We should make a thread for the statements.
There is a quote where Serafall destroys an island with one shot and another destroying Japan. Four quotes talking about the speed of light.
There is a quote where Serafall destroys an island with one shot and another destroying Japan. Four quotes talking about the speed of light.
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- Thread starter
- #123
Anyone interested in making a thread for the statements can do so. You should also mention Lavinia being capable of encasing a small country in ice, and Dulio manipulating the weather of a country.
If BxB Issei becomes High 6-C, there should be no problem with Serafall's statement though.
Light speed statements don't make much sense and they're all hyperbolic. I'm talking about the Relativistic calc.
If BxB Issei becomes High 6-C, there should be no problem with Serafall's statement though.
Light speed statements don't make much sense and they're all hyperbolic. I'm talking about the Relativistic calc.
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Well, maybe the fight between Issei vs Thanatos clarifies the issue of speed. Apparently, Thanatos is faster than god's speed, even faster than DxD G.
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- #125
God speed doesn't really mean anything. There's no particular speed value it can be attached to.
But let's finish the AP revisions first.
But let's finish the AP revisions first.
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- Thread starter
- #128
If it's the latter, then probably Low 6-B since there would be little reason not to accept the statement if someone who's essentially fodder in comparison to them is High 6-C.
@GDS
If you convert the vaporization value of Vali's feat to teratons, what would it be? Also, for Issei's possible High 6-C feat.
@GDS
If you convert the vaporization value of Vali's feat to teratons, what would it be? Also, for Issei's possible High 6-C feat.
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Issei's feat 0,760 teraton or 760 gigaton(Large Island Level)
Vali's feat 10 teraton (Country Level)
My bad, looks like I accidently saw the chart wrong. Anyway there you have it.
Vali's feat 10 teraton (Country Level)
My bad, looks like I accidently saw the chart wrong. Anyway there you have it.
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- Thread starter
- #130
Nice, nice. Especially Vali's. 
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- Thread starter
- #133
He said he just saw the chart wrong. When it's in a blog, it's going to be requested for evaluation.
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@Blacke
Don't worry, I will recalculate the feat, just to make sure the rsult isn't wrong, along with making the blog for it, but I will do it later.
Don't worry, I will recalculate the feat, just to make sure the rsult isn't wrong, along with making the blog for it, but I will do it later.
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- Thread starter
- #135
Cool.
So, should we talk about speed?
So, should we talk about speed?
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The best way to look at speed is to first look at Vali's speed feat in crossing an entire mountain rangr in a few seconds. First we need to know how far it was then we determine the speed and use a few seconds as 3 to 5 seconds. Then we go off that and look at High Speed and God Speed Issei mentions.
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For speeds, regarding Vali's speed when traveling the mountain, that'll be nice to figure out in terms of his travel speed but note that this is his travel speed and this may not even be his top speed or his combat speed to begin with. If we think about it, he'll spend most of his energy on fighting Azi Dahaka instead so it's possible that the traveling speed may not be his best speed.
If anything, I would suggest going for lightning dodging feats since that's been more consistent and then probably powerscale throught that (If we're talking about Vali)
For relativistic speed feat, it's better to maybe hold into it for a bit but still good to take into account
About the "It disappeared in the blink of an eye!" description about the mountain busting feat, the "in the blink of the eye" might be used as an idiom here meaning that it could also be said as "It disappeared very quick."
Would anyone like to confirm if they meant it by literal meaning or it's used as an idiom? For the original japanese text, I'm not sure if there's an indicator if it's meant literally or as an idiom.
Anyway, just in case it may mean as an idiom, I would still suggest the three types of destruction (violent fragmentation, pulverization, and vaporization) used for the calcs to be included just to be safe.
If anything, I would suggest going for lightning dodging feats since that's been more consistent and then probably powerscale throught that (If we're talking about Vali)
For relativistic speed feat, it's better to maybe hold into it for a bit but still good to take into account
About the "It disappeared in the blink of an eye!" description about the mountain busting feat, the "in the blink of the eye" might be used as an idiom here meaning that it could also be said as "It disappeared very quick."
Would anyone like to confirm if they meant it by literal meaning or it's used as an idiom? For the original japanese text, I'm not sure if there's an indicator if it's meant literally or as an idiom.
Anyway, just in case it may mean as an idiom, I would still suggest the three types of destruction (violent fragmentation, pulverization, and vaporization) used for the calcs to be included just to be safe.
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Copypaste of an animevice user:
"This quote right here supports the idea that Godspeed is a reference to FTL or at the very least relativistic speeds. Because note he says Sonic speed, high speed, and then god speed. The term sonic speed could encompass supersonic through MHS+ speeds, high speed in turn could then reference relativistic speeds, and then godspeed would be lightspeed and above. Also note the fact in the first speed feat he says lightspeed. Of course from a lowballing stand point it could also be sonic encompasses supersonic through hypersonic, high speed encompasses MHS through MHS+, with godspeed being relativistic speeds. In addition there were actually 4 light speed references throughout DXD all in the earlier half which is another reason I say the calcer did my job better than I did because I should have remembered that. But also the calcer has several calcs that support relativistic speeds which is why OBD has the verse at Relativistic( MASPK volume 10 part 4). According to one calc even shit tier characters are at least HS+ - MHS.
Volume 9 first user of Trianna Knight
I adjusted the Evil Piece system within my body! Yes, I need speed this time! Unsurpassed speed! Let me imagine myself as Kiba! Visualize the Knight!
"Mode Change! Welsh Sonic Boost Knight!"
Smack!
I spread the dragon wings and flew towards Cao Cao! The boosters on my back were doubled, and spewed out great flames of magical power! I streaked across the sky as if causing the air to shake!
Not fast enough! I needed speed faster than he can follow! Sonic speed, high speed, god speed!
"--Armour release!"
As I yelled, various parts of Boosted Gear Scale Mail were shed off! Heavy armour was cast off from the body, arms, legs, and helmet!
Abandoning all excess baggage, keeping the minimum armour to fly! Boosted Gear Scale Mail shaped itself into a set of delicate full body armour. Giving up on defence! Further shaping the armour into a slender form for high speed.
My wish is god speed! Speed no one can follow!
I also have a feat of Vali Volume 21 crossing an unspecified mountain range in an unspecified part of Europe in a few seconds trying to deduce where it is. But it's most likely an MHS feat because I have already inputed the numbers for some of the more well known mountain ranges. Note this was done at High Speed not Godspeed.
Volume 21:
After flying at high speed over the mountain range for a few seconds, Vali found the source of the powerful aura. The other party had also noticed him. However, they didn't launch any attacks in his direction. Vali stopped and landed near him. Standing before him was a colossal black dragon with three heads. Aŝi Dahāka looked towards Vali with a welcoming expression.
Volume 21
But just in the nick of time, A┼¥i Dah─üka avoided a direct hit by using teleportation magic to escape. Vali's blast of demonic energy lost its target, and collided with the tall mountain in the distance. With a loud boom, the five thousand metre tall mountain was instantly decimated—.
Vali turned his gaze towards A┼¥i Dah─üka, who had managed to increase the distance between them. —One of A┼¥i Dah─üka's heads, his left head had been blown away, and he had also lost his left wing. It seemed like he hadn't safely evaded that last attack
They are actually in the Caucus mountains that's the only mountain range in europe with 5000 meter tall mountains and Vali destroyed five thousand meter tall mountains. Which means this was the mountain range Vali crossed to fight Azi Dahaka. Using some lovely online time/distance calculator using 5 seconds as the time frame as he crossed them in a few seconds and the mountain range is 1100 kilometers long. Though honestly no way to tell from where to where he went so this should be taken with a grain of salt.
If he crossed the whole length of Caucas Mountains
Mach 647.1 MHS
If he crossed the Width of the mountains
Mach 94.12 HS+
Again this makes Highspeed HS+ to MHS."
"This quote right here supports the idea that Godspeed is a reference to FTL or at the very least relativistic speeds. Because note he says Sonic speed, high speed, and then god speed. The term sonic speed could encompass supersonic through MHS+ speeds, high speed in turn could then reference relativistic speeds, and then godspeed would be lightspeed and above. Also note the fact in the first speed feat he says lightspeed. Of course from a lowballing stand point it could also be sonic encompasses supersonic through hypersonic, high speed encompasses MHS through MHS+, with godspeed being relativistic speeds. In addition there were actually 4 light speed references throughout DXD all in the earlier half which is another reason I say the calcer did my job better than I did because I should have remembered that. But also the calcer has several calcs that support relativistic speeds which is why OBD has the verse at Relativistic( MASPK volume 10 part 4). According to one calc even shit tier characters are at least HS+ - MHS.
Volume 9 first user of Trianna Knight
I adjusted the Evil Piece system within my body! Yes, I need speed this time! Unsurpassed speed! Let me imagine myself as Kiba! Visualize the Knight!
"Mode Change! Welsh Sonic Boost Knight!"
Smack!
I spread the dragon wings and flew towards Cao Cao! The boosters on my back were doubled, and spewed out great flames of magical power! I streaked across the sky as if causing the air to shake!
Not fast enough! I needed speed faster than he can follow! Sonic speed, high speed, god speed!
"--Armour release!"
As I yelled, various parts of Boosted Gear Scale Mail were shed off! Heavy armour was cast off from the body, arms, legs, and helmet!
Abandoning all excess baggage, keeping the minimum armour to fly! Boosted Gear Scale Mail shaped itself into a set of delicate full body armour. Giving up on defence! Further shaping the armour into a slender form for high speed.
My wish is god speed! Speed no one can follow!
I also have a feat of Vali Volume 21 crossing an unspecified mountain range in an unspecified part of Europe in a few seconds trying to deduce where it is. But it's most likely an MHS feat because I have already inputed the numbers for some of the more well known mountain ranges. Note this was done at High Speed not Godspeed.
Volume 21:
After flying at high speed over the mountain range for a few seconds, Vali found the source of the powerful aura. The other party had also noticed him. However, they didn't launch any attacks in his direction. Vali stopped and landed near him. Standing before him was a colossal black dragon with three heads. Aŝi Dahāka looked towards Vali with a welcoming expression.
Volume 21
But just in the nick of time, A┼¥i Dah─üka avoided a direct hit by using teleportation magic to escape. Vali's blast of demonic energy lost its target, and collided with the tall mountain in the distance. With a loud boom, the five thousand metre tall mountain was instantly decimated—.
Vali turned his gaze towards A┼¥i Dah─üka, who had managed to increase the distance between them. —One of A┼¥i Dah─üka's heads, his left head had been blown away, and he had also lost his left wing. It seemed like he hadn't safely evaded that last attack
They are actually in the Caucus mountains that's the only mountain range in europe with 5000 meter tall mountains and Vali destroyed five thousand meter tall mountains. Which means this was the mountain range Vali crossed to fight Azi Dahaka. Using some lovely online time/distance calculator using 5 seconds as the time frame as he crossed them in a few seconds and the mountain range is 1100 kilometers long. Though honestly no way to tell from where to where he went so this should be taken with a grain of salt.
If he crossed the whole length of Caucas Mountains
Mach 647.1 MHS
If he crossed the Width of the mountains
Mach 94.12 HS+
Again this makes Highspeed HS+ to MHS."
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,243
- 14,611
nah, it is about centext, so if you just use context to decide thing the it is a mess, high speed mean the speed is high, so sonic speed and god speed can be called high speed as well. Just because Ise said sonic speed first, high speed is second and god speed is last meaning god speed > high speed > sonic speed. It is similar to upgrade Ikki speed to FTL because Stella statement about Ikki outspeed his shadow. Until we have feats or atleast Word of Author, in DxD there are many character have high AP but low speed, or some character have very high speed but low AP.
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- #143
Thanks.
Yeah, that's the question.
I don't believe in this "high speed, god speed" stuff. But yeah, I remember that there is a fodder in Sona's peerage that has a High Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic feat.
I believe there was another Relativistic calc or something for Great Red + Issei vs Jabberwocky. But the proof of the latter's light being genuine seems to be only that they're continuous beams of light. I don't think that's enough though.
Yeah, that's the question.
I don't believe in this "high speed, god speed" stuff. But yeah, I remember that there is a fodder in Sona's peerage that has a High Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic feat.
I believe there was another Relativistic calc or something for Great Red + Issei vs Jabberwocky. But the proof of the latter's light being genuine seems to be only that they're continuous beams of light. I don't think that's enough though.
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Well, we have this feat
"Weather manipulation! He used his Sacred Gear to make these rain clouds! He planned to control the weather to hinder us! As expected, the rain clouds turned into thunderclouds, causing heavy rain to fall down onto the field accompanied by lightning strikes! The ice-cold drops of water rained down heavily on our bodies, instantly increasing the effort we had to make, and if 'rain' continued to fall on us, our stamina would quickly be exhausted! Even dodging the lightning strikes would drain us of energy! However, we would also take damage if we were hit by it! My comrades dodged the bolts of lightning while moving underneath the falling rai, doing their best to rush towards the ball — but appearing in that place were Angels encased in bubbles! —Damn it! It's Dulio's ability!"
The comrades are referring to his team in Azazel cup which are Asia, Ravel, Rossweise, Bova, Nakiri, Xenovia, Irina, and Elmenhilde. So basically, even Asia has lighting dodging feat and I can guarantee that Base Issei>Asia by quite a huge margin.
"Weather manipulation! He used his Sacred Gear to make these rain clouds! He planned to control the weather to hinder us! As expected, the rain clouds turned into thunderclouds, causing heavy rain to fall down onto the field accompanied by lightning strikes! The ice-cold drops of water rained down heavily on our bodies, instantly increasing the effort we had to make, and if 'rain' continued to fall on us, our stamina would quickly be exhausted! Even dodging the lightning strikes would drain us of energy! However, we would also take damage if we were hit by it! My comrades dodged the bolts of lightning while moving underneath the falling rai, doing their best to rush towards the ball — but appearing in that place were Angels encased in bubbles! —Damn it! It's Dulio's ability!"
The comrades are referring to his team in Azazel cup which are Asia, Ravel, Rossweise, Bova, Nakiri, Xenovia, Irina, and Elmenhilde. So basically, even Asia has lighting dodging feat and I can guarantee that Base Issei>Asia by quite a huge margin.
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- #145
Lightning timers have existed since early on. If Akeno's lightning manipulation hadn't been retconned to thunder manipulation, we would have had lightning timers since Riser's debut.
There's also one where Walburga reacts to Dulio's lightning from a thundercloud he summoned on top of her in a building or something. I don't remember where exactly it was. Just that it was in heaven.
There's also one where Walburga reacts to Dulio's lightning from a thundercloud he summoned on top of her in a building or something. I don't remember where exactly it was. Just that it was in heaven.
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Seems like Vali's feat is going to be taken as pulverization, so it's better to add a pulverization value to the calc. Then we'll add it to his profile as a casual feat.
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I am going to edit the blog now.
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- #149
It's not clear yet.
If Vali's feat does not provide an upgrade, I think it will be:
Attack Potency: At least Island level | At least Island level | At least Island level, likely higher | At least Island level, likely far higher | At least Island level, likely far higher
Key: Balance Breaker | Triaina Forms | Cardinal Crimson Promotio | Pseudo Diabolos Dragon God | Diabolos Dragon God
High-class and Ultimate-class characters = At least Island level.
Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely higher.
God-class characters = At least Island level, likely far higher.
We can't give them higher than that since someone will probably downgrade them if they notice they have the stats without calcs.
I can see finite Ophis being High 6-C since it's twice as strong as Ddraig and Albion at their peak combined though.
If Vali's feat does not provide an upgrade, I think it will be:
Attack Potency: At least Island level | At least Island level | At least Island level, likely higher | At least Island level, likely far higher | At least Island level, likely far higher
Key: Balance Breaker | Triaina Forms | Cardinal Crimson Promotio | Pseudo Diabolos Dragon God | Diabolos Dragon God
High-class and Ultimate-class characters = At least Island level.
Satan-class characters = At least Island level, likely higher.
God-class characters = At least Island level, likely far higher.
We can't give them higher than that since someone will probably downgrade them if they notice they have the stats without calcs.
I can see finite Ophis being High 6-C since it's twice as strong as Ddraig and Albion at their peak combined though.
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Wasn't Vali stated by the author to be as fast as Light back when he was first introduced (holding back and blitzing someone that apparently had enough power to take out a whole region)? Through scaling, Issei is probably MFTL+ by now.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,243
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It is debunk by feats and calc. Same with Solar System Bursting Ise and Planet Bursting Sairaorg. Wrap up, Ishi like to make vague statement and fan start hype thing up.Superalexiy said:
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@Burning Full Fingers For the lightning being retconned to thunder, there's a chance that this may not be entirely true.
There's a chance that they are using this kanji "ÚøÀ," which could mean lightning, thunder, or thunderbolt
Remember that since the series have multiple translators, they may have used one of the words over the other.
It would be nice if anyone can confirm which kanji is used for Akeno's lightning.
@GoodDaySir For relativistic speed calc, why not try to in clude it there too so it could be analyzed along with the rest of the calcs?
@Superalexiy author never stated Vali is as fast as light. The lightspeed statements were from Issei, who is also the narrator in-series for the most part (I'll say about > 90% of the time), which could be a hyperbole
There's a chance that they are using this kanji "ÚøÀ," which could mean lightning, thunder, or thunderbolt
Remember that since the series have multiple translators, they may have used one of the words over the other.
It would be nice if anyone can confirm which kanji is used for Akeno's lightning.
@GoodDaySir For relativistic speed calc, why not try to in clude it there too so it could be analyzed along with the rest of the calcs?
@Superalexiy author never stated Vali is as fast as light. The lightspeed statements were from Issei, who is also the narrator in-series for the most part (I'll say about > 90% of the time), which could be a hyperbole
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@Gotta
Kiba is the narrator in volumes 3 and 6. He mentioned the speed of light.
Kiba is the narrator in volumes 3 and 6. He mentioned the speed of light.
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Vol 7 :
"Fenrir's murderous intents increased along with it. Its emotionless and cold eyes are directed at us….
Koneko-chan and Xenovia step in front of the injured me and their master Buchou to act as our shield! Stop! It's useless! That's a wolf that cracked open my armour! Both of you won't be able to endure it!
-My comrades are about to be killed!
No! I don't want that! At this rate we will be annihilated! I don't want that! To end like this…..
While my head gets full with despair, a single light passes through my sight.
It went past the wolf at the speed of light…."
Vol 7 :
"SWISH!
Vali made his move! He moved in the sky while creating a course of light in a zig-zag, and closed his distance with Loki at high-speed.
I also ignited the thrusters on my back along with his movement!
From the sky Vali, and from the ground I go heading towards him!
"A combination between the Red and the White!
Vali created light while they moved. This is not better than a statement?
"Fenrir's murderous intents increased along with it. Its emotionless and cold eyes are directed at us….
Koneko-chan and Xenovia step in front of the injured me and their master Buchou to act as our shield! Stop! It's useless! That's a wolf that cracked open my armour! Both of you won't be able to endure it!
-My comrades are about to be killed!
No! I don't want that! At this rate we will be annihilated! I don't want that! To end like this…..
While my head gets full with despair, a single light passes through my sight.
It went past the wolf at the speed of light…."
Vol 7 :
"SWISH!
Vali made his move! He moved in the sky while creating a course of light in a zig-zag, and closed his distance with Loki at high-speed.
I also ignited the thrusters on my back along with his movement!
From the sky Vali, and from the ground I go heading towards him!
"A combination between the Red and the White!
Vali created light while they moved. This is not better than a statement?
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,243
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like i said, both Ise and Kiba mention it, but feats and calc debunk it. You need to remember that almost all of FTL to MFTL speed of many characters is through feats, scaling and calc. Feats/Scaling/Calc > Word of Author > In-Universe Statement
One more thing is context, sometime writer like to use flowery word to increase the intense of battle or thing. And this is fiction story with magic, they have light doesn't mean they move at speed of light or even Harry Potter verse will have FTL to MFTL We need feats and calc for speed, not statement.
One more thing is context, sometime writer like to use flowery word to increase the intense of battle or thing. And this is fiction story with magic, they have light doesn't mean they move at speed of light or even Harry Potter verse will have FTL to MFTL We need feats and calc for speed, not statement.
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- #157
@Muffins
That could be the case.
I think the one for speed would have to be in a separate blog. But generally, if there is an accepted calculation in Narutoforums, it's normally not evaluated by people here. If someone wants to use it here, it's either backed up or copy-pasted into a blog here while giving credit to whoever calculated it.
But if it's put in a blog here and someone wants to evaluate it, sure.
That could be the case.
I think the one for speed would have to be in a separate blog. But generally, if there is an accepted calculation in Narutoforums, it's normally not evaluated by people here. If someone wants to use it here, it's either backed up or copy-pasted into a blog here while giving credit to whoever calculated it.
But if it's put in a blog here and someone wants to evaluate it, sure.
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I just finish editing the calculation with Kaltias help,
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GoodDaySir/AP_Upgrade
Anyway, I will say that we should use the pulveriztion value for BB Issei, which is Island Level and then use Vali's Small Country Level result (there is an argument that support vaporization result, look at the note at Final Tally part).
From then, we can just put Maou class being, Heavenly Dragon, Super Devil, and other between them.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GoodDaySir/AP_Upgrade
Anyway, I will say that we should use the pulveriztion value for BB Issei, which is Island Level and then use Vali's Small Country Level result (there is an argument that support vaporization result, look at the note at Final Tally part).
From then, we can just put Maou class being, Heavenly Dragon, Super Devil, and other between them.
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I just finish editing the calculation with Kaltias help,
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GoodDaySir/AP_Upgrade
Anyway, I will say that we should use the pulveriztion value for BB Issei, which is Island Level and then use Vali's Small Country Level result (there is an argument that support vaporization result, look at the note at Final Tally part).
From then, we can just put Maou class being, Heavenly Dragon, Super Devil, and other between them.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GoodDaySir/AP_Upgrade
Anyway, I will say that we should use the pulveriztion value for BB Issei, which is Island Level and then use Vali's Small Country Level result (there is an argument that support vaporization result, look at the note at Final Tally part).
From then, we can just put Maou class being, Heavenly Dragon, Super Devil, and other between them.
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Current Ise BxB is stronger than in Volumes 5-21. Also some tiering of DxD:
Low-class < Middle-class <<<<< High-class Devils <<< Ultimate-class Devils (current Ise BxB) << Maou-class <= strong Maou-class (Ise CxC, Grayfia, Diehauser, Serafall, Falbium, Bedeze, Roygun, Vasco Strada younger form with Durandal II) << Above Maou-class (Vali weakned EJOD, Rias Balor form, Dulio, Cao Cao and Tobio's Balance Breakers, Sairaog Beast form) < God-class (Loki, Fenrir 80%) < Chief God-class (Vidar base, Apollo, Rizevim, Vali EJOD) < Low tiers of Top-10 (Vidar with boots, Fenrir prime, Typhon, Thor) << Heavenly Dragon-class/Super Devils (Apophis, Azi-Dahaka, Ddraig, Albion, Sirzechs, Ajuka, Vidar with armor and boots, Ise current Pseudo DxD G, Vali DxD L) < Crom Cruach < Indra < 3 Hindu Chief Gods <<<<<<<<<<< Dragon God-class (Great Red, Prime Ophis, Trihexa 666, Balberith)
Low-class < Middle-class <<<<< High-class Devils <<< Ultimate-class Devils (current Ise BxB) << Maou-class <= strong Maou-class (Ise CxC, Grayfia, Diehauser, Serafall, Falbium, Bedeze, Roygun, Vasco Strada younger form with Durandal II) << Above Maou-class (Vali weakned EJOD, Rias Balor form, Dulio, Cao Cao and Tobio's Balance Breakers, Sairaog Beast form) < God-class (Loki, Fenrir 80%) < Chief God-class (Vidar base, Apollo, Rizevim, Vali EJOD) < Low tiers of Top-10 (Vidar with boots, Fenrir prime, Typhon, Thor) << Heavenly Dragon-class/Super Devils (Apophis, Azi-Dahaka, Ddraig, Albion, Sirzechs, Ajuka, Vidar with armor and boots, Ise current Pseudo DxD G, Vali DxD L) < Crom Cruach < Indra < 3 Hindu Chief Gods <<<<<<<<<<< Dragon God-class (Great Red, Prime Ophis, Trihexa 666, Balberith)
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