Bleach: Yhwach, The Soul King and "Can't Fear Your Own World"

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Not....really.

It would easily be an outlier on pretty huge proportions. The feat itself can be legit, it just wouldnt be applicable for obvious reasons.

I see no reason to assume Gremmy is creating galaxies when it's more simpler and logical for him to BFR an opponent in that manner.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The moment this thread was made I knew people would gleefully ignore the OP and just push for the highest nonsense they could go for. That the three worlds were made and placed in different realities is true. But nothing about it indicates Universal Scale.

I am fine with 5-B / 5-A whatever calcs indicate. Personality I find the business with the sun far too speculative to base a tier on, but I could settle for "At least 5-B, Possibly 4-C" or something like that.

People trying to use Viz Translations, Galaxy Rooms, the fact that the universe / dimensions have stars in it (No shit) to argue for 4-A, 3-C, 2-C Soul King please stop, this thread will only get worst if you keep pushing for bait like that.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Thanks for actually reading the whole thing, Matthew.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not....really.

It would easily be an outlier on pretty huge proportions. The feat itself can be legit, it just wouldnt be applicable for obvious reasons.

I see no reason to assume Gremmy is creating galaxies when it's more simpler and logical for him to BFR an opponent in that manner.

But where is it being BFR'd to? Thats the problem I have with this.

Gremmy's speciality is imagination creation and manipulation. If we have evidence of Gremmy BFR'ing Zaraki to Soul Society's outer space, then id gladly accept this as nothing but BFR. But if thats just an assumption, it can easily just be something Gremmy conjured up via his Visionary.

A massive outlier obviously, but a legitimate feat in itself.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

There is no speculation, he's the only being capable of doing it therefore he made the sun.

Also Galaxy room is legit since it's a BFR go space, the starry sky is also evidence unless we assume it's fake for some reason. Evidence isn't bait.

 

[AppleLord]

That's false, there is no name given and Hollowfication per the manga and databook is the term for using Hollow powers on top of your innate powers.

Yet, Yhwach asks Ichigo if that's the form he takes when he merges with his Hollow, and Ichigo says Yes, so that's Merged Hollow form.

That's incorrect, Yhwach says: "This is the form you take when you meld with your Hollow Powers?"

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@Kukui

Being BFR'd to space as it shows.

The feat can be interpreted in two ways, but why should we assume the highest highball for Gremmy instead of a reasonable lowball?

Edit: Gremmy couldn't make a large meteor by himself, he needed two. So why would Gremmy be able to make galaxies with 7 of himself? It has to be a BFR.

 

[HST_Master]

Actually, why are we so certain that Gremmy's Galaxy Room was referring to the outer space of the Soul Society instead of it just being a construct he himself imagined up?

Because that would mean 3-C Gremmy and then the scaling goes to hell.

 

[Xulrev]

For Prime Soul King:

I think its obvious that we cant rigorously tier the feat of creating and establishing supports for splitting a world into 3 dimensions. However, we can indeed look at the fact that he had to have created several stars/planets or had to have moved them through space time to put them into their disparate dimensional spaces to allow for and equalize the flow of souls.

As such, it would be either a calc of the creation of several planetary bodies and a couple stars, or a calc of physically moving them through space into an alignment such that the SK could erect dimensional barriers.

In either case, I can't see the prime SK being below a tier 4 or so. Creation of numerous planetary bodies and solar bodies as well as moving them into place, the stabilization of all spacetime, and explicit knowledge that even a weakened SK keeps the entire system in balance? Everything points to a massively powerful Solar-tier character as a supreme lowball.

Further, prime SK would pretty explicitly have every power in Bleach, reasonably. He is a legit Composite Character due to having a vastly stronger Almighty than Yhwach; the same Almighty that enables its user to subjugate any ability it witnesses, and the same Almighty that gives oneself precognition to such a degree that Prime SK explicitly foresaw everything that would occur in the future...thus must have seen every ability.

Prime SK should have every power in Bleach arguably, and is absolutely Tier 4 imho

 

[USklaverei]

There's also something that intrigues me.
As Imade mentioned in the OP, the Dangai is a different space and time disconnected from the time and spaces of the Soul Society and the World of the Living. It is a disconnected space that is surrounded by a torrent of layers of time.

If SK created this, would not it be something like 4D?

Could someone get my doubt?

 

[Sekkonds.]

But where is it being BFR'd to? Thats the problem I have with this.

What?you see a portal,gremmy stats it's to outer space..what space could it be except soul society space?the place they are fighting in?are you trying to say that he warped him real world?although this is pure headcanon with no evidence to support at all but it does scale to soulking

 

[AppleLord]

Actually, why are we so certain that Gremmy's Galaxy Room was referring to the outer space of the Soul Society instead of it just being a construct he himself imagined up?

Simple the author didn't intended Gremmy to be that strong when his defeat came by imagining Kenpachi's strength which is lower than that feat, Gremmy couldn't had created a dimension, so using rationality base on Gremmy's words it's a portal. But to the living world or to Soul Society where Grammy has lived for the past thousand years? Base on the Tousen scan here outer space exist in Soul Society.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That doesn't scale to any tier in itself. We dropped the dimensions = powah immediate assumptions a long time ago.

@Imade

To answer my doubts. Weakened Soul King only scales go the Three Worlds stuff right?

So the potential Tier 4 stuff with the sun only applies to Prime Soul King?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What?you see a portal,gremmy stats it's to outer space..what space could it be except soul society space?the place they are fighting in?are you trying to say that he warped him real world?although this is pure headcanon with no evidence to support at all but it does scale to soulking

Or a pocket dimension he imagined, which is his speciality?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui
Being BFR'd to space as it shows.

The feat can be interpreted in two ways, but why should we assume the highest highball for Gremmy instead of a reasonable lowball?

Edit: Gremmy couldn't make a large meteor by himself, he needed two. So why would Gremmy be able to make galaxies with 7 of himself? It has to be a BFR.

Fair point here. All im saying is unless there's evidence that Zaraki was going to be BFR'd to soul societys outer space to prove it has that many stars and whatnot in its dimension, we should not claim the SS has said stars like its 100% factual.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

That doesn't scale to any tier in itself. We dropped the dimensions = powah immediate assumptions a long time ago.
@Imade

To answer my doubts. Weakened Soul King only scales go the Three Worlds stuff right?

So the potential Tier 4 stuff with the sun only applies to Prime Soul King?

Yes!

People are glossing over this in the OP.

 

[M11UTD]

Seems pretty solid, Though I have only 2 problems..

First is Mimihagi, I don't think he held the worlds with his power, it was more like he used the Soul King's corpse since it was shown he was holding it, same way he was keeping Ukitake alive (Ukitake died the moment Mimihagi left him). Also he was below pre SK Yhwach who was comparable to Ichibei.

Second isn't really something big, but if the real world was accepted to be universe sized, should same be applied to Soul Society since it was stated that they are parallel to each other?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

There is no speculation, he's the only being capable of doing it therefore he made the sun.
Also Galaxy room is legit since it's a BFR go space, the starry sky is also evidence unless we assume it's fake for some reason. Evidence isn't bait.

It most definitely isnt fake, and thats not something I suggested at all.

But what would be a possibility is its BFR into a space that Gremmy imagined up. Making it an outlier feat of Gremmys

EDIT: Nvm.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You're not paying attention Kukui, galaxy room doesn't prove countless stars. We saw them clearly via Tosen. Maybe someone will post the scan since I'm on mobile.

 

[FuuHouHou]

Actually, why are we so certain that Gremmy's Galaxy Room was referring to the outer space of the Soul Society instead of it just being a construct he himself imagined up?

Simple the author didn't intended Gremmy to be that strong when his defeat came by imagining Kenpachi's strength which is lower than that feat, Gremmy couldn't had created a dimension, so using rationality base on Gremmy's words it's a portal. But to the living world or to Soul Society where Grammy has lived for the past thousand years? Base on the Tousen scan here outer space exist in Soul Society.

I find it easier to believe that Gremmy has created a kind of portal. With this, he played Zaraki in the middle of outer space present in the Soul Society. Literally some galaxies are sighted there, it has gone very far.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Kukui That last post you made was too Matthew.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

My take here:

Prime Soul King: "At least 5-A, likely/possibly 4-C

Weaksauce Boi: 5-B probably since he's only holding / supporting the three worlds and not much else.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You're not paying attention Kukui, galaxy room doesn't prove countless stars. We saw them clearly via Tosen. Maybe someone will post the scan since I'm on mobile.

Apple posted his scan before I could see it when I posting my replies.

So nvm.

 

[AppleLord]

You forgot that Soul King IS Quincy he wasn't using Blut Vene to enhance his durability to 5-B when Ichigo killed him, therefore Shikai Ichigo killing weakened Soul King isn't a feat.

 

[Sekkonds.]

My take here:

Prime Soul King: "At least 5-A, likely/possibly 4-C

Weaksauce Boi: 5-B probably since he's only holding / supporting the three worlds and not much else.

Best solution

 

[FuuHouHou]

My take here:
Prime Soul King: "At least 5-A, likely/possibly 4-C

Weaksauce Boi: 5-B probably since he's only holding / supporting the three worlds and not much else.

The feat that ranks the other characters, and what ranks the Soul King are different.

 

[Qawsedf234]

5-B is fine with me. If the Soul King gets a profile I can maybe back 3-C. But as mentioned in the OP no one scales beyond 5-B.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

My take here:
Prime Soul King: "At least 5-A, likely/possibly 4-C

Weaksauce Boi: 5-B probably since he's only holding / supporting the three worlds and not much else.

Taking this same stance.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

If anyone is wondering what my interpretation is of all this:


Prime Soul King: At least 4-C (made at least 1 star), likely much higher (made 3 worlds and 2 moons along the planet).


Weakened Soul King: Whatever the Tier is for colliding 3 planets and stopping 3 planets from colliding and moving them back (It should probably be calc'd and I assume it's probably 5-A).

 

[AppleLord]

This question is not related to the post, but I have to ask. Will other light novel characters like Tokinad, and Hikone get profiles?

 

[ShivaShakti]

I can agree with 5-A/4-C for Prime SK, but for weakened SK I think he'd still be 5-A on the basis it's multiple worlds. Or it could just be higher up in 5-B

 

[USklaverei]

So we have something here.

If the stars were not created, SK had to drag them to that spot, that would be a feat of enormous speed;

 

[HST_Master]

It most definitely isnt fake, and thats not something I suggested at all.

But what would be a possibility is its BFR into a space that Gremmy imagined up. Making it an outlier feat of Gremmys

It's too assumptous to say Gremmy made that space instead of simply. Also Tosen's Flashback shows stars. That said, I agree with Imade on the scaling, 5-A is a safe lowball for WSK and everyone else would start the scaling chain from Weakened SK who only keeps the worlds from Crashing into one another and has had a multitude of his body parts taken from him.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Is the Soul King getting his page back at all or nah?

I vaguely remember we had one a long while ago but we deleted it because the SK wasnt a combative character.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nobody is 3-A here Qaw that's like the most direct point I'm the whole OP. The thing he argued for the most was 4-C

 

[FuuHouHou]

So we have something here.
If the stars were not created, SK had to drag them to that spot, that would be a feat of enormous speed;

this

 

[AppleLord]

Is the Soul King getting his page back at all or nah?

I vaguely remember we had one a long while ago but we deleted it because the SK wasnt a combative character.

Yes. We also need to add Prime Key which fought and stomp a Giant Menos with hax.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm perfectly okay with a higher tiered Soul King. Also, remember that 5-A was multi planet by name alone. Holding back 3 planets may or may not be 5-A. It very well could be, but it's not for certain.

 

[Sekkonds.]

This question is not related to the post, but I have to ask. Will other light novel characters like Tokinad, and Hikone get profiles?

Sure,like azashiro and SK

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

He should be at least 4-C, and likely or possibly 3-C.