Bleach Top Tiers Downgrade

[Dr.Fix]

As far as context and consistancy goes, pixel is better. This is perhaps the dumbest and most false statement I've heard about Bleach. If this doesn't show a bias and narrative pushing then I don't know what is.
There are no two aerials or visuals of Seireitei that are consistent to one another of the . . .

You're blatantly lying and being misleading if you're honestly saying that pixel scaling is more consistent as well as consistent with context.

I'm not even going to respond to this sort of heated narrative until you calm down and stick to facts respectfully.

@Xulev: thanks for providing examples. As I aluded to above^, statements regarding time =/= distance without solving for other factors (SPD, Proximity, etc) and currently we only have fan generated numbers.

Yes, we can use assumptions when we have nothing else to go off of, but when we have alternative (Illustration) and our assumptions have clear contradictions then we neither need them nor should we use them. Do you know of any of the dozens of visuals which depict Seretei as being nearly as big as the Yoruichi calcs would suggest? To my knowledge there are none, let alone a majority which would be consistency.

 

[Aernasilver]

What are you on about? What you just wrote is incoherent.

What assumptions? It's literally stated multiple times that Seireitei is big. And what contradictions? The statements all suggest it is big. The illustration is the contradicted one.

 

[Antvasima]

IMade usually has a good sense of judgement, and his approach seems to make sense to me, but it is best to ask Soldier Blue for input.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Dr. Fix

>Argues to not use the only consistent things about Seireitei's size

>Reasoning is that inconsistent visuals contradict it (lets ignore the fact that said visuals contradict each other as well)

Surely you can see what is wrong with this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We did ask Soldier Blue and he said he'd go over every comment and decide which end is best when he has time. But there are divided results between the community in which either Applelord's Low 6-B calc or Imade's 6-B calc is better. But I'll point some strengths and weaknesses on both sides.

First of all, the majority and the fanbase seem to agree more with Imade's due to "Statements". Some refutes are things pointed out by Damage that "10 Walkdays in diameter" or "40 walkdays in circumference" isn't really a unit length but an educated guess; but using the average walking speed for 16 hours a day (Because 8 hours of sleep). But 1 Walk day = around 80 kilometers isn't too far off.

But the other side is pixel scaling; since the other is based on educated guesses and pixel scaling is pure mathematical. But the refutes against those is pixel scaling not being 100% accurate for many verses. As many works often understate or exaggerate the height difference between two characters; though some more than others. Or authors/artists being all to good at math to begin with; which could be a refute on both ends.

Tata and I are fairly neutral on both calcs, and the majority do appear to agree more with Imade's calculation, but at the same time; neither calc is perfect and a few of the supporters were a bit discriminant towards those who like Applelord's calc. I agree with waiting for Soldier Blue, but if it takes too long, I think we might as well lean toward Imade's calc given the overall majority.

 

[Captain_Torch]

I think that pixelscaling is more reliable than making educated assumptions based on how long it will take to travel through seiretei.

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Okay. Thank you for the summary.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I think that pixelscaling is more reliable than making educated assumptions based on how long it will take to travel through seiretei.

1st you need to post 3 consistent pictures of Seireitei if they exist. Then I'd like for you to explain to me how exactly random building >>>> years of consistent statements. Btw you know calcs using pixel scaling is an educated guess too right?

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Sigurd

"years if conistent statements" - There was 1 statement, and no matter how consistent it is, the fact is that using "time to travel" to determine distance can be quite inaccurate.

And pixel scaling is more reliable since you use math to find the sizes based on the panels themselves.

So yes, I do in fact believe, that pixelscaling is more accurate in this situation

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Torch

This means you haven't bothered reading the previous messages in the thread honestly, it's more then 1 statement smh. One of them even gives us the distance between two of the gates. Then you state that consistency doesn't matter? dude what?

And no it isn't, the panels contradicts themselves every single time. That is literally the point. Your argument is flawed and is the exact one as Dr.Fix which got dismantled above.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

It's almost as if you have not read anything in this thread, but i'll attempt to address your... post.

>pixel scaling is more reliable since you use math to find the sizes based on the panels themselves

1. everything uses math.

2. Your point is not even a point all you did was literally describe what pixel scaling is not why it should be used.

3. based on the panels that change drastically between every panel and are visually incorrect.

4.Authors give no shit about pixel scaling since normal people wouldn't do that.

5. actually read this thread please don't waste peoples time. theres many statements like what xulrev said. feel free to address him instead of blindly yelling out something which has been about as thoroughly debunked as a anti-vaxer facebook post

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Sigurd and @Gilga

I'd appreciate if you two would stop being so agressive in your posts. This is a discussion, and if someone's opinion differs from yours, it doesn't mean he's automatically wrong.

And yes, I only skimmed through the thread, given how big it is.

However, I'll try to counter your "counter-arguments"

1. Yes, however there is a difference between using math to find the sizes on-panel, and assuming that a perrson was walking at a certain speed with certain breaks to find the distance. The 2nd method is far less reliable in my opinion.

2. This "point" was just a rant, so nothing to counter.

3. No method is perfect. In situations like these we need to find a more accurate/reliable method.

4. And they give even less "*****" on calculating how much distance a person would travel throughout a certain time

5. You are the only one yelling here. I actually am adressing your points, and just because you disagree doesn't mean I am "blindly yelling out something which has been about as thoroughly debunked as a anti-vaxer facebook post". I get that you want Bleach to be stronger, but attacking other people for simply disagreeing with you is not the way to go.

EDIT:

And honestly, Medeus summed up the points pretty accurately. Both methods have "pros" and "cons", I just believe that the 1st method is more accurate.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

how the heck do you have problems working out the math behind how far one person can move during a day? I don't know what to say. really. primary schoolers can work that out.

obviously the author must have some clue considering it's repeatedly used to describe distances.

i think counting pixels then scaling them to certain objects that are different every single time is unreliable.

I don't care if bleach is stronger I just thought i'd address your... point..... post? yeah. that.

I won't be responding to you further since it will yield nothing and your points aren't even points, just a "Rant" and "opinion" as you put it. opinion without any given reasons let alone valid ones.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Gilga

I won't be responding to you further as well, since all you can do apparently is steep to insults.

Have a good day.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

1. Except the first method is completely inconsistent while the second is a lowball for characters who are all far above normal humans physically.

3. I think we can all agree with the sentiment here. Problem is that we disagree on which is more more reliable/accurate.

4. Very true however it is fairly obvious that using the average speed of humans for a feat performed by humans who are very obviously at least average is a viable method.

5. I aint getting into that shit.

 

[Sekkonds.]

it's kinda stupid to do all this just about seiritey size over and over again,with the same points being brought for countless times

 

[Zezu1995]

would be easily if creators could give us good info so we wouldnt have tooo.. i wish kubo was like nabaka who answers questions sometimes with each manga page

 

[Dr.Fix]

You're not wrong and it would make some things easier. The sad thing is this doesn't have to be about Seretei.

Does Gremmy destroy the Seretei and everyone in it? No

Does he say he would? Yes.

Is the source (Gremmy) contradicted? Yes.

Is there an alternative? Yes

Is it Seretei? No

 

[Antvasima]

I will unsubscribe from this thread now. You can send me a message if you need my help with something.

 

[Zezu1995]

question do yamamoto scale from the gremmy or his heat calc?

 

[TataHakai]

You're not wrong and it would make some things easier. The sad thing is this doesn't have to be about Seretei.
Is the source (Gremmy) contradicted? Yes.

When was Gremmy's meteor being capable of destroying Seiretei contradicted?

Also as for the rest of this looks like we're just waiting on Soldier Blue i guess

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Zeu he has no feats against Gremmy nor Post Shikai Zaraki so def his own heat calc. They shoudl both be low country level soon anyway (Or in Zaraki's case, possibly 6-b) so it doesn't matter too much.

@Tata Gremmy considered the power of his meteor great enough to wipe out the Seretei's populatio , including Zaraki, YHWH, and others. Obviously this was proven false for at least Zaraki and I wager the community would point out YHWH>Gremmy too. He said this in the exact same time he was saying it would wipe out Seretei and one could argue he was meaning the population, as did someone on @Imade's blog, rather then the structures. Regardless the point goes towards source crediility . Gremmy estimation is wrong. To accept @Imade's proposal we must also accept a glaring Schrodenger's Kubo where in Gremmy is a reliable source only when it is beneficial but not determental to agendas.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

Theres some ascended 200iq fantheories here

 

[1997KD]

I guess all discussion here is completed, we just need another crt to decide which calc(imade or applelord) is going to be accepted

 

[TataHakai]

Gremmy wasn't the only person who made such a statement, Gremmy obviously didn't truly understand Kenpachi's power through the fight so saying that he's wrong altogether because he's wrong about one thing is asinine and an association fallacy.

Anyways 97KD is correct

 

[Dr.Fix]

Gremmy wasn't the only person who made such a statement. . .

I'm happy to be proven wrong but I do not think anyone else said "That will destroy everyone and everything in Seretei." At best there was some concern from a few characters. Its a leap to go from that to Zaraki>Gremmy>Everyone else. More likely this is just a straight up hyperbole where the villain overestimates his power and gets proven wrong.

That will probably be my last analysis on the situation. Hopefully this gets decided soon and after careful analysis by the powers that be.

 

[Xulrev]

Tata is correct here, to presume Seireitei would not be obliterated by a meteor 1/3 its size at ablated speeds due to Gremmy improperly gauging Zaraki's true strength is asinine by any reasonable deduction.

Gremmy imagined a meteor that would wipe out Seireitei. He created one large enough to do so. Zaraki just-so-happened to have a Shikai that amps his damage output such that he could fragment it in one swing. He got a demonstrable amp that Gremmy could not have conceived of.

It's somewhat absurd to even have to engage such a line of argumentation considering common sense dictates a meteor of mass that size impacting the ground at those speed would level a country outright, but there you have it.

 

[Zezu1995]

just saying with 5-10x for bankai 20x for seal kenpachi goes from country to cont anyways so whats really the point in this?

 

[1997KD]

I don't think bleach multiplier is accepted here?

 

[Zezu1995]

lucky me for not only using this site and i asked for 5 and 10x as low end and high end both still gave cont

 

[1997KD]

It does not depend on "site" tho, pretty sure some bleach fans can you give you example who bankai multiplier is inaccurate

 

[Zezu1995]

thats why i said 5 for low end and 10 for high end, since its between those two

 

[Ercosore]

Also where does the x20 kempachi comes from?

 

[Zezu1995]

Also where does the x20 kempachi comes from?

his seal is brand new and it drains 20x his rei to keep him in check

 

[TataHakai]

We don't use bankai multipliers, pretty sure Imade himself has proved that the multipliers aren't for speed or DC linearly, it depends from person to person and what their bankai abilities are.

 

[Zezu1995]

and kenpachi is literally raw power alone so meaning his multipliers are for DC since his zanpkuto has no abilities

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

He got ya there

 

[Zezu1995]

i always get him... but yall dont listen :/ sometimes i wonder why i bother with this damn site :/

 

[Peter1129]

Kenpachi's new eyepatch is not a 20x boost. It merely drains ten times more reiatsu than his previous one which already gives an unknown power boost.

 

[Zezu1995]

yes ik i stated that in the last post . i should've copied it here (maybe i still have the copy and paste) theres slight issues with kennys seal tho hes still large country to cont but to be higher we gotta figure out his sealing issue, so far his old seal didnt give us a number and new seal , seals 20x more than the old... espada 5 did use ress to counter his old seal and their ress is the same as bankai.. not sure if we can scale that but do anyone have any info on the old seal?