-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bleach Top Tiers Downgrade
- Thread starter TataHakai
- Start date
- Status
- 8,153
- 2,177
Ehh i'd have to rewatch the scene. It had something do with Mayuri's lab. I could look for the scene if you really want to know.
- 8,153
- 2,177
Ok the scene said the damage to Seireitei was 200 spirit miles from east to west. And that it was also 1/3rd of Seireitei grounds? (Was the dub).
- 1,461
- 764
This is probably the most arbitrary argument for dismissing numerous explicit and consistent statements I consistently encounter; the statements are numerous, the evidence is consistent, and no reason exists to presume "Well the author simply doesn't know what he's talking about" when the author makes it clear across several forms of media it is what he intends. How well would that go over, I wonder, for someone stating Superman never hits with planet-busting force simply because 'Well the author doesn't recognize the scope of how much damage that would cause so we can dismiss it'. Same argument applied to a different form of fiction, at base. And we all know that would be laughed out of the convo.Damage3245 said:
Further, we do have canonical numbers. They're just given in unique measurements. 40 days of walking is a measurement. It's not a precise mathemtical one, but it's objective data given to us via the author. It cannot be rationalized away while still being 'objective and accurate' about the verse and the sizes therein.
Also, @Tata:
Yes. Yamamoto himself orders a quarantine radius of 300 ri both East and West to contain the issue from Mayuri's lab.
- 57
- 3
The currently accepted calc already uses the 10 days statement. The calc was made by RavenSupreme on the banned persons thread and since the results from the two calcs (Tata's and Raven's) differ the two need to discuss each others approach and determine which is best before we go through any revisions. By the way shouldn't it be 16 hours of walking? Also the Hueco Mundo calc needs to be downgraded based on DontTalk's revision of distance to the horizon being 20 km
- 8,153
- 2,177
24-8(resting)=16George Hatziantoni said:
Mind me asking where this calc is? because the one above was pretty basic math to get a size.
Don't know bout Hueco Mundo.
- 57
- 3
Like I said it was on a banned persons thread so we cant see the comments which is why we need Raven my memory of the whole calc is foggy tbh.
- 57
- 3
And yeah Tata wrote 18 hours above so that needs to be fixed
- 8,153
- 2,177
this is it, you may be reading something else.George Hatziantoni said:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...nd_New_Seireitei_Size_(Using_Only_Statements)
- 57
- 3
No I am not, Tata says "It's best to assume they walk for at least 18 hours a day, with 8 hours for sleep". The result with 16 hours is a 509 km radius and 3200 circumference
- 8,153
- 2,177
@George
Tata: It's best to assume they walk for at least 18 hours a day, with 8 hours for sleep
that'd make the circumference 3600 kilometers
The diameter 1146.49681529 km and radius 573.248407645 km
Blog: In a calc done by calc member TataHakai, accounting for 8 hours of rest each day would give Seireitei a circumference of 3600 kilometers and a radius of 573.248407645 km.
I'm confused.
Tata: It's best to assume they walk for at least 18 hours a day, with 8 hours for sleep
that'd make the circumference 3600 kilometers
The diameter 1146.49681529 km and radius 573.248407645 km
Blog: In a calc done by calc member TataHakai, accounting for 8 hours of rest each day would give Seireitei a circumference of 3600 kilometers and a radius of 573.248407645 km.
I'm confused.
- 278
- 192
18+8 = 26Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
either days in seireitei are 26 hours now,or tata has a mistake in his calc
- 8,153
- 2,177
Ohhh i see it now, I suppose George is correct.
- 4,327
- 2,978
I see the mistake, should've double checked Tata's numbers. I'll correct the blog when I'm not on mobile.
- 14,575
- 5,876
It's incredible that even when I joked about that nobody noticed.
- 8,153
- 2,177
I was looking for that comment lol.Calaca Vs said:
- 4,327
- 2,978
Fixed the calc.
- 31,208
- 27,406
On the topic of going with statements (including statements coming from characters), what do we make of Candice saying that one of her arrows is equal to 5 gigajoules?
- 2,684
- 317
Her being dumb, even Lilotto shoots down the 5 gigajoules saying it's weak Although, to be fair 5 gigajoules would indeed turn most humans and even hollows into ash.
- 4,327
- 2,978
Can we stick to Gremmy, meteors and Seireitei first?
We first need the calc accepted first to go forward with statements.
We first need the calc accepted first to go forward with statements.
- 2,426
- 476
Damage does bring up another schrondenger's Kubo in that we treat Candice's power as lightning when it gives high results (Speed) but we do not if it gives lower results (AP).
BTW has anyone yet created a blog comparing @Iamde's and @Apple's calcs for the calc staff to weigh in?
BTW has anyone yet created a blog comparing @Iamde's and @Apple's calcs for the calc staff to weigh in?
- 237
- 20
wasn't it stated that her lighting is superior to natural lighting will she is weaker
- 4,327
- 2,978
Can we move forward with my calc on Gremmy's meteor and the new statements position now?
It has been accepted by both Tata and Soldier Blue with Ant saying it can be used now.
It has been accepted by both Tata and Soldier Blue with Ant saying it can be used now.
- 31,370
- 34,117
It was agreed that it should preferably be discussed whether or not that one or Applelord's version was holds more weight.
- 8,153
- 2,177
Pretty that was all explained here why it wouldn't. What weight does it even have?
- 4,327
- 2,978
Literally everytime you've made a comment on this thread it's been far behind the actual discussion and on the previous topic.DarkDragonMedeus said:
It was not agreed that it should be discussed which holds more weight. It was agreed on this thread to use statements over pixel scaling to stay consistent plus the fact that Seireitei's size had an "agreed" previous size by RavenSupreme using a mixture of statements and pixel-scaling with a compromise.
In this thread it was agreed to use statements which Applelord's calc does not do.
Following that it was already discussed and the calc was done by TataHakai, I corrected it and got a lower yield since he messed up, but stayed on using the accepted statement position. It was this new calc that was accepted by Tata, Soldier Blue and Ant gave it the go-ahead to move forward and apply.
- 31,370
- 34,117
I did say I was fine either way, and Tata did say on both blogs that they're good; which is the reason for it. In this blog, Tata said this.
I've always preferred this to scaling from seiretei
Scaling from seiretei is dishonest, you have to ignore pixel scaling to get the meteor to an inflated size then use pixel scaling to get the meteor to that inflated size, it literally contradicts one another
The calcs look fine math wise.
Antvasima also said this
Well, somebody still needs to assemble the different versions of the Bleach calculations to a single thread in the calc group forum, so several of the members can give input regarding which of them that should be used.
In other words, Soldier Blue and/or Tatahakai should preferably comment here again to say which method of the two calcs they prefer.
I've always preferred this to scaling from seiretei
Scaling from seiretei is dishonest, you have to ignore pixel scaling to get the meteor to an inflated size then use pixel scaling to get the meteor to that inflated size, it literally contradicts one another
The calcs look fine math wise.
Antvasima also said this
Well, somebody still needs to assemble the different versions of the Bleach calculations to a single thread in the calc group forum, so several of the members can give input regarding which of them that should be used.
In other words, Soldier Blue and/or Tatahakai should preferably comment here again to say which method of the two calcs they prefer.
- 8,153
- 2,177
That's because there was like 5 calcs for it once this thread was made. The main issue with the current calc was about speed which later turned into the method of getting the meteor's size. Both of these issues were resolved with the new calculation. All those statements you posted is prior to the evidence posted in this very thread.
Unless there is some new evidence against the statements we've provided that are all consistent in every media, there is no reason to use that random building that has little going for it in terms of consistency over clear and hard statements for such a massive structure.
Anyways, i'll ask for clarification.
Unless there is some new evidence against the statements we've provided that are all consistent in every media, there is no reason to use that random building that has little going for it in terms of consistency over clear and hard statements for such a massive structure.
Anyways, i'll ask for clarification.
- 2,426
- 476
its only 2019, Matt predicts it will be at least 2091 before anything is set.PaChi2 said:
But seriously Dragon is correct. Apple's was approved by both Dragon and Tata and other members. Imade's was approved by Soldier blue and tata said it was good, but tata prefered apples. Ant said a new thread has to be made for calc members to discuss which is preferable.
To my knowledge we're still waiting on that last step while Imade is trying to push his calc forward without it.
Either way we should get low 6-B>6 B bleach soon enough, preferably before the century turns.
- 13,587
- 5,754
Except we have finally agreed to use statements (the only consistent representation of Seireitei across all forms of media, both canon and non canon) rather than pixel scaling (which has been proven to be inconsistent time and again at every turn to the point of being a meme for the verse).
- 8,153
- 2,177
^TataHakai said:
- 13,587
- 5,754
So statements it is.
- 2,426
- 476
We should really stop using one person to commit all Bleach stuff to. As a minimum, said expert (Not singling Soldier out here but anyone in said position) should provide a breakdown of why and why not as to avoid answers judgements like:TataHakai said:
"I agree with so and so"
"This character seem more/less powerful"
"I rule choice A"
etc.
As far as context and consistancy goes, pixel is better. One statement from Yoruichi regarding Time not distance (Yes, I know in a perfect world we could solve for X but this isn't a perfect world) and a statement from Gremmy that is explicitly made false VS scaling purely by the numbers Kubo gave us.
- 8,153
- 2,177
tbh what are you even talking about, your post confuses me honestly.
As far as context and consistancy goes, pixel is better.
Pretty much baseless conjecture right here, you won't find a single soul that will tell you pixels are more consisent here. The key words here are context and consistency, something that only the statements achieve in every media. Not your city block to town Seireitei drawings that contradict each other every single time. None of them ever even show all of the landmarks or even the Rukongai that surrounds it.
One statement from Yoruichi regarding Time not distance.
Now I seriosuly have to question if you've been keeping up with the thread or just choose to ignore information, it's not a single statement. If you're going to argue this at least be right. It's like 3 statements and another one from a movie that even gives us a direct size of distance between two of the gates. Not a single one of these statements go against each other.
a statement from Gremmy that is explicitly made false VS scaling purely by the numbers Kubo gave us.
Like what even is this honestly? what exactly does Gremmy have to do with size like at all? what statement are you even talking about? Also are you even aware that the calc you keep trying to back has Seiretei at like 5km or something? Makes me wonder why Toshiro would even say this? maybe he's an idiot and it actually covers all of Seiretei. Why is the structure so big that characters that know each other hardly ever see each other for extended periods of time?
As far as context and consistancy goes, pixel is better.
Pretty much baseless conjecture right here, you won't find a single soul that will tell you pixels are more consisent here. The key words here are context and consistency, something that only the statements achieve in every media. Not your city block to town Seireitei drawings that contradict each other every single time. None of them ever even show all of the landmarks or even the Rukongai that surrounds it.
One statement from Yoruichi regarding Time not distance.
Now I seriosuly have to question if you've been keeping up with the thread or just choose to ignore information, it's not a single statement. If you're going to argue this at least be right. It's like 3 statements and another one from a movie that even gives us a direct size of distance between two of the gates. Not a single one of these statements go against each other.
a statement from Gremmy that is explicitly made false VS scaling purely by the numbers Kubo gave us.
Like what even is this honestly? what exactly does Gremmy have to do with size like at all? what statement are you even talking about? Also are you even aware that the calc you keep trying to back has Seiretei at like 5km or something? Makes me wonder why Toshiro would even say this? maybe he's an idiot and it actually covers all of Seiretei. Why is the structure so big that characters that know each other hardly ever see each other for extended periods of time?
- 4,327
- 2,978
As far as context and consistancy goes, pixel is better.
This is perhaps the dumbest and most false statement I've heard about Bleach. If this doesn't show a bias and narrative pushing then I don't know what is.
There are no two aerials or visuals of Seireitei that are consistent to one another of the dozens we have. On top of that none of them are consistent nor accurate to the context of Seireitei like the forests, mountains, large buildings/pillars and the Rukongai that lies literally outside of the Seireitei's walls. Not one aerial shows these, they literally disregard consistency amongst each other and aren't consistent with contexts.
You're blatantly lying and being misleading if you're honestly saying that pixel scaling is more consistent as well as consistent with context.
This is perhaps the dumbest and most false statement I've heard about Bleach. If this doesn't show a bias and narrative pushing then I don't know what is.
There are no two aerials or visuals of Seireitei that are consistent to one another of the dozens we have. On top of that none of them are consistent nor accurate to the context of Seireitei like the forests, mountains, large buildings/pillars and the Rukongai that lies literally outside of the Seireitei's walls. Not one aerial shows these, they literally disregard consistency amongst each other and aren't consistent with contexts.
You're blatantly lying and being misleading if you're honestly saying that pixel scaling is more consistent as well as consistent with context.
- 114
- 9
someone should really have a interview with dear lord kubo and directly ask him how big Sereitei and Las noche are to finaly get a conclusion for this or else this would go on forever.
- 1,461
- 764
>As far as context and consistancy goes, pixel is better.
@Dr. Fix
This is demonstrably untrue. The size of Seireitei alters in every single artistic representation Kubo gives it throughout Bleach. The only things constant are the statements about both its size and Las Noches' size, both via feats or outright narration/statements.
For statements/feats:
1. Yoruichi statement of 40 days' walking to circumnavigate Seireitei
2. Nel's statement of it taking over 3 days to reach the nearest gate of Las Noches, which further supports the idea of enormous mega-cities in-verse
3. Knowledge that even while flat-out running toward Las Noches, Uryu, Chad, and Ichigo got exhausted before it appeared to diminish in size on the horizon, regardless of their absurdly superhuman durability (Ichigo can fight for several days on-end without exhaustion [Urahara training] or run on a treadmill for hours without fatigue [Visored training]).
4. Knowledge that the Kuchiki manor alone has a large river within its boundaries, thus must be massive to reside as only one of the Four Great Noble Family residencies
5. Knoweldge that the 13th Division Barracks, which is within Seireitei, has mountains within its boundaries
6. Knowledge that to cross the forest within Seireitei at the base of Sokyoku Hill takes 3 nights of hurried travelling (WE DO Knot ALWAYS LOVE YOU novel)
7. Knowledge that to contain the incident from 12th Division Captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi's lab in Fade to Black, Yamamoto orders a quarantine of 200 ri East and West
I would be absurdly surprised if you could provide even 3 pieces of consistent, visually-similar evidence to support the notion that pixel calcs are more contextually solid for Bleach, let alone a full 7 pieces of consistent and contextually-sound evidence to counter what I can come up with just off the top of my head
@Dr. Fix
This is demonstrably untrue. The size of Seireitei alters in every single artistic representation Kubo gives it throughout Bleach. The only things constant are the statements about both its size and Las Noches' size, both via feats or outright narration/statements.
For statements/feats:
1. Yoruichi statement of 40 days' walking to circumnavigate Seireitei
2. Nel's statement of it taking over 3 days to reach the nearest gate of Las Noches, which further supports the idea of enormous mega-cities in-verse
3. Knowledge that even while flat-out running toward Las Noches, Uryu, Chad, and Ichigo got exhausted before it appeared to diminish in size on the horizon, regardless of their absurdly superhuman durability (Ichigo can fight for several days on-end without exhaustion [Urahara training] or run on a treadmill for hours without fatigue [Visored training]).
4. Knowledge that the Kuchiki manor alone has a large river within its boundaries, thus must be massive to reside as only one of the Four Great Noble Family residencies
5. Knoweldge that the 13th Division Barracks, which is within Seireitei, has mountains within its boundaries
6. Knowledge that to cross the forest within Seireitei at the base of Sokyoku Hill takes 3 nights of hurried travelling (WE DO Knot ALWAYS LOVE YOU novel)
7. Knowledge that to contain the incident from 12th Division Captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi's lab in Fade to Black, Yamamoto orders a quarantine of 200 ri East and West
I would be absurdly surprised if you could provide even 3 pieces of consistent, visually-similar evidence to support the notion that pixel calcs are more contextually solid for Bleach, let alone a full 7 pieces of consistent and contextually-sound evidence to counter what I can come up with just off the top of my head
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
