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Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel) (Part 2)

@Vertius, the first feat is irrelevant as it takes place in a different arc. And the second feat/statement applies to Travel Speed only at best.

@Zezu; we're not arbitrarily scaling characters.
 
Finally got around to reading through the posts and Imma agree with Damage on not scaling people if they don't actually have feats.

As for who scales starting with Renji

  • Renji -> True Power Mask + RG Byakuya + Resurrected Gerard + Bazz B + Rukia (Mask scales to no one, Byakuya only fights ├äs and Gerard, Bazz fights trained Toshiro, RG Rukia and Renji who all scale)
  • Resurrected Gerard -> Muken Kenny + Toshiro (both are able to fight and react to Gerard)
  • Kenny -> Gremmy + Resurrected Pernida (both could tag him)
  • Gremmy -> base Yhwach -> all God tiers (Yhwach sealed Gremmy and the other god tiers all slap base Yhwach). We can maybe put FB Bankai in here since he could tag base Yhwach but with how easy Yhwach and Jugo negged him, I personally disagree.
  • Resurrected Pernida -> Mayuri + Nemu (tagged and murdered him)
  • Toshiro -> Bazz B (could tag Bazz but was AP stomped)
  • Rukia -> ├äs (They fought and ├äs was on the verge of tagging her a few times. Timeskip Byakuya doesn't scale as he got negged hard and only harmed a casual ├äs who was letting his Blut Vene do the work)
  • ├äs + Bazz -> all Yama -> Royd + Jugo
  • Jugo -> Uryu -> TS Ichigo -> God tiers
We can all agree on the above (I hope). Now the issue that seems to pop up is Nanao and Soifon.

To tackle them one at a time, Nanao is apparently scaling via Shunsui saying she kept up and Shunsui could fight Lille. My question is what does Lille have to say he scales besides general superiority? Saying that Yhwach brought him because the rest are trash in comparison doesn't work when he was trash to Zero who then got bodied by the rezzed SS that got the work from the Gotei who were having issues with said trash below. Scaling off of TP Mask is circular reasoning and he never even showed better speed when he was rezzed as the only thing he did was shoot Oetsu but would have been blocked by two Zeros if not for his hax. Conclusion: Lille (and thus Shunsui and Nanao) doesn't scale cuz he has no feats to do so.

Onto Soifon, she has statements for being one of if not the fastest Captain ..... from a previous arc. This means nothing at all here. We can safely assume she would still be the fastest as of the start of TYBW but a bunch of people go and do training where we know she trained Mukyu Shunko and was shown to blitz BG-9 but his only feats is keeping up with pre training Soifon who retains her previous key's speed due to no feats. Omaeda's scaling is being able to get Soifon away from BG-9 so he is irrelevant to this. Conclusion: Soifon, BG-9 and Omaeda don't scale to anyone but themselves.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
What chapters do the feats/statements happen in? I'll reread them to properly weigh in.
For Sui-Feng if she doesn't have scaling she just doesn't have scaling. Sucks but its what happens sometimes.
Click to expand...
The Soul Society feat is in chapter 154. And in response to damage, I'm of the opinion that it is still relevent because to my knowledge, it is not once even hinted at the Shunsui grew stronger through training or otherwise throughout the whole manga, thus SS Kyoraku would be identical to TYBW kyoraku in stregth and spead etc... thus scaling for Nanao would still apply.

The second feat and statement is in chapter 645.
 
@AnonymousBlank; that post is looking pretty good.

Though I should only rate Bazz-B as possibly scaling to Renji as their fight was entirely offscreen after Bazz-B launched a big attack that we don't see the results of.
 
Vertius x said:
The Soul Society feat is in chapter 154. And in response to damage, I'm of the opinion that it is still relevent because to my knowledge, it is not once even hinted at the Shunsui grew stronger through training or otherwise throughout the whole manga, thus SS Kyoraku would be identical to TYBW kyoraku in stregth and spead etc... thus scaling for Nanao would still apply.
Click to expand...

The first feat isn't valid scaling imo, but the second one is.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Vertius x said:
The Soul Society feat is in chapter 154. And in response to damage, I'm of the opinion that it is still relevent because to my knowledge, it is not once even hinted at the Shunsui grew stronger through training or otherwise throughout the whole manga, thus SS Kyoraku would be identical to TYBW kyoraku in stregth and spead etc... thus scaling for Nanao would still apply.
Click to expand...
The first feat isn't valid scaling imo, but the second one is.
Click to expand...
Thanks for giving it a read through.
 
Damage3245 said:
@AnonymousBlank; that post is looking pretty good.

Though I should only rate Bazz-B as possibly scaling to Renji as their fight was entirely offscreen after Bazz-B launched a big attack that we don't see the results of.
Click to expand...
I would agree if that was all Bazz had but he is able to fight Toshiro who can keep up with Gerard (just couldn't do anything with his trash tier AP) and even saved Äs (and the other whose name escapes me rn) from Yama where the others couldn't even react. He should get likely at minimum imo if people are unsure he should fully scale.
 
As for AP I'm fine with the suggested stuff. Speed has already been covered right, or does that still need input?
 
Hmmm, I'll need to re-read the As Nodt fight. I'm not sure about them scaling.

Just re-read it. Shikai Rukia was blitzing As Nodt. As Nodt should only scale in Vollstandig.
 
So here are some questions i have got, doesn't kyoraku easily escaping from mimihagis's stream from a very short distance scale him to FTL (Chapter 622 Page 8)

And doesn't lille crossing the distance between SKP/SS in a far less time than ichigo did scale him atleast to that ichigo?
 
sorry,but if you somehow end up scaling Mayuri (one of the weakest captains in pure combat) to FTL, then there is no way Soifon doesn't get FTL

no only that,but Zombie Toshiro was strong and fast enough to be a threat to Mayuri

and with Zombie Toshiro scaling to FTL Mayuri, everyone and their mother would scale to FTL

either Mayuri isn't FTL, or the majority is
 
sorry,but if you somehow end up scaling Mayuri (one of the weakest captains in pure combat) to FTL, then there is no way Soifon doesn't get FTL

no only that,but Zombie Toshiro was strong and fast enough to be a threat to Mayuri

and with Zombie Toshiro scaling to FTL Mayuri, everyone and their mother would scale to FTL

either Mayuri isn't FTL, or the majority is

Technically Mayuri made equipment to be able to fight Zombie Toshiro. Although he was able to outmaneuver Pernida who scaled to Kenpachi so...
 
iirc,Mayuri even fought bunch of femritters (Giselle,Zombie Bambi) along with Zombie Kensei and Rose

and even if someone says "but he made Hirenkyaku Boots" then any Quincy with Hirenkyaku (i.e. all of them) would scale to FTL
 
the boots was only for the area they changed anyways so shinigamis couldnt use rei iirc too good
 
@MetalGearRaiden, that would be assuming that all Hirenkyaku is the same speed which can't be true.
 
@MetalGear

Everything you said that pertains to scaling was already taken into account in my post. The only Toshiro I mentioned is post training Toshiro which means any feats that are greater than his timeskip self are validated. You also seem to have missed the fact that the people I listed above have this thing called feats for as reasoning for why they scale rather than the opinions that everyone is bringing for Soifon besides that one travel speed feat years later.

Mayuri negged tf outta Zombie Shiro who everyone does not scale to regardless. The moment Mayuri left his lab, every enemy (bar one) he met and saw got slapped by his prep. The Explode got stonewalled, The Zombie got reversed, the zombies got bodied by his own zombies and stolen. Only issue was Pernida who stole Kenny's stats and Mayuri's Bankai powers but still got screwed by Nemu's cell division.
 
Feats aren't all that matter though, why do you think scaling exists lol? The issue with yours and Damage's method of scaling is things like the Soul King now being slower than Nanao and Omaeda, this is why people can scale on superiority alone. An example, if Iruka had the best speed feat in Naruto and I said Madara shouldn't scale above Iruka because he never fought him I'd be lynched by Naruto fans. Iruka is obviously much much slower than Madara, therefore any feat he's done Madara should scale to and above, it's just common logic.

This is literally listed on the scaling page for this site.

"As without powerscaling and going purely by feats, many characters would end up being "Unknown" in stats or be lowballed to absurd extents. Such as Whis being weaker than Piccolo going by pure feats. Monster Garou being weaker than Genos. Or characters who have consistently been said and shown to have power on par with Planet level beings be rated as Wall level."
 
@Purgy; nobody said that that the Soul King would be slower than Nanao or Omaeda.

Also I'd argue that being shown to consistently be on par with Planet level beings does count as a "feat" towards being Planet level. Feats aren't solely having a calc by yourself, but being shown to match the calc belonging to someone else through your feats.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Purgy; nobody said that that the Soul King would be slower than Nanao or Omaeda.
Click to expand...
You said he should be rated as unknown, which is pretty much him being classed as slower than Nanao and Omaeda on this wiki in my opinion. He'd be unuseable in most battles because he has no speed rating. The quote of the scaling page literally wants characters to scale so that they don't get an unknown rating for that very reason.
 
I don't know you could possibly interpret Unknown to be slower than a Known speed rating.

Let's be honest, most battles are speed equalized anyway. But this is irrelevant to this thread.
 
If you wish to scale to feats only as opposed to basic powerscaling the wiki uses, I advise you to take a look at any profile belonging to the gods of destructions off DBS.

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Sidra should be faster than Super Saiyan Blue Goku and roughly in the same league as the likes of Beerus and Champa)

Speed: Massively FTL+ (As a God of Destruction, he should be comparable to Beerus and Champa)

Speed: Massively FTL+ via powerscaling (As a God of Destruction he should not be slower than Beerus or Champa)
 
@Sigurd; those are just badly written profiles. Beerus and Champa have personally fought all of the other Gods of Destruction in a tournament. They don't need to be written as "should be comparable" when they have actually all fought each other.
 
Wouldn't be surprised at that.

Can you focus on any specific problems on AnonymousBlank's suggestions?
 
@Purgy

False equivalence. If Iruka undergoes a training arc and comes out with the best speed feat in the verse, no one scales to him unless it's shown. If he had the best feat without such then Madara would scale above him by virtue of the fact that there is an actual scaling chain that supports it.

You are strawmanning me. I said the people I listed who scale have feats to scale. Not that they have calced feats like you imply. Like Damage said, a feat against people of that level is a feat itself. You are trying to twist my words and act like I am ignoring the very basics of power scaling.

Bring literally anything that isn't an opinion for why Soifon should scale. A relevant statement, an actual feat, something, anything, and your words will hold weight because all you are doing is whining about "muh ranks".
 
sorry,but if you somehow end up scaling Mayuri (one of the weakest captains in pure combat) to FTL, then there is no way Soifon doesn't get FTL

no only that,but Zombie Toshiro was strong and fast enough to be a threat to Mayuri

and with Zombie Toshiro scaling to FTL Mayuri, everyone and their mother would scale to FTL

either Mayuri isn't FTL, or the majority is

Mayuri needed to use a special device to keep up with unreleased Zombie Toshiro in terms of combat speed. He was able to blitz Mayuri upon entering Bankai, and then later on went on to fight God Gerard solo for a bit after Gerard took out Rukia, Renji, the Vizards.....basically everyone besides Byakuya. Post training Toshiro was pretty high tier. He just looked really bad because his first opponent post training was literally his elemental weakness. Toshiro never got blitzed or overpowered by Bazz B outside if his heat melting his ice. Not many people would scale to post training Toshiro. Either way Mayuri and Toshiro have their own FTL scaling separate from each other anyways
 
Damage3245 said:
@Sigurd; those are just badly written profiles. Beerus and Champa have personally fought all of the other Gods of Destruction in a tournament. They don't need to be written as "should be comparable" when they have actually all fought each other.
Click to expand...
That's only in the manga though which isn't cross-scaled, or are you talking about them testing the arena in the anime?
 
AnonymousBlank said:
@Purgy
False equivalence. If Iruka undergoes a training arc and comes out with the best speed feat in the verse, no one scales to him unless it's shown. If he had the best feat without such then Madara would scale above him by virtue of the fact that there is an actual scaling chain that supports it.

You are strawmanning me. I said the people I listed who scale have feats to scale. Not that they have calced feats like you imply. Like Damage said, a feat against people of that level is a feat itself. You are trying to twist my words and act like I am ignoring the very basics of power scaling.

Bring literally anything that isn't an opinion for why Soifon should scale. A relevant statement, an actual feat, something, anything, and your words will hold weight because all you are doing is whining about "muh ranks".
Click to expand...
Ridiculous. I guess Mask is also a God tier now since he fought and was overpowering Shikai Renji. Renji having trained doesn't even matter, his fight with Mask clearly showed his training didn't just make him the fastest in the verse hence he shouldn't be treated as such. Mask isn't even top 5 Sternritters, it's logical to assume if he could keep up with Renji then many other characters can aswell.

You misunderstand, my post wasn't solely directed at you, it was directed at yours and Damage's scaling together, so no, I wasn't "strawmanning" you, if you feel something wasn't intended to counter one of your arguments, chances are it wasn't aimed at one of your arguments.

I never even mentioned Soifon once, who's strawmanning again? My issue is with Damages (and by extension yours) scaling in general, it has nothing to do with Soifon, it has to do with only scaling people who have actually fought each other, it makes sense in theory but it falls apart when you actually look into it and it goes against the standard scaling on this wiki.
 
Well, it's doubtful that Omaeda knows how fast Yama truly is.

And I don't think that that Yama should be scaling to FTL.

As Nodt and Bazz-B would only be scaling to FTL in their Vollstandig forms. Whereas they attacked Yama in base, so Yama would only scale to their base forms.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Sigurd; those are just badly written profiles. Beerus and Champa have personally fought all of the other Gods of Destruction in a tournament. They don't need to be written as "should be comparable" when they have actually all fought each other.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing those ratings were added before those feats happened and just haven't been changed, atleast that's what the edit history shows. So this proves it's fine to scale like that, if you have an issue with it then you need to go about making changes to how we scale on this wiki in general, not in this specific CRT.
 
@Purgy; I can't fix every verse at the same time. Don't use the flaws of other verses as an excuse for why Bleach should do the same.
 
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